K&c Armor: Wrong Scale? (1 Viewer)

[damian]

I don't know but maybe it should be a Fosters larger comming from Oz

 

[Old Tanker 7.5]

Its the scale issue with the vehicles and the price increases for Marketgarden all combined thats creating a bit of frustration. The paint is great of course but the sculpts seems to be a bit lackluster with the new releases. I just think its perhgaps time to branch off into some other great products, Collectors Showcase, HB and a few others, I've got enough K&C for now.

 

[Beaufighter]

I don't know but maybe it should be a Fosters larger comming from Oz

I had a few Aussie room mates whilst living along the California coast in the 90s. As I remember from them, our (U.S.) equivalent to FOSTERS is Colt 45 and or Old English 800...so we better pick out something a bit better! I also learned that rooting for a "Team" has a whole other meaning

 

[Louis Badolato]

Two points: first with regard to the scale of the new jeeps, John was referring to the earlier Arnhem Jeeps from the original Arnhem series (which was 1:32 scale). The new jeeps are noticably larger (I set them next to each original jeeps, and they are longer, wider and taller). Additionally, with regard to the Tiger tank, it is noted that the deck was six feet tall (and accordingly should be at least the height of the figures). If you look at the photos of the new Tunesian Tiger, the deck appears to be as tall as (if not slightly taller than) the figures. Here's a link to the photo: https://www.kingandcountry.com/Photos/AK/AK039(SL)(L).jpg

 

[OzDigger]

Two points: first with regard to the scale of the new jeeps, John was referring to the earlier Arnhem Jeeps from the original Arnhem series (which was 1:32 scale). The new jeeps are noticably larger (I set them next to each original jeeps, and they are longer, wider and taller). Additionally, with regard to the Tiger tank, it is noted that the deck was six feet tall (and accordingly should be at least the height of the figures). If you look at the photos of the new Tunesian Tiger, the deck appears to be as tall as (if not slightly taller than) the figures. Here's a link to the photo: https://www.kingandcountry.com/Photos/AK/AK039(SL)(L).jpg

I don't have any K & C Jeeps at present, but I understood there was still some variation in sizes amongst those issued relatively recently. Perhaps someone with several recent examples could take a few pics of them lined up.

I have no arguement with the new Tunisian Tiger as it is clear that it is the correct 1/30 scale. Without doubt it's the best tank that K & C have produced. However, I'll be waiting to see the Honour Bound example(s) before I part with US $199 for the K & C version because HB still have the edge on them imo

The scale problem is with most of the earlier K & C tanks including the Panthers, King Tigers, and Tigers, including the Winter Tiger as well as the Wittman Tiger that Old Tanker was particularly upset about. Btw I do have the Honour Bound (Barkmann) Panther and it does overshadow the K & C armoured vehicles I have.

 

[OzDigger]

I had a few Aussie room mates whilst living along the California coast in the 90s. As I remember from them, our (U.S.) equivalent to FOSTERS is Colt 45 and or Old English 800...so we better pick out something a bit better! I also learned that rooting for a "Team" has a whole other meaning

Yep, a true Aussie wouldn't touch a Fosters

Btw, I don't think it's unusual for Aussie cheersquad members to root for their team in whatever way they think is best.

 

[redhugh]

I have no arguement with the new Tunisian Tiger as it is clear that it is the correct 1/30 scale. Without doubt it's the best tank that K & C have produced. However, I'll be waiting to see the Honour Bound example(s) before I part with US $199 for the K & C version because HB still have the edge on them imo
The scale problem is with most of the earlier K & C tanks including the Panthers, King Tigers, and Tigers, including the Winter Tiger as well as the Wittman Tiger that Old Tanker was particularly upset about. Btw I do have the Honour Bound (Barkmann) Panther and it does overshadow the K & C armoured vehicles I have.

well I have the K&C summer panther and the HB jadpanther and there is no difference in the height of the decking nor no noticable difference in scale......

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I mainly collect figures, so I am a stickler about figure accuracy more than tank/vehicle accuracy. Since this hobby is called "toy soldiers", not "toy tanks", I think the focus of toy soldier companies should remain on turning out the best and most realistic figures possible, which surpass anything available in the 1/32 modelling world in my opinion. In my collection, armor is there to compliment and provide an artistic backdrop for the figures so it’s not the absolute end of the world if scale isn’t 100%. Because I can use pieces as background display to fool the eye, I remain first and foremost concerned about historical accuracy (does the armor LOOK right by itself and are equipment/uniforms used in the right period etc.) and the SIZE/scale of those items is of secondary concern. Now in cases where figures have to actually ride in vehicles like jeeps, then scale is absolutely critical, but it’s my impression that K&C has generally done a better job on the scale of those items because it was more obvious if they were too small.

Nevertheless, the fact remains K&C has misjudged scale on several of their tanks in the past and I sincerely hope they and all the manufacturers continue taking scale more seriously as this hobby progresses. We can only benefit if they do. Maybe when word of the scale problem with the old sets becomes more well known it will help lower some of their ebay prices? Probably not though – old K&C sets seem to have no problem maintaining their value as collectibles, scale models or not.

 

[OzDigger]

well I have the K&C summer panther and the HB jadpanther and there is no difference in the height of the decking nor no noticable difference in scale......

Well that's not surprising because the Jagdpanther is a bit smaller than a Panther. It should also be noted that the crew figures with K & C armoured vehicle sets are sometimes in 1/32 scale rather than 1/30.

Here's a pic demonstrating the size of the Panther against a six foot tall soldier.

 

[redhugh]

Well that's not surprising because the Jagdpanther is a bit smaller than a Panther.

The Jagdpanther had the same chassis as the panther hence the lower hull is the same size on both tanks and there's no difference between the lower hull on the K&C summer panther and the HB jagdpanther

 

[Rob]

I mainly collect figures, so I am a stickler about figure accuracy more than tank/vehicle accuracy. Since this hobby is called "toy soldiers", not "toy tanks", I think the focus of toy soldier companies should remain on turning out the best and most realistic figures possible, which surpass anything available in the 1/32 modelling world in my opinion. In my collection, armor is there to compliment and provide an artistic backdrop for the figures so it’s not the absolute end of the world if scale isn’t 100%. Because I can use pieces as background display to fool the eye, I remain first and foremost concerned about historical accuracy (does the armor LOOK right by itself and are equipment/uniforms used in the right period etc.) and the SIZE/scale of those items is of secondary concern. Now in cases where figures have to actually ride in vehicles like jeeps, then scale is absolutely critical, but it’s my impression that K&C has generally done a better job on the scale of those items because it was more obvious if they were too small.

Nevertheless, the fact remains K&C has misjudged scale on several of their tanks in the past and I sincerely hope they and all the manufacturers continue taking scale more seriously as this hobby progresses. We can only benefit if they do. Maybe when word of the scale problem with the old sets becomes more well known it will help lower some of their ebay prices? Probably not though – old K&C sets seem to have no problem maintaining their value as collectibles, scale models or not.

Must say i'd not thought of it like that.When i discovered K&C i just went for the Figures and Tanks in excactly the same way.Both as important as the other.But as you say it is called 'Toy soldiers' and not 'Toy soldiers and Tanks'.So i guess i maybe in a minority here in collecting both as avidly.Do many others here collect both?.

Rob

 

[OzDigger]

The Jagdpanther had the same chassis as the panther hence the lower hull is the same size on both tanks and there's no difference between the lower hull on the K&C summer panther and the HB jagdpanther

The Jagdpanther is shorter and lower overall but I have to admit the decks look close in most pics of the actual vehicles. Well, I'm ok with admitting when I'm wrong but as I have neither model I'd want to see pictures of them together (with a standard 1/30 size K & C figure) before I got to carried away

Btw, I have seen the Summer Panther in the flesh and it did look a bit small imo. As for it's track decorations - don't go there

 

[redhugh]

The Jagdpanther is shorter and lower overall but I have to admit the decks look close in most pics of the actual vehicles. Well, I'm ok with admitting when I'm wrong but as I have neither model I'd want to see pictures of them together (with a standard 1/30 size K & C figure) before I got to carried away

will post a photo of both together when I figure out the intricacies of posting photo's

 

[OzDigger]

Must say i'd not thought of it like that.When i discovered K&C i just went for the Figures and Tanks in excactly the same way.Both as important as the other.But as you say it is called 'Toy soldiers' and not 'Toy soldiers and Tanks'.So i guess i maybe in a minority here in collecting both as avidly.Do many others here collect both?.

Rob

It's hard to argue with Rob and CS. And in fact it was certainly the K & C figures that attracted me rather than their tanks which looked like rock garden ornaments as far as I'm concerned - albeit well painted

In fact if you were only collecting ready built model tanks you would most likely just collect Forces of Valour models - as MOST do

 

[OzDigger]

will post a photo of both together when I figure out the intricacies of posting photo's

I use this website to store my pics for forum posting: http://imageshack.us/

 

[Wraith]

Must say i'd not thought of it like that.When i discovered K&C i just went for the Figures and Tanks in excactly the same way.Both as important as the other.But as you say it is called 'Toy soldiers' and not 'Toy soldiers and Tanks'.So i guess i maybe in a minority here in collecting both as avidly.Do many others here collect both?.

Rob

I will go for the figures over the tanks. My transition to K&C et.al. was from toy soldiers, with tanks coming later. I still prefer to generally collect figures over the vehicles.

Simon

 

[redhugh]

I use this website to store my pics for forum posting: http://imageshack.us/

will give it a go thanks

 

[damian]

It would be nice if some members posted some pictures side by side of K and C and other products as a comparison. My head spins from all these measurements and scales that are thrown around. There were some pictures of the FOV and K and C Stuart tanks that were put up previoulsy. This would help.
Regards
Damian

 

[Jim5615]

Must say i'd not thought of it like that.When i discovered K&C i just went for the Figures and Tanks in excactly the same way.Both as important as the other.But as you say it is called 'Toy soldiers' and not 'Toy soldiers and Tanks'.So i guess i maybe in a minority here in collecting both as avidly.Do many others here collect both?.

Rob

Rob,

I think the hobby has evolved into toy soldiers and tanks. Scale was never important in the glossy days, so long as all the soldiers were the same height. However, if todays goal is realism, then scale is part of that. As I've said before, Andy could scale down before, because there were no other 1/30 scale folks out there - today he has competition. When I set things up on the shelf I don't get out the ruler, but I am aware of the scale difference, so I place soldiers away from the tanks. I think all the King and Country vehicles from the past are works of art, but I also believe that improvements in the vehicle scale can only make things better.

 

[Combat]

I don't care too much if the scale is off a bit, but I also don't understand why it is so difficult to make it accurate or why the scale tends to vary from tank to tank. Just divide the actual size by 30 and make it that size.