k&c price increase (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter blue max
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sami7777@hotmail.co.uk
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I'll probably end up sucking it up and continuing because the thought of selling them on Ebay actually makes me feel sick.
Has the price increase happened yet or can I just go ahead and order the rest of my collection right now and save some money?
Fitzgibbon
Master Sergeant
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Good show. Well done.:salute::
Spanish soldier
Sergeant First Class
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K & C UK close not to sell and want to raise prices, lack common sense
Francisco
Francisco
buffalohibernia
Private 1st Class
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It is somewhat disappointing to here of the cancellation of the Collectors Club but now the price increases? It would have been more palatable if the increased prices were applied just to the new/up coming items. I don't understand why it should apply to the figures that have already been made and are the shelves.
Buffalohibernia
Buffalohibernia
mikemiller1955
Lieutenant General
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I don't mind the price increase...it's inevitable...but the old stock that has been sitting on my dealers shelf for years...now he wipes the dust off it and it's price has increased...I can't grasp that concept as fair...can anyone explain that?
Running-Buddy
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Most of you collectors are my age group and remember the 1970's. When you would go to a grocery store and there would be 3 or 4 price labels on goods that were sitting on the shelf because of inflation and intrest rates. This was before barcoding. The reason they would keep marking up the goods on the shelf is because they are trying to cover themselves with replacement costs for the same goods to keep the shelves stocked and not dip into their pocketbook. SAME THING HERE. The problem is that the manufacrturing in China wants to raise their bottom line and it gets passed down to the end user. Lets bring back manufacturing to the good ole U. S. of A.
Enough said
Howard Hulsebosch
Buck Private(DO YOU HEAR ME)
Fitzgibbon
Master Sergeant
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You probably hit right at the heart of what most find confusing. As a painter of figurines and Wargames pieces long before enjoying these finished products, my understanding of the change that has been ongoing runs like this: What attracted me to passively collect finished products was that I couldn't paint them for the price at which they were supplied. To make a reasonable living, the price here is $1.00 per mm, which means you supply the casting and get your 60mm figure painted for $60.00 making a 60mm figure worth in the vicinity of $80.00 if you can get a casting for $20.00. Now, I get around $$40.00 an hour in my full time job, so to match that wage, I'd need to finish a figure in an hour-and-a-half. I know that I cannot paint to the market standard in that time so for me it was a no-brainer when I could get an intricately detailed Scottish kilted figure or a finely detailed bandsman for $32.00.
While wages in the West have stagnated over the last several years, the Chinese economy has been experiencing remarkable growth and has been carrying much of the West on the spin-off from that growth. Wage growth is a natural part of that standout success. It is great that our collector friends in China can now participate in the hobby as a result of their Labour. Who would begrudge them that? None of us I'm sure.
What was a no-brainer at $32.00 is still a no-brainer at even $60.00 (and we aren't close yet). But as my wage hadn't gone up relative to the rise, I can afford fewer figures. That's a matter of simple mathematics.
Now to the matter of raising prices on current stock; this is where so much acrimony has snuck into the discussion. It appears to be a case of trust or rather distrust. The cost increases relate to future production runs be it for new designs or reruns of old designs. There has been no intent to jack up the price of inventory. But let me pose this question for those who make a living on the secondary market. A Cuirassier released 5 years ago at $79.00 now listed on eBay at $205.00 can be reproduced by a manufacturer at $139.00. Which of these prices is hard on a collector? I'd have to say that I'd love to be able to keep collecting at $79.00 ad nauseam but that's hardly realistic. I would however prefer to get it for $139.00 rather than $205.00.
My next question is how do you distinguish between a shelf item and a rerun of the same figure? Cannot, right? So at what point does the new price cut in to make it fair for everyone?
I'm sure everyone appreciates the dilemma.
I still wouldn't get out of bed to paint at less than $60.00 for a foot figure and that would be hard work. I'm going to keep buying bandsmen because I appreciate the skill and the Labour that goes into their production.
Fitzgibbon
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Hi Mike, if it's been sitting on a shelf for years at the old price, no-one wants it, right? Putting a higher price on such an item is not going to change the stagnant desire. These are not the type of Items that are affected. You'd find these on the other 26 pages and no-one is ever going to do another production run. They will be retired and find their way onto eBay at some ridiculous secondary market price. And I'm sure you trust your dealer better than that. We all do when it comes down to it.
mikemiller1955
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Howard...
I understand what you're saying...
but I don't agree...
but it's a slap in the face to see that same can that's been on the store shelf for a year that nobody ever bought...
and now to justify margins on new inventory...the old can went up in price...
I would think the new figure price increase would have already secured the manufacturer's margin...
this is like the double whammy...
I understand the new increase...
I just don't understand the old increase...
the only one profiting from the old increase is the dealer...not the manufacturer...
my dealers old inventory immediately increases in value on July 1st with this increase...
I would rather they hold the price on already produced and distributed merchandise...
and don't mind them raising new product...
jager7080
Sergeant First Class
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It's just a ploy to get you to reconsider buying an item you were either on the fence about or were not concerned about...simple psychology...
Now that prices are going up , the hope is everybody will make a grab @ that left over merchandise because...oh no , it is going up in price...!!
better hurry up & buy it before the deadline...
Fitzgibbon
Master Sergeant
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There you go ...you get the figure you wanted at the fair price you wanted yo pay all along. And the unsold product collects more dust and keeps secondary market prices at bay. Voila!
PanzerAce1944
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I would assume that the original purpose to have these figures made in China was to take advantage of low production costs. The Chinese seem to be increasing production costs now on an
annual basis. At this rate it could be time to ship the show somewhere else, such as the U.S. I am sure there are a ton of talented 18 year olds here willing to paint figures for $8.00 - $10.00 an
hour. The Chinese Factories appear not what they used to be ! Prices keep going Up....up.....up ! Only K&C knows the bottom line on the real practicality of keeping production in
Hong Kong. They have been around since 1984 and obviously must be doing something right, as out of Business companies such as 21st century Toys, Honor Bound, are no longer around,
with most recently Figarti basically being on the chopping block waiting for someone to make some financial moves to get things going again. In all honesty I think raising prices on sets that were
already made a year or more ago and already had a given set Retail price does irritate many collector's. If I were to take a guess as to why another price bump, could the constant monthly mass
releases "Dispatches" be causing a back up of Warehouse Inventory, thus creating increased overhead costs ???
Wayne
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Running-Buddy
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Mike,
Don't get me wrong, I hate price increase as much as the next guy but their are 2 things going on here. First the Chinese are trying to raise their standard of living thus the raise in cost of goods exported. Second we have to make our dealers profitable. Sooooo, where is the common ground? In the end our love of toy soldiers will ultimately win I hope. The only thing that still bothers me is doing away with the Collectors Club. That is the give back to the loyal customer base.
Howard Hulsebosch
(DO YOU HEAR ME)
ChrisTay
Staff Sergeant
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We seem to be flogging a dead horse.
The only thing that ever goes down in prices are electronics and mass produced items. And these are easy to transplant to another lower cost country. Unless there is a lower cost country to produce miniature toy soldiers of this quality and a brand willing to give it a try to set it up there, don't expect much of a change.
Look at guitars, the ultra high end hand mades are made in USA and Japan. Mass produced mid-ends to low-ends are built in China, Korea and Mexico. Even lower end ones are made in Indonesia and Vietnam.
Perhaps, a miniature toy soldier brand could start up a "value line" production somewhere else in Vietnam, Philippines or Thailand and produce the add-on sets of an acceptable quality. And allow for the infrastructure of sculptors and artists to develop. Otherwise, I think nothing is ever going to change and we are just riding the ascent of the Chinese dragon. (Remember the Sting song "The Russians love their children too", well the Chinese also love their children too and they want to make more as well.)
Rgds,Chris
The only thing that ever goes down in prices are electronics and mass produced items. And these are easy to transplant to another lower cost country. Unless there is a lower cost country to produce miniature toy soldiers of this quality and a brand willing to give it a try to set it up there, don't expect much of a change.
Look at guitars, the ultra high end hand mades are made in USA and Japan. Mass produced mid-ends to low-ends are built in China, Korea and Mexico. Even lower end ones are made in Indonesia and Vietnam.
Perhaps, a miniature toy soldier brand could start up a "value line" production somewhere else in Vietnam, Philippines or Thailand and produce the add-on sets of an acceptable quality. And allow for the infrastructure of sculptors and artists to develop. Otherwise, I think nothing is ever going to change and we are just riding the ascent of the Chinese dragon. (Remember the Sting song "The Russians love their children too", well the Chinese also love their children too and they want to make more as well.)
Rgds,Chris
The Military Workshop
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I can see your point from collectors point of view.
However look at it from dealers point of view. Each dealer has varying amounts of stock in hand so one could have several of an item and another may have none on 1 July. If all dealers had to note which stock was from the old price and which from the new we would go nuts (if not already {sm4}). Plus in a large market like USA there would be chaos in the pricing as some dealers use new prices but others sell old stock at much cheaper prices. Who would know at what point the new stock started arriving.
In Australia we get price variations all the time due to the exchange rate. I remember fondly
) the collector who went around shop and was expecting to pay the exchange rate for items based on when I bought it. Naturally his theory only applied if it meant he was going to pay less not more ! As Chris upthread mentioned if a dealer is going to replace his stock he is going to have to pay a higher cost after 1 July. It is true dealers will benefit from an increased value in some stock if those items subsequently sell. However don't begrudge dealers making a few extra dollars. When these threads sprout up you would think the dealers are leading a life of luxury based on incredible marks ups. Far from it. Strange how nobody seems to realise that it is the mark ups that pay : dealer and staff income, rent (mine goes up on 1 July every year), transport, electricity and phone, shop fittings / cabinets etc, free postage to collector if offered, taxes, packing materials, bank fees when a collector uses a credit card, advertising and signage (mine needs replacing and going to cost thousands). Advertising alone to get the new collectors can be a big spend for often little return and I speak from the experience of having advertised in about 30 different publications over last 15 years. Another factor collectors don't consider is the money involved in holding stock so the collector has a choice. At this point I hope all readers have reached for their tissue box ^&grin
As I have said before the increases only apply to 700 odd items out of nearly 2,000. Most of those are bringing similar items to be in line at $45 price point. If the figure has been out for 2 years in my experience most regular collectors who wanted that item would have got it by now. It is where there are big increases that people should be concerned (ie. Kogu mentioned he collects PnM). However whilst there are genuine concerns about price rises from genuine collectors like yourself it is often the case that some of those commenting about KC pricing don't even collect K&C or seem to be anti the brand.
IMHO and I declare my obvious bias in this debate {sm4}
Jack
Major
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For UK purchasers, hasn't there been a 10% REDUCTION in prices this morning?
Would it be a ten percent increase?
Horus
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BBC were saying pound dropped to low last seen in 1985 against the USD, no doubt as will other currencies so prices will have gone up by some percentage today.
Not a good day for UK customers to order online from outside the UK.
And no doubt figures already in the post will attract higher import dues as well.
Steve
Not a good day for UK customers to order online from outside the UK.
And no doubt figures already in the post will attract higher import dues as well.
Steve