K&C style. (1 Viewer)

[Simpson & his donkey.]

Hi guy's this is not I hope going to be a bad thread but K&C has it's own style and I really like the soldiers but the AFV have to lift there game a bit. The other makers are doing some really great things with there AFV's so do you think the toy soldier leader will improve with it's tanks. K&C seem to move to improve to meet it's competitors so how do you think they can improve on there AFV's . I think the tracks are first on the hit list for improvement . What do you guy's think. Chris.{sm4}

 

[Desertkiwi]

Hi guy's this is not I hope going to be a bad thread but K&C has it's own style and I really like the soldiers but the AFV have to lift there game a bit. The other makers are doing some really great things with there AFV's so do you think the toy soldier leader will improve with it's tanks. K&C seem to move to improve to meet it's competitors so how do you think they can improve on there AFV's . I think the tracks are first on the hit list for improvement . What do you guy's think. Chris.{sm4}

Chris, I think the whole track debate has been done to death over the past couple of years and has been the source of a great deal of discussion and the cause of numerous deletions and tension among members. Track issue aside, I'd be interested to hear what else you think K&C can improve on with their AV's?

Cheers.

 

[wayne556517]

I agree Simmo if they fix there tracks the AFV,s will be right up there simple as that but its there style so as we know it isn't going to change so the next thing they can do is have straight antennas.............^&grin

 

[arnhem44mad]

The Panzer IV with non move able cannon was a surprise for me.

Scott

 

[cnq]

Are the hatches open & close on recent K&C tanks ?

 

[uksubs]

Hi guy's this is not I hope going to be a bad thread but K&C has it's own style and I really like the soldiers but the AFV have to lift there game a bit. The other makers are doing some really great things with there AFV's so do you think the toy soldier leader will improve with it's tanks. K&C seem to move to improve to meet it's competitors so how do you think they can improve on there AFV's . I think the tracks are first on the hit list for improvement . What do you guy's think. Chris.{sm4}

Don't think they need to improve there stuff Chris as Kc armour seem to sell well , but personal it not for me as you can get better detail for the same money if not less

 

[DM101]

Are the hatches open & close on recent K&C tanks ?

Yes agreed on this, the hatches should be able to open and close if possible - else make more fixed open hatches so we can fill the tank crews ourselves ^&grin

 

[WesternOutlaw]

I'm new to the entire track debate (in fact did not realize there was one). I own a Desert Tiger by K&C, a Panzerjager, and a German Halftrack. I think the quality of all three vehicles is superb. Heavy, finely detailed, and never noticed any issue with the tracks. I also own a Tiger by Collector's Showcase. Decals have air bubbles and unintentional color variations of different pieces are some of the issues. I never encountered this with K&C.

For me, the only suggestion I have for K&C in regard to its AFVs and other vehicles is just making more moving and/or removable parts. Hatches that open, guns that can be removed, and always more accessories add extra value. For $19.99, one can buy a die cast metal automobile model that has exquisite engine and interior detail with hoods, trunks, and doors that open. Can some of these features be incorporated into military toy soldier vehicles? If K&C material lends itself to some of the same features, it would be fantastic (providing it does not become a plastic model which is another debate).

At the same time, I love K&C and am happy with the quality and detailing of their vehicles.

Interesting topic; I look forward to reading some of the other thoughts on the subject.

 

[cnq]

Yes agreed on this, the hatches should be able to open and close if possible - else make more fixed open hatches so we can fill the tank crews ourselves ^&grin

The hatches should not be fixed in one place for the money these armors are selling for IMO....

 

[uksubs]

Would be interesting to compare the latest figarti Tiger with a KC version and wonder if someone could take some photos of them both side by side ?

 

[Hunter Rose]

Would be interesting to compare the latest figarti Tiger with a KC version and wonder if someone could take some photos of them both side by side ?

This is an excellent point and was going to be the crux of my response. I've got the KC Kursk Tiger and Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger, I also have the Normandy Jagdpanther and Winter Panzer IV from KC so I've got a pretty good idea of the current quality of KC tanks. That KC quality level bing very good. Honestly, KC is producing the best vehicles it has ever released IMO. The detail on the Panzer IV and Jagdpanther's tracks are very good (within the limitations of the polystone KC design) as are the detailing on the tanks themselves. Both paint jobs are excellent as well.

That being said, Figarti tanks ARE more detailed. The Wittman Tiger has better tracks with hollowed out drive sprockets, individual wheels, and more detailed track links. It also has wire mesh engine covers, a removeable cupola mounted machinegun, a commanders cupola hatch that opens and closes, and 3 wire antennas. Paint job is equal to KC's recent tanks IMO.

It used to be you had to pay more for this extra detail, but with KC tank prices climbing in recent years, and Figarti trying to reduce prices by releasing larger numbers of models with their current release of Tigers, the prices are pretty much the same.

The most current KC Tigers (Grey and Winter) cost $215 with one 1/2 body commander figure. KC charges $25 for a half body commander figure (based off pricing of their 2 Figure Tank Commanders Sets) so the Tiger itself costs $190 retail. The Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger costs $169 with no figures. The other two recent Figarti Tigers, Winter and 222 Normandy cost $189, but based off pictures their paint jobs are more detailed/weathered than the 007 Wittman Tiger.

Thus, with the Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger I can currently get a Tiger that is more detailed, with an equal paint job to KC tanks for $20 cheaper, or with the Figarti Winter/222 Tiger I can get a Tiger that is more detailed and has a better paint job than the KC Tigers for the same price.

This isn't to say KC vehicles are bad, as KC and FIgarti do have distinct "styles", i.e. KC being more of the traditional toy soldier look and Figarti skewing towards a more detailed modelers approach IMO, but it is saying that there are choices that are just as good if not better than KC for the same price. Ultimately, it's up to the collector to decide what he values/likes the best.

Personally, I hope KC responds to this competition and ups the game on their vehicles even more. They've done opening hatches in the past (T-34/76) so I see no reason they could not incorporate this in their future models. Wire mesh engine covers and antennas would go a long way as well and are simple fixes that collectors have been asking for for years. The recent KC Jagdpanther and Panzer IV look great and with a few minor tweaks could have been even better.

Some pics:

 

[Firebat]

K&C will not and probably should not change their "STYLE"

The manufacturers all have different approaches to the hobby......this basically started as a TOY SOLDIER COLLECTOR HOBBY and now has a modeling element to it.


K&C still plays more to the TOY soldier collector whereas Figarti, FL and to some extent TCS play a bit more to the modeler as of late.

So just BUY the "STYLE" that suits you.

For example I love the new K&C Jagdpanther , but I CAN'T buy it, because it does not fit my profile ........ It is too small and it has the treads that lack detail, but it is a quality product and the paint is excellent....

I would love to say to Andy, make the tank bigger, so it is proper scale and clean up those treads, but I now realize many COLLECTORS love it that way, so I bought the TCS Jagdpanther, because it is the correct scale and the treads are crisp...BUT...The paint is not as good, so I will weather them...

I have 4 TCS Jagdpanthers...K&C misses out on my money, but I am sure they got the money of many others


WHHHEW

Alex

 

[Phantom Warrior]

This is an excellent point and was going to be the crux of my response. I've got the KC Kursk Tiger and Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger, I also have the Normandy Jagdpanther and Winter Panzer IV from KC so I've got a pretty good idea of the current quality of KC tanks. That KC quality level bing very good. Honestly, KC is producing the best vehicles it has ever released IMO. The detail on the Panzer IV and Jagdpanther's tracks are very good (within the limitations of the polystone KC design) as are the detailing on the tanks themselves. Both paint jobs are excellent as well.

That being said, Figarti tanks ARE more detailed. The Wittman Tiger has better tracks with hollowed out drive sprockets, individual wheels, and more detailed track links. It also has wire mesh engine covers, a removeable cupola mounted machinegun, a commanders cupola hatch that opens and closes, and 3 wire antennas. Paint job is equal to KC's recent tanks IMO.

It used to be you had to pay more for this extra detail, but with KC tank prices climbing in recent years, and Figarti trying to reduce prices by releasing larger numbers of models with their current release of Tigers, the prices are pretty much the same.

The most current KC Tigers (Grey and Winter) cost $215 with one 1/2 body commander figure. KC charges $25 for a half body commander figure (based off pricing of their 2 Figure Tank Commanders Sets) so the Tiger itself costs $190 retail. The Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger costs $169 with no figures. The other two recent Figarti Tigers, Winter and 222 Normandy cost $189, but based off pictures their paint jobs are more detailed/weathered than the 007 Wittman Tiger.

Thus, with the Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger I can currently get a Tiger that is more detailed, with an equal paint job to KC tanks for $20 cheaper, or with the Figarti Winter/222 Tiger I can get a Tiger that is more detailed and has a better paint job than the KC Tigers for the same price.

This isn't to say KC vehicles are bad, as KC and FIgarti do have distinct "styles", i.e. KC being more of the traditional toy soldier look and Figarti skewing towards a more detailed modelers approach IMO, but it is saying that there are choices that are just as good if not better than KC for the same price. Ultimately, it's up to the collector to decide what he values/likes the best.

Personally, I hope KC responds to this competition and ups the game on their vehicles even more. They've done opening hatches in the past (T-34/76) so I see no reason they could not incorporate this in their future models. Wire mesh engine covers and antennas would go a long way as well and are simple fixes that collectors have been asking for for years.

Some pics:

Each of the manufacturers of AFVs has their own pros and cons. Having at least several AFVs from each of the main manufacturers except FL (which I have seen close up), they are easy to compare in general across their ranges. The main advantages off K&C are the robust quality of the vehicles (very important to me); the reasonably good accuracy of the modelling, the consistency and accuracy of the 1:30 scale, and the quality control at the factory. You don't get that consistency from most of the other manufacturers. The disadvantages are sometimes reduced detail of fragile parts and a price that IMO is high for what you get. But in the end, most of my AFV purchases are still from K&C.

Terry

 

[Hunter Rose]

Each of the manufacturers of AFVs has their own pros and cons. Having at least several AFVs from each of the main manufacturers except FL (which I have seen close up), they are easy to compare in general across their ranges. The main advantages off K&C are the robust quality of the vehicles (very important to me); the reasonably good accuracy of the modelling, the consistency and accuracy of the 1:30 scale, and the quality control at the factory. You don't get that consistency from most of the other manufacturers. The disadvantages are sometimes reduced detail of fragile parts and a price that IMO is high for what you get.

Terry

Very well and succinctly put. Great summation.

 

[uksubs]

K&C will not and probably should not change their "STYLE"

The manufacturers all have different approaches to the hobby......this basically started as a TOY SOLDIER COLLECTOR HOBBY and now has a modeling element to it.


K&C still plays more to the TOY soldier collector whereas Figarti, FL and to some extent TCS play a bit more to the modeler as of late.

So just BUY the "STYLE" that suits you.

For example I love the new K&C Jagdpanther , but I CAN'T buy it, because it does not fit my profile ........ It is too small and it has the treads that lack detail, but it is a quality product and the paint is excellent....

I would love to say to Andy, make the tank bigger, so it is proper scale and clean up those treads, but I now realize many COLLECTORS love it that way, so I bought the TCS Jagdpanther, because it is the correct scale and the treads are crisp...BUT...The paint is not as good, so I will weather them...

I have 4 TCS Jagdpanthers...K&C misses out on my money, but I am sure they got the money of many others


WHHHEW

Alex

Great post Alex:salute::

 

[Guy]

based on the pictures I must say that the Wittman Tiger is better value for money
guy

 

[katana]

This is an excellent point and was going to be the crux of my response. I've got the KC Kursk Tiger and Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger, I also have the Normandy Jagdpanther and Winter Panzer IV from KC so I've got a pretty good idea of the current quality of KC tanks. That KC quality level bing very good. Honestly, KC is producing the best vehicles it has ever released IMO. The detail on the Panzer IV and Jagdpanther's tracks are very good (within the limitations of the polystone KC design) as are the detailing on the tanks themselves. Both paint jobs are excellent as well.

That being said, Figarti tanks ARE more detailed. The Wittman Tiger has better tracks with hollowed out drive sprockets, individual wheels, and more detailed track links. It also has wire mesh engine covers, a removeable cupola mounted machinegun, a commanders cupola hatch that opens and closes, and 3 wire antennas. Paint job is equal to KC's recent tanks IMO.

It used to be you had to pay more for this extra detail, but with KC tank prices climbing in recent years, and Figarti trying to reduce prices by releasing larger numbers of models with their current release of Tigers, the prices are pretty much the same.

The most current KC Tigers (Grey and Winter) cost $215 with one 1/2 body commander figure. KC charges $25 for a half body commander figure (based off pricing of their 2 Figure Tank Commanders Sets) so the Tiger itself costs $190 retail. The Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger costs $169 with no figures. The other two recent Figarti Tigers, Winter and 222 Normandy cost $189, but based off pictures their paint jobs are more detailed/weathered than the 007 Wittman Tiger.

Thus, with the Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger I can currently get a Tiger that is more detailed, with an equal paint job to KC tanks for $20 cheaper, or with the Figarti Winter/222 Tiger I can get a Tiger that is more detailed and has a better paint job than the KC Tigers for the same price.

This isn't to say KC vehicles are bad, as KC and FIgarti do have distinct "styles", i.e. KC being more of the traditional toy soldier look and Figarti skewing towards a more detailed modelers approach IMO, but it is saying that there are choices that are just as good if not better than KC for the same price. Ultimately, it's up to the collector to decide what he values/likes the best.

Personally, I hope KC responds to this competition and ups the game on their vehicles even more. They've done opening hatches in the past (T-34/76) so I see no reason they could not incorporate this in their future models. Wire mesh engine covers and antennas would go a long way as well and are simple fixes that collectors have been asking for for years. The recent KC Jagdpanther and Panzer IV look great and with a few minor tweaks could have been even better.

Some pics:

Great photos which allow accurate comparison of these models. Ultimately all polystone/resin models are less detailed than a styrene scale model kit. The size increase in the typical 60MM figure (68 MM by actual measurement) allows them to be used with the fine 1/25 scale Tamiya armor models which leave nothing to be desired in accuracy or function. The Tamiya Tiger I features working suspension, articulated individual link tracks, interior details and all hatches open including the engine hatches. For those demanding the highest level of accuracy for their nominal 60 MM figures this is the way to go; provided you have the skills required to build and paint them. The Tamiya Panther, Jagdpanther, T34-85 and SU-100 all in 1/25 are superb models that will work very well with the larger figures from K&C, TSC and Thomas Gunn. I display my K&C Panzer Komander half figures with them as well as the Panzer Ace figure and they work very well; better than with polystone armor which is typically too small for the figures. The average height of a man in 1940-45 was 5'9" with tankers being smaller than average. WWII photos show tank crew significantly shorter than the deck of a Tiger or Panther tank which was about 6' high. I posted some photos in the Matt Toy Soldier section which may be of interest. Regards

 

[katana]

based on the pictures I must say that the Wittman Tiger is better value for money
guy

The K&C Tiger I can be greatly improved by painting the recesses of the sprockets and engine grills flat black with any Acrylic hobby paint. A little graphite applied with a pencil to wear points adds greater realism. Colored chalk rubbed on will weather the surface without damage to the factory paint. All of these additions should come already applied from the factory at the price point of these models IMHO.

 

[Poppo]

By the photos, I prefer the KC tiger( I have it). Figarti one has some details that KC one hasn't....But it is also true the contrary. Plus, in the KC one were 2 crew.
Sure, the tracks and the antennas should be improved in KC...And the scale.

 

[uksubs]

This is an excellent point and was going to be the crux of my response. I've got the KC Kursk Tiger and Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger, I also have the Normandy Jagdpanther and Winter Panzer IV from KC so I've got a pretty good idea of the current quality of KC tanks. That KC quality level bing very good. Honestly, KC is producing the best vehicles it has ever released IMO. The detail on the Panzer IV and Jagdpanther's tracks are very good (within the limitations of the polystone KC design) as are the detailing on the tanks themselves. Both paint jobs are excellent as well.

That being said, Figarti tanks ARE more detailed. The Wittman Tiger has better tracks with hollowed out drive sprockets, individual wheels, and more detailed track links. It also has wire mesh engine covers, a removeable cupola mounted machinegun, a commanders cupola hatch that opens and closes, and 3 wire antennas. Paint job is equal to KC's recent tanks IMO.

It used to be you had to pay more for this extra detail, but with KC tank prices climbing in recent years, and Figarti trying to reduce prices by releasing larger numbers of models with their current release of Tigers, the prices are pretty much the same.

The most current KC Tigers (Grey and Winter) cost $215 with one 1/2 body commander figure. KC charges $25 for a half body commander figure (based off pricing of their 2 Figure Tank Commanders Sets) so the Tiger itself costs $190 retail. The Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger costs $169 with no figures. The other two recent Figarti Tigers, Winter and 222 Normandy cost $189, but based off pictures their paint jobs are more detailed/weathered than the 007 Wittman Tiger.

Thus, with the Figarti 007 Wittman Tiger I can currently get a Tiger that is more detailed, with an equal paint job to KC tanks for $20 cheaper, or with the Figarti Winter/222 Tiger I can get a Tiger that is more detailed and has a better paint job than the KC Tigers for the same price.

This isn't to say KC vehicles are bad, as KC and FIgarti do have distinct "styles", i.e. KC being more of the traditional toy soldier look and Figarti skewing towards a more detailed modelers approach IMO, but it is saying that there are choices that are just as good if not better than KC for the same price. Ultimately, it's up to the collector to decide what he values/likes the best.

Personally, I hope KC responds to this competition and ups the game on their vehicles even more. They've done opening hatches in the past (T-34/76) so I see no reason they could not incorporate this in their future models. Wire mesh engine covers and antennas would go a long way as well and are simple fixes that collectors have been asking for for years. The recent KC Jagdpanther and Panzer IV look great and with a few minor tweaks could have been even better.

Some pics:

cheer for taking the time to post the photos