King&Country LAH Items.....A Sound Collecting Investment (2 Viewers)

[Rob]

I think to be honest Mitch anyone trying to defend the Nazi's will always be on a hiding to nothing really. Its fine to try and understand them, in fact its wise to if it will help a repeat in future. But its a very fine line between understanding and then making excuses for, how and where you draw the line is the question.. Contrary to what you've said about the allies, although I get your point, there is of late a rather insidious trend of lumping the allies and Nazi's together and saying along the lines of 'they were all almost as much to blame' , this is truly disgusting. We can argue about the bombing of civilians during air raids by both sides because this is almost a sub issue, but only one country violated national borders to start the War, one country commited more atrocities in the form of mass murder of prisoners and civilians alike and most of all only one country came up with the sickening 'final solution'. I've talked to German veterans at the museum and its always been a pleasure , their dedication to their cause was admirable if misguided, and bravery and military skill can always be admired . I'm just wary of this ,how can I say it, 'watering down' or 'softening' of history and just who started it all. I also honestly believe some people just simply do not know very much about the regime and just love their Tanks and weapons etc, nothing wrong with that I say.

Rob

Rob...

It depends, I have done lots of work on the SS and met lots of them over the years. Now, when we discuss battles or, massacres and the like, a few jump in with emotion when anyone offers the other side whether or not they accept that side there is a side to tell. If we don't then we have a lop sided view of the greatest conflict in history. Its the in thing to say the allies were always right and the axis were always wrong, thats too simplistic for me as, like it or not, they thought they were right in the ideals which, eventually they fought for just as we did. I don't see any harm in addressing the other side of the issue.

I think of LAH collectors the opposite to what you have just said. Now, there are certainly more openly showing their collections and talking about them. When I joined and started showing mine there was really only Wayne. I had plenty of arguments with people who all had plenty to say about the Nazi's and, all took some form of moral high ground.

There is a huge difference in admiring or defending and, accepting and wanting to understand the reasons why they went about what they did. If we are history buffs which is always said on here then why ignore or, dismiss the side we faught?
Mitch

 

[Thompyt]

I think to be honest Mitch anyone trying to defend the Nazi's will always be on a hiding to nothing really. Its fine to try and understand them, in fact its wise to if it will help a repeat in future. But its a very fine line between understanding and then making excuses for, how and where you draw the line is the question.. Contrary to what you've said about the allies, although I get your point, there is of late a rather insidious trend of lumping the allies and Nazi's together and saying along the lines of 'they were all almost as much to blame' , this is truly disgusting. We can argue about the bombing of civilians during air raids by both sides because this is almost a sub issue, but only one country violated national borders to start the War, one country commited more atrocities in the form of mass murder of prisoners and civilians alike and most of all only one country came up with the sickening 'final solution'. I've talked to German veterans at the museum and its always been a pleasure , their dedication to their cause was admirable if misguided, and bravery and military skill can always be admired . I'm just wary of this ,how can I say it, 'watering down' or 'softening' of history and just who started it all. I also honestly believe some people just simply do not know very much about the regime and just love their Tanks and weapons etc, nothing wrong with that I say.

Rob

Rob,
I agree. My experience while stationed in Germany for 15 years is there is a lot of effort by them to downplay that portion of their history. My Father-in-Law was captured winter of 43, after dining on all their artillery horses, by the Russians. The most he imparted to me was the hardships endured after capture, and not returning home until 52/3. I can unfortunately say the US is in the forgetting mode, or does not deem it important enough to impart what the US went through and why during WWII. Most kids in school can't even tell me who killed President Lincoln, or who John Wayne was.
I am in the infancy of collecting LAH, preferring the fielded uniforms/vs. the black dress. I don't admire the political trend of theirs, but do admire the assets utilized in war. Perhaps not the fanaticism as it killed a lot of soldiers unnecessarily.
Bottom line up front: Neat stuff to collect, and better when the meaning behind each figure/tank is understood.
Back to the thread:
Collect as you will, speculate as you want, keep or sell as want. They belong to you with the right to do with as you want without discrimination by others.

 

[Rob]

Rob,
I agree. My experience while stationed in Germany for 15 years is there is a lot of effort by them to downplay that portion of their history. My Father-in-Law was captured winter of 43, after dining on all their artillery horses, by the Russians. The most he imparted to me was the hardships endured after capture, and not returning home until 52/3. I can unfortunately say the US is in the forgetting mode, or does not deem it important enough to impart what the US went through and why during WWII. Most kids in school can't even tell me who killed President Lincoln, or who John Wayne was.
I am in the infancy of collecting LAH, preferring the fielded uniforms/vs. the black dress. I don't admire the political trend of theirs, but do admire the assets utilized in war. Perhaps not the fanaticism as it killed a lot of soldiers unnecessarily.
Bottom line up front: Neat stuff to collect, and better when the meaning behind each figure/tank is understood.
Back to the thread:
Collect as you will, speculate as you want, keep or sell as want. They belong to you with the right to do with as you want without discrimination by others.

Well said, good post too.

I can see why the LAH is popular, it lends itself very well to impressive displays, have said it a million times I know but it would be so boring if we all collected the same thing wouldn't it. And as for ebay, yep we can all do as we please, thats the joy of freedom!

Cheers

Rob

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Now to take a sharp turn, What about the companies that produce the LAH items . K&C and CS are full out in their production of the LAH series. They do so based on one thing. Right, Wrong, or Indifferent they make these items because collectors and history buffs have wanted them. Germans sell extremely well and the LAH series sells even better.
Based on that, you decide. ^&confuse

 

[uksubs]

Now to take a sharp turn, What about the companies that produce the LAH items . K&C and CS are full out in their production of the LAH series. They do so based on one thing. Right, Wrong, or Indifferent they make these items because collectors and history buffs have wanted them. Germans sell extremely well and the LAH series sells even better.
Based on that, you decide. ^&confuse

But does it make it right know that the question?:wink2:

 

[uksubs]

Now to take a sharp turn, What about the companies that produce the LAH items . K&C and CS are full out in their production of the LAH series. They do so based on one thing. Right, Wrong, or Indifferent they make these items because collectors and history buffs have wanted them. Germans sell extremely well and the LAH series sells even better.
Based on that, you decide. ^&confuse

They make them as they sell pure and simple mate. still does not mean it right it wrong depending how you see it

 

[Rob]

Now to take a sharp turn, What about the companies that produce the LAH items . K&C and CS are full out in their production of the LAH series. They do so based on one thing. Right, Wrong, or Indifferent they make these items because collectors and history buffs have wanted them. Germans sell extremely well and the LAH series sells even better.
Based on that, you decide. ^&confuse

Absolutely. However that does not mean we cannot talk about these things, the freedom that the good people of the world fought for in WW2 allows us this. If anyone wants to shout that they love the LAH range that is their absolute right, and if someone wants to say it turns their stomach that is their right too. There is no right or wrong, just opinions. ^&cool

Rob

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Absolutely. However that does not mean we cannot talk about these things, the freedom that the good people of the world fought for in WW2 allows us this. If anyone wants to shout that they love the LAH range that is their absolute right, and if someone wants to say it turns their stomach that is their right too. There is no right or wrong, just opinions. ^&cool

Rob

Nothing but true facts spoken Rob. {bravo}}

 

[Currahee Chris]

I fully accept that LAH figures sell...to me that is completely irrelevant, in my opinion anyway, when taking an "investors" view to King and Country products. I firmly believe that KC products are very very hot at the moment and if they were to announce in the Feb 2012 dispatches a strictly limited to 100 items manure stall for the Life of Jesus line with a special scratch and sniff "historical reality" applicator the things would fly off shelves and the ebay hysteria would commence......


Why??? Well, your guess is as good as mine- but something clearly works with this process of theirs completely seperate of what line something may or may not belong to- admittedly, LAH fans will probably be the ones paying a premium to obtain a rare/retired piece but that would more than likely be the case with any of the retired ranges.

Again Mitch, I pose to you the same question as before- why is it you seem so polarized in dealing with Michigan toy soldier felons, london protesters and sending these folks off to the gallows without seemingly too interested in their fair and balanced approach yet when we talk Nazis- we get the "fair and balanced card"??? Again, I'm just curious.

One of my most cherished friendships that I have ever had in my life is with a Chinese man who collects LAH figures and has them prominently displayed in his house- his wife is French!! My irritation with the LAH/ Nazi fanboys is that it seems to be all over this doggone forum- some kind of LAH "balance card thread" some kind of LAH appreciation thread- great LAH dio, etc, etc- seems to be sparking up all over the place to the point where you Mitch seem to be the one taking cheap shots and saying those of us who disagree that we are taking the moral high ground like its some kind of disease- sorry mate, that stuff doesnt fly in my book.

 

[Jack]

I fully accept that LAH figures sell...to me that is completely irrelevant, in my opinion anyway, when taking an "investors" view to King and Country products. I firmly believe that KC products are very very hot at the moment and if they were to announce in the Feb 2012 dispatches a strictly limited to 100 items manure stall for the Life of Jesus line with a special scratch and sniff "historical reality" applicator the things would fly off shelves and the ebay hysteria would commence......


Why??? Well, your guess is as good as mine- but something clearly works with this process of theirs completely seperate of what line something may or may not belong to- admittedly, LAH fans will probably be the ones paying a premium to obtain a rare/retired piece but that would more than likely be the case with any of the retired ranges.

Again Mitch, I pose to you the same question as before- why is it you seem so polarized in dealing with Michigan toy soldier felons, london protesters and sending these folks off to the gallows without seemingly too interested in their fair and balanced approach yet when we talk Nazis- we get the "fair and balanced card"??? Again, I'm just curious.

One of my most cherished friendships that I have ever had in my life is with a Chinese man who collects LAH figures and has them prominently displayed in his house- his wife is French!! My irritation with the LAH/ Nazi fanboys is that it seems to be all over this doggone forum- some kind of LAH "balance card thread" some kind of LAH appreciation thread- great LAH dio, etc, etc- seems to be sparking up all over the place to the point where you Mitch seem to be the one taking cheap shots and saying those of us who disagree that we are taking the moral high ground like its some kind of disease- sorry mate, that stuff doesnt fly in my book.

Any word yet on the price of the manure stall?

 

[Rob]

Mitch,

We have indeed debated this many times and because I don't want to get in trouble with PA for drifting his thread I'd better wrap it up:wink2:

You do appear to be be lumping the two sides together and perhaps suggesting they deserve to be seen as equal in their blame for what happened?? You do not for instance ever appear to condemn Germany for invading other countries who had not commited any act against Germany. Further and more importantly you do not mention the final solution that the regime depicted in all the LAH releases invented and carried out with some enthusiasm. Dresden was a terrible act , but it would never had happened had Nazi Germany never started the War. Yes we can try and understand the other side, but this does not mean we denergrate our own side and compare them to the Nazi's or as I said water down their role. Its not about soundbites its about actual blame and condemnation of the country responsible. So I ask you a direct question Mitch , with no referance to the allies, do you condemn outright (and believe) the German invasion of Poland that triggered WW2, and the deliberate, organized and industrial attempt to erase Jewish people from the face of the earth? I do not for one second believe you are a sympathizer at all Mitch, if I gave that impression in any of my posts I apologize whole heartedly and it was not my intent , I really enjoy these debates, and contary to what some may think we are having this discussion in a calm and civil manner, this gives lie to the claim that the forum cannot hold an interesting discussion without it descending into mud slinging.

Rob

Rob/Chris...

We have spoken many times about this and, chris if you would like another answer of what seems to puzzle you even though I have said it before PM me.

I don't think its easy for some to accept that german items sell well or, that god forbid anyone could have anything other than accepted soundbites about how bad the axis were could be anything other than a sympathiser to their cause. I am anything but, an armchair general chris and, have actively researched what I discuss. Two sides fought a vicious war for goals that they believed in. I see no problem in looking at what motivated the other side. Thats not sympathising or anything similar its just the way it should be. I would hate to have the history books skewed in such a one sided manner for what would we know would be blind unrealistic propaganda. Sorry, but, thats too simplistic for me and, with some on here who have such an interest in history, I would hope for them also.

History for me, or even on here, is not watering down what the allied cause did but, opening eyes to the fact that all sides did things which were not right balances out what really happened. It was 6 years for most of total war and, at different times both sides were fighting for their very survival. Dresden was and is seen as a war crime but, we can and should debate this well, equally it is the same about what the germans did. If thats not interesting or, needs not to be researched and addressed then, we may as well give it all up now.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Nothing but true facts spoken Rob. {bravo}}

Thank you PA:salute::

Rob

 

[Currahee Chris]

Any word yet on the price of the manure stall?

You'll have to wait till February {sm4}{sm4}

 

[Jack]

Mitch,

We have indeed debated this many times and because I don't want to get in trouble with PA for drifting his thread I'd better wrap it up:wink2:

You do appear to be be lumping the two sides together and perhaps suggesting they deserve to be seen as equal in their blame for what happened?? You do not for instance ever appear to condemn Germany for invading other countries who had not commited any act against Germany. Further and more importantly you do not mention the final solution that the regime depicted in all the LAH releases invented and carried out with some enthusiasm. Dresden was a terrible act , but it would never had happened had Nazi Germany never started the War. Yes we can try and understand the other side, but this does not mean we denergrate our own side and compare them to the Nazi's or as I said water down their role. Its not about soundbites its about actual blame and condemnation of the country responsible. So I ask you a direct question Mitch , with no referance to the allies, do you condemn outright (and believe) the German invasion of Poland that triggered WW2, and the deliberate, organized and industrial attempt to erase Jewish people from the face of the earth? I do not for one second believe you are a sympathizer at all Mitch, if I gave that impression in any of my posts I apologize whole heartedly and it was not my intent , I really enjoy these debates, and contary to what some may think we are having this discussion in a calm and civil manner, this gives lie to the claim that the forum cannot hold an interesting discussion without it descending into mud slinging.

Rob

Some time ago - I forget the deatils - there was a TV series on the young Hitler starring Robert Carlyle. There was a small but vocal group who argued that it was a dangerous program not because it gave no understanding of Hitler, but that it gave too much. The view was underpinned by the assumption that understanding was only a short step from excusing. These people believed that it was better to have a view of Hitler as little more than a madman with no connection to either the past or the future. That is, of course, a dangerous view as it forgives the world that created him, nurtured him and ushered him to power.

Our modern tolerance for difference can make it difficult to condemn evil, to make a stand, full in the knowledge that though we are imperfect, we (whoever we may be I suppose) stand for a better world. I have seen a statue at Omaha Beach from memory of the spirit of American youth rising from the waters. It is the way I like to think of Americans, at their best, prepared to make a stand for a cause greater then self. I think of the Brits in 1940 - dogged, defiant - and I find it hard to do anything but like them. I think of the New Zealanders at Crete and recognise a greatness in them too. Unfortunately for other peoples, at least from an Australian point of view, its almost best to leave history off the table!

 

[Jack]

You'll have to wait till February {sm4}{sm4}

With my luck someone will buy all 100 units and flog them on ebay for three times the price!

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

Of course I have no symapthy for the concentration camps and find what was done to be disgraceful. I do think that we cannot just say though as a historian that germany was to blame for WWII by attacking Poland. as the problems that spawned that attack are far more complicated than germany deciding arbitarily that they would attack Poland. Now, as a historian that does not condone the attack but, addresses why it took place.

Now, people may like it simplistic and, that we should all say how bad the germans were for the starting of WWII but, the allies, french especially, have to accept the manner in which they allowed germany to get to the point in september 1939.

Thats not nazi sympathising or, being a neo nazi which, I have just been accused of in PM thats being intelligent enough to know the facts that started WWII
Mitch

Mitch,

We have indeed debated this many times and because I don't want to get in trouble with PA for drifting his thread I'd better wrap it up:wink2:

You do appear to be be lumping the two sides together and perhaps suggesting they deserve to be seen as equal in their blame for what happened?? You do not for instance ever appear to condemn Germany for invading other countries who had not commited any act against Germany. Further and more importantly you do not mention the final solution that the regime depicted in all the LAH releases invented and carried out with some enthusiasm. Dresden was a terrible act , but it would never had happened had Nazi Germany never started the War. Yes we can try and understand the other side, but this does not mean we denergrate our own side and compare them to the Nazi's or as I said water down their role. Its not about soundbites its about actual blame and condemnation of the country responsible. So I ask you a direct question Mitch , with no referance to the allies, do you condemn outright (and believe) the German invasion of Poland that triggered WW2, and the deliberate, organized and industrial attempt to erase Jewish people from the face of the earth? I do not for one second believe you are a sympathizer at all Mitch, if I gave that impression in any of my posts I apologize whole heartedly and it was not my intent , I really enjoy these debates, and contary to what some may think we are having this discussion in a calm and civil manner, this gives lie to the claim that the forum cannot hold an interesting discussion without it descending into mud slinging.

Rob

 

[wayne556517]

Rob...

Of course I have no symapthy for the concentration camps and find what was done to be disgraceful. I do think that we cannot just say though as a historian that germany was to blame for WWII by attacking Poland. as the problems that spawned that attack are far more complicated than germany deciding arbitarily that they would attack Poland. Now, as a historian that does not condone the attack but, addresses why it took place.

Now, people may like it simplistic and, that we should all say how bad the germans were for the starting of WWII but, the allies, french especially, have to accept the manner in which they allowed germany to get to the point in september 1939.

Thats not nazi sympathising or, being a neo nazi which, I have just been accused of in PM thats being intelligent enough to know the facts that started WWII
Mitch

Welcome to the club Mitch........................

 

[Mitch]

Wayne...

Cheers mate do we have funny handshakes and have to say Heil after each sentence??
Mitch

Welcome to the club Mitch........................

 

[wayne556517]

Wayne...

Cheers mate do we have funny handshakes and have to say Heil after each sentence??
Mitch

.That's the one.

 

[SPICK0001]

Any pics of LAH sets? Here's some of my collection: