Leave K&C Alone... (1 Viewer)

[larso]

"I observed to my moderately good friend Larso the other day in conversation"

Moderately!
We played cricket together for 20 years.
You talked me into joining the Army Reserve with you.
You were best-man at my wedding.
You're godfather of my son.
I got you into toy soldiers.
And I opened your eyes to the sense of Protestantism!

 

[Jack]

"I observed to my moderately good friend Larso the other day in conversation"

Moderately!
We played cricket together for 20 years.
You talked me into joining the Army Reserve with you.
You were best-man at my wedding.
You're godfather of my son.
I got you into toy soldiers.
And I opened your eyes to the sense of Protestantism!

Yes ... but what have you done for me lately?

 

[larso]

"Do you feel that you may have let the two inaccuracies cloud the joy"

I think this points to the crux of this thread. They are miniature representations. They are toys. I think some people maybe expect too much.

NB - I like K & C but they constitute only half of my collection. I happily collect CS Romans/Barbarians, Conte (when available), Jenkins 18th Century and plastic. I was fortunate to have a drink with Andy when he visited Brisbane last. I spoke about my favourite ranges and as for the P figures, told him it would mean that I buy fewer. I will simply pick the ones I like best. It was all very pleasant, as exchanges between fellow enthusiasts should be.

 

[larso]

"Yes ... but what have you done for me lately?"

The other day I picked you up and drove you to the other side of town where your wife's car had broken down.

 

[Jack]

"Yes ... but what have you done for me lately?"

The other day I picked you up and drove you to the other side of town where your wife's car had broken down.

That was a favour to her not me. I repeat my question ... what have you done for ME lately?

 

[uksubs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

Lol nice one Terry

 

[Mitch]

if they were toys and similar you could I suppose, let slide some of the innacuracies etc but, they are not toys, not marketed as toys, and, are not priced as toys. They are sold as accurate replicas of history and a lot of the marketing emphasises the thoroughness of the research. We here of these vast book collections and vast array of people adding input to the design and build of figures and AFV's and yet there are still issues with basic things like precise and definite measurements for scale of objects that have no leeway like AFV's weapons etc.

They also choose to make silly errors on things which should not happen especially when depicting famous regiments, divisions etc that are so simple to look up in a few seconds or, the number of mistakes on the Tigers from all manufacturers I mean something as well known as a Tiger!!!! Conversely, they can add some of the smallest detail that you would expect them to miss

Alex like many likes accuracy and detail but, as a diorama maker quests for scale as the pivotal issue and that cannot be solved because the manufacturers each have their own interpretation of what a concrete measurement like 1/30th is when looking at a exact measurement say on a Tiger.

detail errors don't obfuscate the hobby or what I buy but this is a toy soldier forum and is exactly the place to discuss the products and, those who have no interest in the detail and are just wowed by the model in front should understand that the hobby is built on its attention to detail (that is from the manufacturers not collectors) and if they get them wrong then they should expect that a great number of collectors will know.

The problem lies in the history and what manufacturer one is raising issues with as to how it will be received by the manufacturer and the manufacturers group of collectors or, some of them. Innacuracies have been raised on a number of occasions in other makers and have been just observed by the manufacturer and corrected without all the associated name calling histrionics and childish PM stuff that goes on in some.

Perhaps when people, as is usually the case, try to offer explanations about what is wrong and who is wrong on here they should address the manner in which they respond.

Look back at the history of the forum and these events are the norm the same things said and subjects brought up as would be expected as its a narrow topic. You see the same debates and what have you the same people trying to make out the fun has gone or this or that etc and the same people feeling the need to adopt multiple identities and try and make out this or that. There is always a group of righteous individuals who do no wrong and a group where its easy to lay all the woes of the world on.

As someone I am remarkably gaining a little respect for says you could not make this stuff up!!!!
Mitch

 

[uksubs]

if they were toys and similar you could I suppose, let slide some of the innacuracies etc but, they are not toys, not marketed as toys, and, are not priced as toys. They are sold as accurate replicas of history and a lot of the marketing emphasises the thoroughness of the research. We here of these vast book collections and vast array of people adding input to the design and build of figures and AFV's and yet there are still issues with basic things like precise and definite measurements for scale of objects that have no leeway like AFV's weapons etc.

They also choose to make silly errors on things which should not happen especially when depicting famous regiments, divisions etc that are so simple to look up in a few seconds or, the number of mistakes on the Tigers from all manufacturers I mean something as well known as a Tiger!!!! Conversely, they can add some of the smallest detail that you would expect them to miss

Alex like many likes accuracy and detail but, as a diorama maker quests for scale as the pivotal issue and that cannot be solved because the manufacturers each have their own interpretation of what a concrete measurement like 1/30th is when looking at a exact measurement say on a Tiger.

detail errors don't obfuscate the hobby or what I buy but this is a toy soldier forum and is exactly the place to discuss the products and, those who have no interest in the detail and are just wowed by the model in front should understand that the hobby is built on its attention to detail (that is from the manufacturers not collectors) and if they get them wrong then they should expect that a great number of collectors will know.

The problem lies in the history and what manufacturer one is raising issues with as to how it will be received by the manufacturer and the manufacturers group of collectors or, some of them. Innacuracies have been raised on a number of occasions in other makers and have been just observed by the manufacturer and corrected without all the associated name calling histrionics and childish PM stuff that goes on in some.

Perhaps when people, as is usually the case, try to offer explanations about what is wrong and who is wrong on here they should address the manner in which they respond.

Look back at the history of the forum and these events are the norm the same things said and subjects brought up as would be expected as its a narrow topic. You see the same debates and what have you the same people trying to make out the fun has gone or this or that etc and the same people feeling the need to adopt multiple identities and try and make out this or that. There is always a group of righteous individuals who do no wrong and a group where its easy to lay all the woes of the world on.

As someone I am remarkably gaining a little respect for says you could not make this stuff up!!!!
Mitch

Well said Mitch

 

[Firebat]

if they were toys and similar you could I suppose, let slide some of the innacuracies etc but, they are not toys, not marketed as toys, and, are not priced as toys. They are sold as accurate replicas of history and a lot of the marketing emphasises the thoroughness of the research. We here of these vast book collections and vast array of people adding input to the design and build of figures and AFV's and yet there are still issues with basic things like precise and definite measurements for scale of objects that have no leeway like AFV's weapons etc.

They also choose to make silly errors on things which should not happen especially when depicting famous regiments, divisions etc that are so simple to look up in a few seconds or, the number of mistakes on the Tigers from all manufacturers I mean something as well known as a Tiger!!!! Conversely, they can add some of the smallest detail that you would expect them to miss

Alex like many likes accuracy and detail but, as a diorama maker quests for scale as the pivotal issue and that cannot be solved because the manufacturers each have their own interpretation of what a concrete measurement like 1/30th is when looking at a exact measurement say on a Tiger.

detail errors don't obfuscate the hobby or what I buy but this is a toy soldier forum and is exactly the place to discuss the products and, those who have no interest in the detail and are just wowed by the model in front should understand that the hobby is built on its attention to detail (that is from the manufacturers not collectors) and if they get them wrong then they should expect that a great number of collectors will know.

The problem lies in the history and what manufacturer one is raising issues with as to how it will be received by the manufacturer and the manufacturers group of collectors or, some of them. Innacuracies have been raised on a number of occasions in other makers and have been just observed by the manufacturer and corrected without all the associated name calling histrionics and childish PM stuff that goes on in some.

Perhaps when people, as is usually the case, try to offer explanations about what is wrong and who is wrong on here they should address the manner in which they respond.

Look back at the history of the forum and these events are the norm the same things said and subjects brought up as would be expected as its a narrow topic. You see the same debates and what have you the same people trying to make out the fun has gone or this or that etc and the same people feeling the need to adopt multiple identities and try and make out this or that. There is always a group of righteous individuals who do no wrong and a group where its easy to lay all the woes of the world on.

As someone I am remarkably gaining a little respect for says you could not make this stuff up!!!!
Mitch

Well Said !

 

[BLReed]

if they were toys and similar you could I suppose, let slide some of the innacuracies etc but, they are not toys, not marketed as toys, and, are not priced as toys. They are sold as accurate replicas of history and a lot of the marketing emphasises the thoroughness of the research. We here of these vast book collections and vast array of people adding input to the design and build of figures and AFV's and yet there are still issues with basic things like precise and definite measurements for scale of objects that have no leeway like AFV's weapons etc.

They also choose to make silly errors on things which should not happen especially when depicting famous regiments, divisions etc that are so simple to look up in a few seconds or, the number of mistakes on the Tigers from all manufacturers I mean something as well known as a Tiger!!!! Conversely, they can add some of the smallest detail that you would expect them to miss

Alex like many likes accuracy and detail but, as a diorama maker quests for scale as the pivotal issue and that cannot be solved because the manufacturers each have their own interpretation of what a concrete measurement like 1/30th is when looking at a exact measurement say on a Tiger.

detail errors don't obfuscate the hobby or what I buy but this is a toy soldier forum and is exactly the place to discuss the products and, those who have no interest in the detail and are just wowed by the model in front should understand that the hobby is built on its attention to detail (that is from the manufacturers not collectors) and if they get them wrong then they should expect that a great number of collectors will know.

The problem lies in the history and what manufacturer one is raising issues with as to how it will be received by the manufacturer and the manufacturers group of collectors or, some of them. Innacuracies have been raised on a number of occasions in other makers and have been just observed by the manufacturer and corrected without all the associated name calling histrionics and childish PM stuff that goes on in some.

Perhaps when people, as is usually the case, try to offer explanations about what is wrong and who is wrong on here they should address the manner in which they respond.

Look back at the history of the forum and these events are the norm the same things said and subjects brought up as would be expected as its a narrow topic. You see the same debates and what have you the same people trying to make out the fun has gone or this or that etc and the same people feeling the need to adopt multiple identities and try and make out this or that. There is always a group of righteous individuals who do no wrong and a group where its easy to lay all the woes of the world on.

As someone I am remarkably gaining a little respect for says you could not make this stuff up!!!!
Mitch

Well said. Thanks for taking the time. It's appreciated by many.

 

[jazzeum]

if they were toys and similar you could I suppose, let slide some of the innacuracies etc but, they are not toys, not marketed as toys, and, are not priced as toys. They are sold as accurate replicas of history and a lot of the marketing emphasises the thoroughness of the research. We here of these vast book collections and vast array of people adding input to the design and build of figures and AFV's and yet there are still issues with basic things like precise and definite measurements for scale of objects that have no leeway like AFV's weapons etc.

They also choose to make silly errors on things which should not happen especially when depicting famous regiments, divisions etc that are so simple to look up in a few seconds or, the number of mistakes on the Tigers from all manufacturers I mean something as well known as a Tiger!!!! Conversely, they can add some of the smallest detail that you would expect them to miss

Alex like many likes accuracy and detail but, as a diorama maker quests for scale as the pivotal issue and that cannot be solved because the manufacturers each have their own interpretation of what a concrete measurement like 1/30th is when looking at a exact measurement say on a Tiger.

detail errors don't obfuscate the hobby or what I buy but this is a toy soldier forum and is exactly the place to discuss the products and, those who have no interest in the detail and are just wowed by the model in front should understand that the hobby is built on its attention to detail (that is from the manufacturers not collectors) and if they get them wrong then they should expect that a great number of collectors will know.

The problem lies in the history and what manufacturer one is raising issues with as to how it will be received by the manufacturer and the manufacturers group of collectors or, some of them. Innacuracies have been raised on a number of occasions in other makers and have been just observed by the manufacturer and corrected without all the associated name calling histrionics and childish PM stuff that goes on in some.

Perhaps when people, as is usually the case, try to offer explanations about what is wrong and who is wrong on here they should address the manner in which they respond.

Look back at the history of the forum and these events are the norm the same things said and subjects brought up as would be expected as its a narrow topic. You see the same debates and what have you the same people trying to make out the fun has gone or this or that etc and the same people feeling the need to adopt multiple identities and try and make out this or that. There is always a group of righteous individuals who do no wrong and a group where its easy to lay all the woes of the world on.

As someone I am remarkably gaining a little respect for says you could not make this stuff up!!!!
Mitch

You seem not to have read or perhaps ignored Jack's and/or Pete's comments so I will re-post them here.

The issue is not so much the criticisms but the sheer reptitiveness of some of them. I could get into a thread on American football and write 'why all the stoppages' which to someone who watches Aussie Rules which has three rules and no one understands two of them is a logical enough question. Its when over breakfast I make the same criticism on a thread, repeated at lunch and then once more at dinner. Then when someone says if you do not like American football stay out of the thread, I reply that man is endowed by his Creator with certain inalienable rights and I am merely exercising one of them. Then I start a thread 'Is this the end of American football' , or in a discussion of ice hockey I add 'At least its better than American football lol'. I firmly believe that people use 'errors' to highlight the depth of their perceived knowledge. I remember a line from 'Frasier' when he comes home and tells Daphne "I went to the most magnificent restaurant ... just one little problem'. She replies 'Oh good ... just the way you like it'. For some the errors are just the way they like it.

When something is 'inaccurate' or even 'made up' people have a right to point out that fact. They also have a right to not purchase those products.

Blanket statements like 'K&C makes inaccurate and blatantly wrong figures' are not helpful. It beats the drum over old issues and glosses over the fact that K&C does a significant amount of research on their products and it shows!

People are free to 'accept' whatever they wish. It is not the job of a few to dictate what others can like.

We understand that things may not be perfect but the constant, almost daily it seems, repetiveness gets wearing. Once something has been pointed out, how many more times must it be so done.

All this is exalted in the name of free speech but free speech doesn't always mean you can or should say whatever you want.

Self moderation is the key. A little grammar might also help.

Brad

 

[Rob]

You seem not to have read or perhaps ignored Jack's and/or Pete's comments so I will re-post them here.





We understand that things may not be perfect but the constant, almost daily it seems, repetiveness gets wearing. Once something has been pointed out, how many more times must it be so done.

All this is exalted in the name of free speech but free speech doesn't always mean you can or should say whatever you want.

Self moderation is the key. A little grammar might also help.

Brad

Well said Brad.

Self moderation and respect is the key. If someone starts a thread saying how they love the new Valentine for instance and you do not, why not consider either not going on there, or if you do, post you don't like it and move on. It is indeed when a criticism is repeated over and again ad nauseum that it goes from tedious to deliberate to obvious. And the same works in reverse, if someone starts a thread where they are clearly not happy about something they should not be shouted down or ridiculed either, but allowed to state their views. As you say Brad just because we CAN say something does not always mean we SHOULD. Others have the right to enjoy their own threads without the god awful peck peck pecking that goes on . ( this includes all of us)

Rob

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

A lot of good comments on this thread concerning matte-painted figure manufacturers. I agree if a manufacturer is going to market their product as an authentic representation of history, they open up themselves to critical analysis by potential buyers and this should be the case. It doesn't mean potential customers shouldn't purchase their product if they like it but any problems should be pointed out and those who wish to do their own research in the matter should have that opportunity and then decide for themselves.

I have both matte-painted and traditional gloss-painted figures from a multitude of manufacturers in my collection. I hold the matte-painted figures to a much higher standard of historical authenticity than the traditional gloss-painted figures because they are advertised and sold as such...!!! If they don't meet my particular standards they do not enter into my collection. These days, I find myself expanding my traditional gloss-painted collection for many reasons.

 

[Rob]

A lot of good comments on this thread concerning matte-painted figure manufacturers. I agree if a manufacturer is going to market their product as an authentic representation of history, they open up themselves to critical analysis by potential buyers and this should be the case. It doesn't mean potential customers shouldn't purchase their product if they like it but any problems should be pointed out and those who wish to do their own research in the matter should have that opportunity and then decide for themselves.

I have both matte-painted and traditional gloss-painted figures from a multitude of manufacturers in my collection. I hold the matte-painted figures to a much higher standard of historical authenticity than the traditional gloss-painted figures because they are advertised and sold as such...!!! If they don't meet my particular standards they do not enter into my collection. These days, I find myself expanding my traditional gloss-painted collection for many reasons.

What refreshing attitude and said with no swipe at other collectors or producers, well said. I also agree in that this hobby is not cheap and we have to be sure (most of us anyway) that we really want what we buy, for me the days of buying in a scatter gun fashion are long gone.
Rob

 

[bzr116]

Very well said Jazzeum...

 

[Mitch]

Brad...

Don't know what your talking about I did not respond to any one persons post just a number of issues raised. You keep telling us about your former (former being the operative word) Mod days so, informing someone about Grammar and use of or not seems to be a little strange considering the number of times the real mods have actually commented that its rather rude.
Mitch

 

[Wraith]

Very well said Jazzeum...

View attachment 134344

Don't even get me started with the scale issues going on with this one...

 

[Buster]

Don't even get me started with the scale issues going on with this one...

Yeah, I see what you mean, but at least it is authentic handmade history ..... isn't it? :rolleyes2:

B.

 

[IONA]

Is that a new WS set^&grin

 

[jazzeum]

Mitch, I only commented on grammar, although it's really more punctuation, because I find that it's hard to follow what you have to say because of the way you place or don't place commas, run on sentences and so forth.

Yes, a person's grammar or punctuation shouldn't be a deterrence to their posting but it's often hard to follow what you are saying.