Lost my 3rd favorite online dealer..... (1 Viewer)

[Martin Tabony]

Ok, now that's comical, but don't say anymore Martin as you're giving them too many good ideas...........next they won't bother getting show tables but set up out in the parking lot and sell out of the trunk of their car...................

I never thought, there'll be someone writing all this down!^&grin^&grin

Martin

 

[marco55]

I don't have a problem with manufacturers putting restrictions in their contracts with their dealers,that's between them but when a certain set doesn't sell for 2 or 3 years the dealer should be able to apply for a exemption to whatever manufacturer produced that set and if it's granted be able to sell it for whatever they can get for it.I don't think collectors will wait for the price to come down as most of us want what we like before it even comes out.
Mark

 

[ChestersRonkonkomaNY]

I am new to the BMS world of toy soldiers. I am currently a WB and TG dealer with plans for more. I will share how this happened. As a young boy I shopped at a BMS named Waterloo . I remember going twice a month to buy 1/72 Airfix or lead Napoleonics with the money I earned doing chores, odd jobs, etc.. I loved that place, toy soldiers everywhere, knowledgable older gents who knew the history of so many world conflicts. What an impression on a small boy. I slowly wandered from the hobby hunting, fishing, chasing girls, etc.. Twenty years later i take my family (boys 8,6 daughter 5 yrs old) to Williamsburg. My oldest wanders into The Toymaker of Williamsburg. Dad can I have that cool toy soldier? You bet! Get home to NY Dad I want more! BAD NEWS Waterloo is long gone. No place to find a selection for a wide eyed lad to gawk at toy soldiers so, I dive into the business ( I am currently tripling the size of my gun store anyway) I have been amassing inventory so when my expansion is done to be the NEW waterloo I remember. I have 10's of thousands of dollars tied up for months while I still wait for my permit to expand. I had $5,000.00 worth of custom showcases built to house my Britians. See a regular showcase is 22 inches deep at most, my customs are 34 inches so I can display Zulu Storehouse, WAN British Nile River Gunboat, etc.. I recently spoke to Richard and he asked how things were going and I said great I sold Stonewall Jackson for $70.00. He replied anything else and I said no but at least I sold one, and I couldn't be happier. My regular Gunstore customers come in and ask whats with the toy soldiers? I reply it's a great hobby to share with your children and many agree. ( I think I will create NEW customers) I've had 2 hour conversations with guys about the toy soldiers, who will eventually be collectors/customers. Richard gave me a set of ground rules to play by and that is what REAL business people do when they have a business relationship. With $30,000 worth of product to be sold you know what I say. What a great start I sold a $70 piece. Hopefully some boy will come in and stare in amazement at all those soldiers and say WOW!!! That will have made it all worth it.

 

[Martin Tabony]

I am new to the BMS world of toy soldiers. I am currently a WB and TG dealer with plans for more. I will share how this happened. As a young boy I shopped at a BMS named Waterloo . I remember going twice a month to buy 1/72 Airfix or lead Napoleonics with the money I earned doing chores, odd jobs, etc.. I loved that place, toy soldiers everywhere, knowledgable older gents who knew the history of so many world conflicts. What an impression on a small boy. I slowly wandered from the hobby hunting, fishing, chasing girls, etc.. Twenty years later i take my family (boys 8,6 daughter 5 yrs old) to Williamsburg. My oldest wanders into The Toymaker of Williamsburg. Dad can I have that cool toy soldier? You bet! Get home to NY Dad I want more! BAD NEWS Waterloo is long gone. No place to find a selection for a wide eyed lad to gawk at toy soldiers so, I dive into the business ( I am currently tripling the size of my gun store anyway) I have been amassing inventory so when my expansion is done to be the NEW waterloo I remember. I have 10's of thousands of dollars tied up for months while I still wait for my permit to expand. I had $5,000.00 worth of custom showcases built to house my Britians. See a regular showcase is 22 inches deep at most, my customs are 34 inches so I can display Zulu Storehouse, WAN British Nile River Gunboat, etc.. I recently spoke to Richard and he asked how things were going and I said great I sold Stonewall Jackson for $70.00. He replied anything else and I said no but at least I sold one, and I couldn't be happier. My regular Gunstore customers come in and ask whats with the toy soldiers? I reply it's a great hobby to share with your children and many agree. ( I think I will create NEW customers) I've had 2 hour conversations with guys about the toy soldiers, who will eventually be collectors/customers. Richard gave me a set of ground rules to play by and that is what REAL business people do when they have a business relationship. With $30,000 worth of product to be sold you know what I say. What a great start I sold a $70 piece. Hopefully some boy will come in and stare in amazement at all those soldiers and say WOW!!! That will have made it all worth it.

Well good luck to you, hopfully these new rules will help you get a start. Keep us informed as to how things are going.

Martin

 

[marco55]

Ditto.{bravo}}
Mark

 

[kogu]

I am new to the BMS world of toy soldiers. I am currently a WB and TG dealer with plans for more. I will share how this happened. As a young boy I shopped at a BMS named Waterloo . I remember going twice a month to buy 1/72 Airfix or lead Napoleonics with the money I earned doing chores, odd jobs, etc.. I loved that place, toy soldiers everywhere, knowledgable older gents who knew the history of so many world conflicts. What an impression on a small boy. I slowly wandered from the hobby hunting, fishing, chasing girls, etc.. Twenty years later i take my family (boys 8,6 daughter 5 yrs old) to Williamsburg. My oldest wanders into The Toymaker of Williamsburg. Dad can I have that cool toy soldier? You bet! Get home to NY Dad I want more! BAD NEWS Waterloo is long gone. No place to find a selection for a wide eyed lad to gawk at toy soldiers so, I dive into the business ( I am currently tripling the size of my gun store anyway) I have been amassing inventory so when my expansion is done to be the NEW waterloo I remember. I have 10's of thousands of dollars tied up for months while I still wait for my permit to expand. I had $5,000.00 worth of custom showcases built to house my Britians. See a regular showcase is 22 inches deep at most, my customs are 34 inches so I can display Zulu Storehouse, WAN British Nile River Gunboat, etc.. I recently spoke to Richard and he asked how things were going and I said great I sold Stonewall Jackson for $70.00. He replied anything else and I said no but at least I sold one, and I couldn't be happier. My regular Gunstore customers come in and ask whats with the toy soldiers? I reply it's a great hobby to share with your children and many agree. ( I think I will create NEW customers) I've had 2 hour conversations with guys about the toy soldiers, who will eventually be collectors/customers. Richard gave me a set of ground rules to play by and that is what REAL business people do when they have a business relationship. With $30,000 worth of product to be sold you know what I say. What a great start I sold a $70 piece. Hopefully some boy will come in and stare in amazement at all those soldiers and say WOW!!! That will have made it all worth it.

The best of luck to you, Chester.
I really wish you do well and do hope that you see many situations coming up,where children, and parents, look at the displayed items with amazement and fascination ..... and pull the wallet to get some of the treasures :wink2:
I am serious and hope that your shop will be suggested in the future to visitors in you area.
Konrad :salute::

 

[Winston]

But I guess the secondary market is not going to go away, and if the product has good quality and is scarce enough or retired this might mean prices through the roof instead, just look at the fantastic Britains Zulu War series, highly sought after and some unbelievable high prices for retired items lately, amidst a general economic slump... In this particular case I say waiting to get a good price mustn't be a very good gamble^&grin...

Paulo

If you take a closer look at the Ebay listings. There does seem to be shill bidding going on in the UK market with the more desirable Zulu sets. The number of real active buyers at these prices appears to be actually very low.

 

[Winston]

Oh is that how it works! So let me get this straight,(just thinking out loud here) Bitains (or any other manufacturer) invest huge amounts of money, time and effort to make figures that hopefully the customer will want. Because they are in the manufactureing side they have to sell this product in order to invest in more new and varied product. So they then sell this product to a dealer, who will take this product to shows, where collectors can see the product in the flesh. In order to take the product to said shows they have to pay for delivery of the product to them (we all know postage isn't cheap) they then have to transport this same product to the show, pay for the table, possibly a hotel room, fead themselves etc. etc. If they do have a shop front that shop has to be closed while they are at the show. Then when they get to the show they probably find a dozen other dealers. Half of these are collectors that simply try to buy in bulk in order to get there own figures cheaply. A lot of these "dealers" have a full time job, so as long as they get what they want they're happy to get rid of the excess at very little mark up. This then drops the "perceived value" across the board.

In the context of my reply I was looking at the River Nile Series (which has been recently been retired en masse). I have bought the camel sets 27010, 20011 and 27017. Limited edition runs of 1,000 each. The more recent pieces which I've yet to buy - 27030 and 27033 are only 800 piece runs. The lower new production quantities reflecting the demand for the product it appears. So as a collector my concern is what impact will the additional 200 pieces of the earlier sets have on the market. Unless some people wish to buy multiples then there's excess stock in the market. Devaluing the earlier pieces that I've bought in the longer term as dealers will have to unload their stocks somehow.

How many more individual sets does this apply to?

 

[Martin Tabony]

In the context of my reply I was looking at the River Nile Series (which has been recently been retired en masse). I have bought the camel sets 27010, 20011 and 27017. Limited edition runs of 1,000 each. The more recent pieces which I've yet to buy - 27030 and 27033 are only 800 piece runs. The lower new production quantities reflecting the demand for the product it appears. So as a collector my concern is what impact will the additional 200 pieces of the earlier sets have on the market. Unless some people wish to buy multiples then there's excess stock in the market. Devaluing the earlier pieces that I've bought in the longer term as dealers will have to unload their stocks somehow.

How many more individual sets does this apply to?

If you are a collector you collect, so what difference does it make if your figures are devalued in the long term, unless you intend to resell? If you like the figures enough that you want them straight away then you pay full retail, or is it that you're worried they'll sell out before you get yours? If you want realy limited figures then, especially as you live in England, you should look at some of the cottage industries. The most I've ever sold of a figure is 150 and the lowest 0 (it got converted into something else though !)

Martin

 

[damian]

In the context of my reply I was looking at the River Nile Series (which has been recently been retired en masse). I have bought the camel sets 27010, 20011 and 27017. Limited edition runs of 1,000 each. The more recent pieces which I've yet to buy - 27030 and 27033 are only 800 piece runs. The lower new production quantities reflecting the demand for the product it appears. So as a collector my concern is what impact will the additional 200 pieces of the earlier sets have on the market. Unless some people wish to buy multiples then there's excess stock in the market. Devaluing the earlier pieces that I've bought in the longer term as dealers will have to unload their stocks somehow.

How many more individual sets does this apply to?

I realize they are very different business models but the more I see of this retirement type thing the more I like the cottage type approach of always being able to order the set you want when you want it.

 

[Winston]

If you are a collector you collect, so what difference does it make if your figures are devalued in the long term, unless you intend to resell?

I tend to view it as a lack of confidence in the brand. My budget is limited. So as a consumer I make choices. I buy what I like in given ranges by different manufacturers. Would my money be better spent with another manufacturer? As uncertainty is a killer as far as I am concerned. In future I'll keep my hands in my pockets until a new series is well established. This doesn't help the manufacturer nor the dealer.

 

[damian]

I tend to view it as a lack of confidence in the brand. My budget is limited. So as a consumer I make choices. I buy what I like in given ranges by different manufacturers. Would my money be better spent with another manufacturer? As uncertainty is a killer as far as I am concerned. In future I'll keep my hands in my pockets until a new series is well established. This doesn't help the manufacturer nor the dealer.

Then ou may have to scramble around collecting all those early releases you missed out on. Will WB redo the storehouse or the hospital for Rorkes Drift in a few years time? How is the Hougomot series doing on the secondary market? Either way it makes it difficult to be a collector.

 

[Winston]

Then ou may have to scramble around collecting all those early releases you missed out on. Will WB redo the storehouse or the hospital for Rorkes Drift in a few years time? How is the Hougomot series doing on the secondary market? Either way it makes it difficult to be a collector.

That's life if you miss sets. I don't have the resources to buy everything. So buy what appeals to me a collector. The whole buy as an investment ethos that I've heard pumped out at the London shows over the past decade is totally overblown. Buy one for display and one for your pension fund appears to be coming back as a boomerang would.

A well known and respected WB dealer in the UK off is loading sets at below original UK selling price. Why do I need to chase overpriced items on the auction market?

Or is this WB's way of shifting "retired" stock from the warehouse? This piece is listed at a retail price of £23.49p.........

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/W-Britain...Soldiers_EH&hash=item20c3aefd52#ht_600wt_1110


As for the Hougoumont series.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Britains-...Soldiers_EH&hash=item20b67a3969#ht_600wt_1110

 

[damian]

That's life if you miss sets. I don't have the resources to buy everything. So buy what appeals to me a collector. The whole buy as an investment ethos that I've heard pumped out at the London shows over the past decade is totally overblown. Buy one for display and one for your pension fund appears to be coming back as a boomerang would.

A well known and respected WB dealer in the UK off is loading sets at below original UK selling price. Why do I need to chase overpriced items on the auction market?

Or is this WB's way of shifting "retired" stock from the warehouse? This piece is listed at a retail price of £23.49p.........

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/W-Britain...Soldiers_EH&hash=item20c3aefd52#ht_600wt_1110

That is what happened to WB about eighty ears ago...
You cou
D buy all the sets you wanted at half price about a year after release. The company at the time ergo did not do well out of it

 

[Winston]

That is what happened to WB about eighty ears ago...
You cou
D buy all the sets you wanted at half price about a year after release. The company at the time ergo did not do well out of it

Remember it well. The Waterloo Collectors Club series.

I lost count of the listings that went on Ebay in the UK. Well in excess of 3,000 sets.

Hence why I don't buy into this booming market hype.

Also remember the Teddy Bear market well when if put Steiff in the title the price rocketed. This market has never been the same since. (My partners interest I should add!)

 

[jazzeum]

For those who say they don't care about what their collection is worth, well, circumstances change. You may lose interest in collecting altogether or a partucular range so you may want to sell. If you do, do you not want to get a decent return or do you want to get nothing? The former I reckon.

Moreover, when your wife or partner says "nice collection, dear, what it's worth," what are you going to say? "Oh, nothing, it's just worthless junk."

That's one thing about K & C. They hold and exceed their value. I'm not as interested in WW II anymore and have been selling to pay for what I'm interested in: ACW, both soldiers and books.

 

[Mitch]

Not all K&C hold their value for sure. Many many items are going for less than retail on the secondary market worldwide. Only some items hold value or increase and they are in the minority to the majority sold.

My wife has never asked what my collection is worth she just does not care. It also would not bother her that it was worthless junk as she knows I have an interest in it and thats all that matters. I could not care whether its devalued or increased since buying its not going anywhere. maybe, its all down to who the collectors are and what they want from collecting.

looks like all manufacturers are in the same boat with the same issues
Mitch

For those who say they don't care about what their collection is worth, well, circumstances change. You may lose interest in collecting altogether or a partucular range so you may want to sell. If you do, do you not want to get a decent return or do you want to get nothing? The former I reckon.

Moreover, when your wife or partner says "nice collection, dear, what it's worth," what are you going to say? "Oh, nothing, it's just worthless junk."

That's one thing about K & C. They hold and exceed their value. I'm not as interested in WW II anymore and have been selling to pay for what I'm interested in: ACW, both soldiers and books.

 

[wadepat]

I realize they are very different business models but the more I see of this retirement type thing the more I like the cottage type approach of always being able to order the set you want when you want it.

Hi Damian,

I very much appreciate and identify with your sentiments. The "retirement type thing" has been very frustrating for me and, as a result, I have spent more of my time and money with cottage industry folks. And,...after changing my purchasing priorities, I am more pleased with my hobby experience.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[trooper]

Hi Damian,

I very much appreciate and identify with your sentiments. The "retirement type thing" has been very frustrating for me and, as a result, I have spent more of my time and money with cottage industry folks. And,...after changing my purchasing priorities, I am more pleased with my hobby experience.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

This is the thing with the "cottage industries", they don't have to send half way round the world and order a container load at a time. They commission a figure, mould it, and put it on sale. If it sells so well and good, they carry on producing it. If it sticks they only produce it to order, they don't have a vast amount sitting on the shelves, taking up space and costing a fortune. And mistakes can be easily rectified immediately. At the recent London show I was talking to Nik Biberovic of ATS and was told that he had just sold several of the very first figures he had had made some fifteen years previously. So why retire sets? the only reason is that production is not under personal control. Chinese labour may be dirt cheap but it brings a lot of problems as well. Trooper

 

[jazzeum]

Hi Damian,

I very much appreciate and identify with your sentiments. The "retirement type thing" has been very frustrating for me and, as a result, I have spent more of my time and money with cottage industry folks. And,...after changing my purchasing priorities, I am more pleased with my hobby experience.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

I quite agree with Pat's and Damian's sentiments, which is why I like First Legion. I played the retirement game for many years, putting out money when I had not planned to do so. I am glad that it's a thing of the past.