N.f.l. 2012 (2 Viewers)

Warrior said:
Yeah great, good for him; he also hates the Patriots with a passion, I remember one of his rants on Inside the NFL prior to the Super Bowl in 2008, so his opinion on anything Patriots means jack to me.
Click to expand...

Wonder what Jill said {eek3}
 
Currahee Chris said:
I remember watching Eli Manning throw a 43 yard completion a couple weeks ago that put my Boys out of the playoffs- just essentially scurried around and let it loose- I sat there shaking my head saying "Eli Manning is the most underrated QB in the game today." I'd take Eli Manning any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Peyton. Peyton Manning has a losing record in the playoffs because PM quits. Eli fights, kicks and scratches to win. You never see that guy lay down and die. PM always seems to get frustrated if the Colts don't go out and plant a ton of points on the board right away- EM seems to get it that a football game is an hour long affair.
Click to expand...

I agree that Eli is underrated, and that there is no quit in him. I already think he is the best QB to ever play for a New York team - I would take him over Phil Simms, Y.A. Tittle and Joe Namath (I can't speak to Charlie Connerly, he is way before my time, and I have never even seen him play on film) - a spot I think he cements by winning the next two games. I also think if he wins his second superbowl, he puts himself in the conversation with the all time greats. However, even with a second superbowl win he is outside the top 10. For me number 1 is Johnny Unitas, 2. Joe Montana, 3. John Elway, 4. Tom Brady, 5. Troy Aikman, 6. Dan Marino, 7. Peyton Manning, 8. Bart Starr, 9. Terry Bradshaw, 10. Roger Stauback. As you can see, my list puts a premium on three factors: 1. Championships, 2. Touchdown to Interception Ratio, 3. Completion Percentage. For me, you can't leave any QB with 3 or more titles off the top ten list, and only one QB without a title makes the list, Dan Marino, who owned the best numbers in the other two categories.

As I said in my earlier post, it would take Eli winning his second superbowl this year (making him the 11th QB to win 2 or more), plus one more title in his career, to make my top 10 list. He has the record for most 4th quarter touchdowns in a season (15), and has defeated one all time great (Tom Brady) in a superbowl, and another all time great (Brett Favre) in an NFC title game, and knocked off someone I expect to be an all time great (Aaron Rogers) in a playoff game. If he continues his iron man streak to the point where he passes Peyton, and approaches Favre, he might enter the conversation for top 5 all time, but I can't see him there at this point in his career, even if he manages to win his next two games and thus takes his second superbowl, and even if he beats Brady a second time in doing so.
 
A problem with the list such as the one above is that you're comparing players from different eras and rules, e.g., Marino vs. Brady. In addition, it gives insufficient weight to players from the 40s through 60s. Where is Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh. From what I know of these greats of the game good players of today wouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. This is no insult to Eli Manning or other good QBs but they're just not in the same league.

A notable omission from the above list is Roethlisberger. He brings to mind some great QBs of yesteryear. Another one is Steve Young.

These lists are all very subjective.
 
jazzeum said:
A problem with the list such as the one above is that you're comparing players from different eras and rules, e.g., Marino vs. Brady. In addition, it gives insufficient weight to players from the 40s through 60s. Where is Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh. From what I know of these greats of the game good players of today wouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. This is no insult to Eli Manning or other good QBs but they're just not in the same league.

A notable omission from the above list is Roethlisberger. He brings to mind some great QBs of yesteryear. Another one is Steve Young.

These lists are all very subjective.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct, Brad, my list does not include any players who I personally have not seen playing either in person, on TV or on film. For me it is impossible to appropriately consider the skills of these amazing players, as (1) I have no experience of their skills and (2) frankly, it was a totally different, tougher, more physical game, played entirely outside, with very different rules. Perhaps I should have qualified my list as "the top 10 quarterbacks of the modern (TV Coverage) era."

Steve Young would be #11 on my list. He only won one title as a starter, and was outdueled by Aikman consistently throughout his career, only getting past the Cowboys to the superbowl once. He had the benefit of throwing to Jerry Rice, the greatest receiver, and arguably greatest player of all time. That being said, he had great numbers, was incredibly mobile, and his performance against the outmatched Chargers in his one superbowl was exceptional.

Ben Roethlisberger is, like Eli, on the outside looking in right now. He is 2-1 in 3 superbowls, and his numbers in 2 out of his 3 superbowls, are, frankly subpar. He is tough, but very injury prone. His greatest asset is his size, he extends plays by shrugging off hits, enabling his receivers to break open late. As of this minute, I have him in front of Eli, but if Eli wins his next two games he will move one slot ahead of Big Ben on my list, taking over first place on the QB class of 2004.

That being said, what a draft that was: San Diego took Eli #1, traded him to the Giants for the #4 pick, Philip Rivers, and the Steelers took Big Ben #8. Ben has two titles, Eli might get his 2nd ring this season, and, other than this season, Rivers statistically has out played them both. I would not at all be surprised if the 2004 QB Class had 5 or more Superbowl Rings before it is done.
 
jazzeum said:
A notable omission from the above list is Roethlisberger. He brings to mind some great QBs of yesteryear. Another one is Steve Young.

These lists are all very subjective.
Click to expand...

Another notable omission is Tim Tebow...{sm2}
 
I think that with the attention on the QBs from the last 25 or so years, we do forget about some players from the past, even those that are not on top 10 lists or would be considered great. In no special order, the following come to mind: Lamonica, John Hadl, Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts (who people basically know today because he does games), Babe Parilli, Jim Plunkett and Steve Grogan (great QB in my book). There are tons of others.
 
jazzeum said:
I think that with the attention on the QBs from the last 25 or so years, we do forget about some players from the past, even those that are not on top 10 lists or would be considered great. In no special order, the following come to mind: Lamonica, John Hadl, Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts (who people basically know today because he does games), Babe Parilli, Jim Plunkett and Steve Grogan (great QB in my book). There are tons of others.
Click to expand...
All great names that I really enjoyed watching at one time or another. John Brodie should be added along with Norm Van Brocklin. Jurgensen, Tarkenton, and Fouts were 3 of the best Qb's that ever threw a football but never really won the championships because of the teams they played for. They could shoot defenses apart as well as anyone who ever played. -- Al
 
There are so many. Brodie played for those older 49er teams that were good, just not Montana good. As for Fouts how can anyone forget that championship game against the Bengals that was played in like 30 below or whatever temperature. Speaking of the Bengals, what about Kenny Anderson. I know that Boomer Esiason on his daily show in NY says that he should be in the HOF.
 
Dan Foutz is right up there with Steve Young, just off the top ten all time for me. Kenny Anderson "the snake" and Boomer Esiason both had great superbowls, but were outdueled by the even greater Joe Montana.

As a Giants fan, my only recollection of Grogan is him getting the stuffing knocked out of him by the Bears in the superbowl. I can't recall ever seeing him play other than that.
 
Louis Badolato said:
As a Giants fan, my only recollection of Grogan is him getting the stuffing knocked out of him by the Bears in the superbowl. I can't recall ever seeing him play other than that.
Click to expand...

That was at the tail end of his career; after Eason got rattled by the Bears and the Patriots were down 23-3, they threw Grogan in there, who's knees were shot at that point and he got killed.

Yeah, that Bears team; how many Super Bowls did they win again?

Grogan as a young quarterback in 1976 broke the single season record for rushing touchdowns for a QB, he was his days version of Michael Vick.

As a Patriots fan, I remember as a kid in the old AFL/AFC days being force fed Giants games every Sunday and seeing Fran Tarkenton running for his life/getting killed every week in Yankee Stadium as those Giants teams back in those days stunk on ice.
 
Warrior said:
That was at the tail end of his career; after Eason got rattled by the Bears and the Patriots were down 23-3, they threw Grogan in there, who's knees were shot at that point and he got killed.

Yeah, that Bears team; how many Super Bowls did they win again?

Grogan as a young quarterback in 1976 broke the single season record for rushing touchdowns for a QB, he was his days version of Michael Vick.

As a Patriots fan, I remember as a kid in the old AFL/AFC days being force fed Giants games every Sunday and seeing Fran Tarkenton running for his life/getting killed every week in Yankee Stadium as those Giants teams back in those days stunk on ice.
Click to expand...
Just a note about that Bears SB team. I will never forgive Ditka for letting Refrigerator Perry carry the ball for that TD instead of letting HOF'er Walter Payton have his moment of glory in his only SB. It grates on me still.:mad: -- Al
 
Warrior said:
That was at the tail end of his career; after Eason got rattled by the Bears and the Patriots were down 23-3, they threw Grogan in there, who's knees were shot at that point and he got killed.

Yeah, that Bears team; how many Super Bowls did they win again?

Grogan as a young quarterback in 1976 broke the single season record for rushing touchdowns for a QB, he was his days version of Michael Vick.

As a Patriots fan, I remember as a kid in the old AFL/AFC days being force fed Giants games every Sunday and seeing Fran Tarkenton running for his life/getting killed every week in Yankee Stadium as those Giants teams back in those days stunk on ice.
Click to expand...

The Giants have the dubious distinction of having the two most sacked quarterbacks in league history: Phil Simms and Fran Tarkenton.
 
Looks like weathermen in San Fran are no better than weathermen here with 5 day forecasts: according to the latest weather reports, it will be clear and dry at game time on Sunday.
 
I'm going with the 49ers in an ugly game. The Giants are on a great run, but the odds of winning three straight playoff games including two in GB and SF have to be mighty slim. Harbaugh teams come to play. You have to beat them, they won't beat themselves. So my pick is SF 30 NYG 20.

After watching the Pats blow out Tebow and the Ravens struggle at home against a team with a third string QB, my head says that the Pats win. BUT not so fast my friend. My instinct says this is the Raven's year. It's now or never. A hungry team. They come out aggressive and steal this one. Their O plays better than expected. Ravens 27 Pats 24.
 
sammy719 said:
Time for weekend picks fellows,

Ravens 27
Pats 26

49er's 20
Giants 30
Click to expand...

What a superbowl that would be! The only two quarterbacks in the history of the league with 5 road playoff wins, two teams with tremendous defensive traditions, both of whom are playing great defense, a great running team against a great passing team. I'd sign up for it in a heartbeat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2024 XenForo Ltd.
Back
Top