Resin figures. (1 Viewer)

[Simpson & his donkey.]

Hi guy's is there any truth in the rumour that K&C are going to do a painted resin release in the future at a lesser price. I have seen the sculpts in the past that were resin and I thought they had far more detail and looked better than the actual painted metal figures. Just some thoughts and does anyone have a idea of what K&C have planned. Chris.{sm3}

 

[Guy]

I would certainly go for resin . The detail on the sculpts is tremendous; The ones I have in my collection just look great . And they would certainly be cheaper. Look at my BoB US medic 1/30 scale,hand painted that I recently finished.
guy

 

[Mitch]

Personally I don't believe these will be of the quality that we see or have come to expect in the model world. Why on earth would K&C release a better sculpted and less costly range of plastic figures which would see or could see the migration of the bulk of metal collectors go for good sculpts and cheaper???

The talk from the source is also of plastic AFV's also so, again if you do a decent sculpt then why pay the prices for the releases now?? Mind, some of the recent releases have been very light in weight so, maybe this was a tester to see if collectors would be bothered with the loss of weight (we all know the weight of K&C has been one of the most important factors used by collectors and dealers of this stuff)

No they certainly won't be junk but, don't expect absolutely cracking sculpts remember (del prado in plastic I think), these are not aimed at the mature collectors these are intended for these ''kiddies'' everyone seemingly wants in this hobby!!!! These will be IMO purely restricted for marching, saluting at attention and all the other multiple poses that more than likely have taken a hit in recent times with the monthly constant price rises we have seen and almost come to expect from K&C.

The next question is what price there are plenty of plastic figures out there and of a good quality but, they will be painted so, where will the cost be and again, if your wanting to garner interest from ''kids'' why paint them? Because they are hoping that it will attract the mature collector priced out of the current market!! Next question on my mind and a few others that have spoken to me is if you do plastic AFV's then there is no need for the gunk placed into the tracks as a ''safety from breakage'' so, in that one would expect the tracks and wheels to be better detailed and quality than the tracks are now on the expensive releases Now and, IMO K&C's Achilles heel for their AFV's.

No turning the industry on its ear for me by releasing plastic either unpainted or painted its not like they have invented the wheel and rocked the industry. plastic both painted and unpainted is a big part of the hobby and is actually doing well (my mate owns a model shop and is doing well in these mediums)

Nothing earth shattering the more earth shattering thing recently has been Figarti showing the industry that detail and use of mixed media does not have to be expensive by actually releasing a Tiger I that is £110 cheaper than the last version they did and looks to have no loss in detail because of it. Mind a while back a main manufacturer openly stated that manufacturing costs (the excuse for the ever rising costs) were not as high as was being made out but, that was overlooked by many.

Not interested in plastic figures now in terms of wanting them in my collection and won't be after K&C release them
Mitch

 

[braddinpa]

I have seen the FL unpainted figures and they look good. So I think you can do a resin/plastic figure in good detail. My only question is that I thought the cost was actually in the painting. So will the painting suffer?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

As I posted weeks ago in closed threads. There may be some "material" changes coming from the manufacturers, especially K&C. I stress the word "MAY" and who knows when. But remember - polystone, plastic, metal and resin are all forms of resin. :smile2:

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

As I posted weeks ago in closed threads. There may be some "material" changes coming from the manufacturers, especially K&C. I stress the word "MAY" and who knows when. But remember - polystone, plastic, metal and resin are all forms of resin. :smile2:

Terry

There's nothing inherently wrong with companies changing media and painting styles. It's been done in the past. You never know - figures may improve and be available at lower prices. It really comes down to the look - details in the mould and painting. This isn't necissarily a bad thing - it's just changes. The downside in the near future, as the manufacturers experiment with different mixes of media, we won't be to rely on a photo and trust that the next model from company X will be the same as the last several. I think it will become even more important for people on these forums to comment on models they bought and how there are differences from the last few.

Terry

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I have seen the FL unpainted figures and they look good. So I think you can do a resin/plastic figure in good detail. My only question is that I thought the cost was actually in the painting. So will the painting suffer?

I recently talked to a K&C source about this topic. The details are exciting and best left for K&C to reveal but from what I will say is when the current and new figures are placed
side by side, they are hard to tell apart which is .......a very good thing IMO :wink2:

 

[BLReed]

.. when the current and new figures are placed
side by side, they are hard to tell apart ....

Kind of like the [P] figures, eh!:salute::

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

I would certainly go for resin . The detail on the sculpts is tremendous; The ones I have in my collection just look great . And they would certainly be cheaper. Look at my BoB US medic 1/30 scale,hand painted that I recently finished.
guy
View attachment 136391


View attachment 136392

That level of detail and accuracy would be hard to ignore and would be quite exciting.

 

[joesgis]

Mitch,
Very interesting post on all fronts. Perhaps K & C is phasing out metal figures altogether? If so they therefore would not be so concerned with the migration of metal collectors over to resin figures that could otherwise potentially present a scenario where K & C would be competing with themselves, gaining traction in one area while proportionately losing it in another. That is of course assuming the figures are of similar sculpting & painting quality as PA44, with feet on the ground, noted that they are from his observation. That being said, perhaps an internal competition between figure construction choices is strategically intentional by K & C as it would allow for the two mediums to fight it out amongst each other with the less popular option becoming extinct; the evolution of the hobby. In any case, it's riveting to watch this unfold (no pun intended) as the hobby has really become much like an open laboratory as the scientists experiment away.

For instance I too found Figarti's introduction of their new Tiger I at a lower cost while retaining great detail to be very exciting, intriguing news. But for some reason the details just trickle out and Figarti doesn't capitalize on what I see as significant shift in construction and perhaps in the hobby overall. There is a disconnect with Figarti in that regard. They could better use this forum as others do to generate excitement and announce such innovative change.

Regarding manufacturing costs, I do recall another main manufacturer openly stating on the form that the escalating manufacturing costs were not as high as they were being made out to be. I didn't overlook that comment from them. I thought at the time it was a not so thinly veiled attack on K & C et al, as this other main manufacturer wanted to essentially say that the others were exploiting the situation and escalating prices more than they needed to but not his outfit. But here's the element that may have been overlooked: Coming on the heels of this proclamation this other main manufacturer's product, IMHO, took a significant nosedive in quality. I recall that when it was pointed out to this manufacturer their response was along the lines of we meant to ask your opinion on whether you wanted to pay the same prices for lesser quality or pay higher prices for the same quality level you were used to and had come to expect. Turns out they apparently decided on their own to keep prices the same and inferior product, albeit at very good pricing, abounded.

Joe

 

[Mitch]

Joe...

I am not sure if metal will be phased out but, if prices keep constantly rising as they do month on month perhaps the hand will be forced who knows? I agree that there may have been some not so veiled sharpness in the comment on production prices but, I take what a manufacturer who knows to be quite important. I do think we are almost hypnotised into believing that production costs at base level for X amount of figures are astronomical when from my little inquiries with people in the industry they don't seem to be in the bracket that make me think wow!

I also will not take certain members comments on board regarding figures and quality because I feel some would say this irregardless of whether they were different or not. I want to see pictures myself and not take the word of people who see everything as excellent and unbelievable that is released when often, it is obvious it is not.

I do agree that what Figarti is doing is interesting but only in terms of price as it shows that contrary to popular myth it can be done and lowering has not meant the sun won't rise! Figarti have always (I may be wrong) used mixed media in their AFV's which is why I am more focused on the price point. I don't understand why they don't communicate with collectors more about what they do. I don't always like some of the innovations they bring to the party but, innovations in production they most certainly are and they always seem to be at the forefront.

Interesting times it certainly is
Mitch

Mitch,
Very interesting post on all fronts. Perhaps K & C is phasing out metal figures altogether? If so they therefore would not be so concerned with the migration of metal collectors over to resin figures that could otherwise potentially present a scenario where K & C would be competing with themselves, gaining traction in one area while proportionately losing it in another. That is of course assuming the figures are of similar sculpting & painting quality as PA44, with feet on the ground, noted that they are from his observation. That being said, perhaps an internal competition between figure construction choices is strategically intentional by K & C as it would allow for the two mediums to fight it out amongst each other with the less popular option becoming extinct; the evolution of the hobby. In any case, it's riveting to watch this unfold (no pun intended) as the hobby has really become much like an open laboratory as the scientists experiment away.

For instance I too found Figarti's introduction of their new Tiger I at a lower cost while retaining great detail to be very exciting, intriguing news. But for some reason the details just trickle out and Figarti doesn't capitalize on what I see as significant shift in construction and perhaps in the hobby overall. There is a disconnect with Figarti in that regard. They could better use this forum as others do to generate excitement and announce such innovative change.

Regarding manufacturing costs, I do recall another main manufacturer openly stating on the form that the escalating manufacturing costs were not as high as they were being made out to be. I didn't overlook that comment from them. I thought at the time it was a not so thinly veiled attack on K & C et al, as this other main manufacturer wanted to essentially say that the others were exploiting the situation and escalating prices more than they needed to but not his outfit. But here's the element that may have been overlooked: Coming on the heels of this proclamation this other main manufacturer's product, IMHO, took a significant nosedive in quality. I recall that when it was pointed out to this manufacturer their response was along the lines of we meant to ask your opinion on whether you wanted to pay the same prices for lesser quality or pay higher prices for the same quality level you were used to and had come to expect. Turns out they apparently decided on their own to keep prices the same and inferior product, albeit at very good pricing, abounded.

Joe

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Mitch,
Very interesting post on all fronts. Perhaps K & C is phasing out metal figures altogether? If so they therefore would not be so concerned with the migration of metal collectors over to resin figures that could otherwise potentially present a scenario where K & C would be competing with themselves, gaining traction in one area while proportionately losing it in another. That is of course assuming the figures are of similar sculpting & painting quality as PA44, with feet on the ground, noted that they are from his observation. That being said, perhaps an internal competition between figure construction choices is strategically intentional by K & C as it would allow for the two mediums to fight it out amongst each other with the less popular option becoming extinct; the evolution of the hobby. In any case, it's riveting to watch this unfold (no pun intended) as the hobby has really become much like an open laboratory as the scientists experiment away.

For instance I too found Figarti's introduction of their new Tiger I at a lower cost while retaining great detail to be very exciting, intriguing news. But for some reason the details just trickle out and Figarti doesn't capitalize on what I see as significant shift in construction and perhaps in the hobby overall. There is a disconnect with Figarti in that regard. They could better use this forum as others do to generate excitement and announce such innovative change.

Regarding manufacturing costs, I do recall another main manufacturer openly stating on the form that the escalating manufacturing costs were not as high as they were being made out to be. I didn't overlook that comment from them. I thought at the time it was a not so thinly veiled attack on K & C et al, as this other main manufacturer wanted to essentially say that the others were exploiting the situation and escalating prices more than they needed to but not his outfit. But here's the element that may have been overlooked: Coming on the heels of this proclamation this other main manufacturer's product, IMHO, took a significant nosedive in quality. I recall that when it was pointed out to this manufacturer their response was along the lines of we meant to ask your opinion on whether you wanted to pay the same prices for lesser quality or pay higher prices for the same quality level you were used to and had come to expect. Turns out they apparently decided on their own to keep prices the same and inferior product, albeit at very good pricing, abounded.

Joe

Joe, For me it was only a conversation with someone in the know. When someone experienced in the business says the figures are in fact hard to tell apart when placed side by side I will take that as their own opinion or observation
on the topic. Just sharing a bit of info on the subject without stepping out of bounds here. Already some sniping comments are flowing so I will leave it at that :salute::

 

[Panzer ace]

At the risk of needing to change my forum name to Captain Obvious, my bet is that those that like K&C will love the new material figures and those that do not like K&C will hate the new figures.

 

[joesgis]

Joe, For me it was only a conversation with someone in the know. When someone experienced in the business says the figures are in fact hard to tell apart when placed side by side I will take that as their own opinion or observation
on the topic. Just sharing a bit of info on the subject without stepping out of bounds here. Already some sniping comments are flowing so I will leave it at that :salute::

PA,
I misinterpreted what you wrote as you having seen some new examples first hand, sorry about that. Thanks for sharing the info!

Joe

 

[PanzerAce1944]

PA,
I misinterpreted what you wrote as you having seen some new examples first hand, sorry about that. Thanks for sharing the info!

Joe

Joe, No Problemo ! I was just passing on some initial info which is already getting turned upside down with in depth analysis and commentary. We are only talking about an existing Toy Soldier company making things in a different
material, same visual appeal, at a much lower price ! Take Care Joe :salute::

At the risk of needing to change my forum name to Captain Obvious, my bet is that those that like K&C will love the new material figures and those that do not like K&C will hate the new figures.

PA, I think that is probably a fair statement. No matter what K&C does the same group will throw stones to no end. I guess we will all know the details in the near future.
Then we can Psycho analyze Toy Soldiers some more {sm2}

 

[Mitch]

I don't think its that black and white though I am sure that some think it is. I collect K&C and like a lot of their stuff. It does not however mean that I have to agree with everything they say do or produce. Disliking decisions and products does not mean you hate the company.
Mitch

At the risk of needing to change my forum name to Captain Obvious, my bet is that those that like K&C will love the new material figures and those that do not like K&C will hate the new figures.

 

[Panzer ace]

I don't think its that black and white though I am sure that some think it is. I collect K&C and like a lot of their stuff. It does not however mean that I have to agree with everything they say do or produce. Disliking decisions and products does not mean you hate the company.
Mitch

Makes sense.

Just out of curiosity, what was the last K&C piece that you liked and purchased?

 

[joesgis]

Joe...

"I am not sure if metal will be phased out but, if prices keep constantly rising as they do month on month perhaps the hand will be forced who knows?"
It might indeed be inevitable.

"I agree that there may have been some not so veiled sharpness in the comment on production prices but, I take what a manufacturer who knows to be quite important."

Agree- what a manufacturer knows is indeed quite important, but the actions of manufacturer who you paraphrased indicated that even he may have "misjudged" the impact of rising production costs.

"I do think we are almost hypnotised into believing that production costs at base level for X amount of figures are astronomical when from my little inquiries with people in the industry they don't seem to be in the bracket that make me think wow!"

It's one of those things that's hard to discuss because so much of it is speculative. We don't have the hard facts, production nos., etc.. I'm sure your inquiries w/ people in the industry have garnered significant insight about the true nature of the thing, and maybe production costs aren't as extreme as we have been led to believe. I really don't know, but I do know from the observable product of the other main manufacturer you brought up that at virtually the same point in time they implied others TS makers were something of nothing, their own castings and AFV's took a turn for the worse.

"I also will not take certain members comments on board regarding figures and quality because I feel some would say this irregardless of whether they were different or not. I want to see pictures myself and not take the word of people who see everything as excellent and unbelievable that is released when often, it is obvious it is not."

Agree- It's best to reserve analysis until after the product is thoroughly viewed with one's own eyes, eliminating perceived bias, not to mention I based my commentary off of one person's opinion which was determined to be second hand news after all.

"I do agree that what Figarti is doing is interesting but only in terms of price as it shows that contrary to popular myth it can be done and lowering has not meant the sun won't rise!"
Yes, they've shown it can be done in this case. But I wonder if the Tiger I price level can be sustained across all future offerings, or if only on pieces of higher than the usual Figarti production nos.

"Figarti have always (I may be wrong) used mixed media in their AFV's which is why I am more focused on the price point. I don't understand why they don't communicate with collectors more about what they do. I don't always like some of the innovations they bring to the party but, innovations in production they most certainly are and they always seem to be at the forefront."

Yes, Figarti has always used mixed media in their AFV's, so the focus on price point is spot on. I don't like all the innovations they come up with either, but like you said innovations they are. If there was ever a time for live experimentation, it is indeed now. Figarti seems to be at the tip of the spear of most of the hobby's innovations, but they are so quiet when it comes to promoting these things.

"Interesting times it certainly is"
Mitch

Absolutely!
Joe

 

[The Military Workshop]

This subject is a good example of "Chinese whispers".

Until such time as K&C announces the first items or makes an announcement about the intro line then what we have is various comments based on perhaps multiple conversations Andy has had in various places and also some 2nd hand versions. In some cases I suspect he may say more to some than to others. I have been present when Andy has said various things or answered certain questions and some of the subsequent comments on this forum were not how I understood what was said.

So far my favourite in this theme is those who seem to believe or expect there would be three versions of the same item which has been mentioned a few times in the past. As if there is not enough competition out there that Andy would set up lines that would dilute his collectors amongst three choices.

Anyway as the saying goes "keep calm and carry on".

Brett

 

[wayne556517]

All i remember was something about the Alamo,doesn't interest me so i went back to looking at the figures that Andy had bought along (I was hungover and had a huge weekend ^&grin)