Retired Figures - What happens to them? (1 Viewer)

I have to agree that unless a person does not collect a manufacturer and only posts nothing but negative comments, or has a hate campaign against K&C, or is touting another manufacturer, he should be able to post what he wants. Especially on the K&C threads which IMO is the largest and most open for discussion section of the Forum. Lots of opinions - positive and negative are posted here.

Terry
 
The issue, I think, is comments such as this:



If you think Andy doesnt read comments such as these, even when in other parts of the forum, and/or doesnt, in fact, take offense and/or would strongly repudiates such comments, especially as K&C is by far the dominate player in the WWII range, then I think you are kidding yourself.

Open Forum and honest discussion means being able to accept both acolades as well as criticisms......I collect K/C.... ....BUT I also collect other manufacturers as well ......The issue of retired K/C re-marketing prices is obviously a subject that some folks are interested in....thus the title of this thread
 
Vezzolf,

You commented :

"The issue of retired K/C re-marketing prices is obviously a subject that some folks are interested in....thus the title of this thread"

This issue seems to concern you more than most and your previous comment about Buyer Beware is the right attitude. However try to understand that Andy/K&C has no control over what sells for what on Ebay.

A fellow forum member (thanks, you know who you are !) just forwarded me a link to a page showing "retired" items and pricing and all I can say is I am sitting on a goldmine (NOT !!). I am excited to find out a "retired" item I have 5 of, but is still available from K&C, is actually "worth" four times as much as I thought. Now if only I could convince my customers that it will be a bargain when I try to sell it for double RRP.

If you hear Simmo has died laughing and his donkey is up for adoption you will know I tried.

Excuse me whilst I create a new price list !!!

Regards
Brett
 
Im off to First legion thread to have a look see what negative **** i can post over there...............:eek:
 
No Wayne.....DON'T DO IT:eek::eek:....Your likely to become a fan of First Legion if you go there too often:D:D
 
Vezzolf,

You commented :

"The issue of retired K/C re-marketing prices is obviously a subject that some folks are interested in....thus the title of this thread"

This issue seems to concern you more than most and your previous comment about Buyer Beware is the right attitude. However try to understand that Andy/K&C has no control over what sells for what on Ebay.

A fellow forum member (thanks, you know who you are !) just forwarded me a link to a page showing "retired" items and pricing and all I can say is I am sitting on a goldmine (NOT !!). I am excited to find out a "retired" item I have 5 of, but is still available from K&C, is actually "worth" four times as much as I thought. Now if only I could convince my customers that it will be a bargain when I try to sell it for double RRP.

If you hear Simmo has died laughing and his donkey is up for adoption you will know I tried.

Excuse me whilst I create a new price list !!!

Regards
Brett

Brett, If your a reputable authorized K/C dealer you won't do that...You'll only loose your loyal customer base.:eek:
 
No Wayne.....DON'T DO IT:eek::eek:....Your likely to become a fan of First Legion if you go there too often:D:D

After seeing this pic no chance matey..................:eek:
They look like they need a good feed...........:D plus the shipping would kill me i could of bought all of K+C + Figarti + TGM + Collectors showcase just with the postage costs to Australia..........................:D:D:D:D
 

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Brett

I have always found you to be a good man and a collector who I have enjoyed talking with over the years. However, on this point we disagree.

Yes - no question that I pay full retail price and taxes on the items I purchase and do sell them on Ebay from time to time - that is above board and paying full freight for the item - is what I call fair cricket. Fair Market.

When a dealer takes advantage of his unique business ability to pay way below retail cost - hold on to retired items - then sell them way above the retail cost - well, I do think thats taking advantage. If it works for you fine - hey, how you spend your money and do your collecting is none of my business. I do have an opinion on dealers who abuse their unique position with K&C and then use it on Ebay or other places. Just my opinion.

It doesn't mean I think you are a bad person - I simply disagree with you on this business practice.




Thanks guys, the specially commissioned polystone RAAF Dambuster Lancaster with full crew will be delivered to you next week !!!!

Howard,
Not so sure about your first sentence but appreciate the compliment.
Simmo,
Unfortunately the van got towed away as beyond repair and I think it may now be part of a Hyundai !
Wayne,
Thanks for kind offer but let me install the hidden cameras first !!!

Actually the resale of retired items issue is very interesting. Simmo made reference to a recent offer by me to him of a DD51 Churchill (my asking price was A$135 which is a A$ price I recall for the item). Original price was US$89 but much depends upon A$ exchange rate. Ron may be interested to recall he sold two DD51's (5 days apart) in June 2009 for US$199 each. Even assuming he paid normal retail price his margin and $ profit seems to be better than mine.

Regards
Brett
 
Ron,

As I keep indicating we are talking a very small number of items in a year. I would say about 20 odd in last year (with about 15 in one particular month). That group would have been saved over a period of years (three Vietnam sets, an old FJ set and a Matilda were the cream of the crop from my first order). I would hardly call it a practice. You might be "confusing" my "practices" with some other dealers.

I have told this story before but about 6 years ago a smart Aussie collector realised I had original Arnhem sets for sale at normal retail (on consgnment from a collector who had agreed price). At that time I also had two Winter Panthers, Corsair and Galland ME109 and some FJ's and a few other items. He bought the lot. At that time Ebay was not something I was aware of and had no idea what they were worth on Ebay. During the conversation the collector mentioned Ebay and that night when I had a look I could see what I had sold him was valued at probably 4 x on Ebay. He already had some of them and bought them mainly for resale (admittedly to fund his collection). Unfortunately I am no longer sitting on such items but if I were I guess I should, according to your view, sell them at normal retail.

I have some retired items currently on my shelf for shop customer sale at orignal retail when I have just seen identical item go on Ebay for more than double ( a regular occurrence). I actually removed them from my web page as I was getting emails from overseas people who I know are active Ebayers who were looking to make a quick profit. One was even trying to get a discount off normal retail. I have recently sold an item at Buy It Now to an Ebayer I know regularly lists that item at double.

Anyway the debate about dealers, collectors re-selling etc will never end. If I do think I have anything worth putting on Ebay Auction I will list on TF. If total strangers want to bid it up high that is fine by me but my preference is always to sell to Aussie collectors and build up my relationship with them.

My final example involves a good regular customer who normally collects WWII. Last week he was thinking about going into Medieval and said if I only had the retired ladder set he would go into a new series. Lucky for me I had found one about a month earlier during a shop re-arrange (not even put aside but just a case of not realising what it was because of the white box). He got it at current normal US$ retail and we were both happy. I have no idea what that set goes for on Ebay.

Been a quiet day in the shop today. The Australians are probably all excited becuase our new female Prime Minister has just announced an election today, which will be next month.

Regards to all,
Brett
 
If I would have been asked who of the forum members would complain about retired items being sold for inflated prices on ebay/in a shop, wether by a dealer or a collector, Ron would definetely be one of the very last ones who would have come to mind.
Actually, I thought that Ron's first post on the subject in this thread was meant to be a joke.
Konrad
 
I can't believe we are having this discussion again (well actually I can) Seriously guys it's the same fight with the same people. It is so tiring and puts people off. We are supposed to be encouraging new comers and get them posting. Why would they when they see posts like this!!
 
I can't believe we are having this discussion again (well actually I can) Seriously guys it's the same fight with the same people. It is so tiring and puts people off. We are supposed to be encouraging new comers and get them posting. Why would they when they see posts like this!!

Look - This is a very real discussion about the business practices of dealers who abuse their unique business position in relation to the secondary market. No one is requiring anyone to read this thread - if you don't like it - move on to the next.

I think - any "newby" poster can actually learn from this conversation or probally has an opinion themselves about the practice. Thats what an open forum is about - discussion.

Now, yes there are those posters who feel they must make personal attacks to prove their point or be silly in protecting a friend - but, hopefully the moderator will remove those postings and keep the discussion on the matter at hand. With the exception of the misguided poster - it has been a good discussion.
 
I am interested in what position the dealers are abusing? There are no rules about who buys what and who holds on to what for how ever long they want. Not that I am aware of. I think the point has been confused IMO since this post was placed.

Everyone knows that old sets will go for high prices and, that they are rare and, expect such premium. The other debate seems to me to centre around dealers buying products at the trade prices they get and, hoarding them in the view that they will be able to do this easily at a later date. I just think that some of the sets that are coiming out in recent years there is a handful I could think of which, have become sought after. one being the sigrune horse from the LAH series. To think that people know what will become sought after is like asking how long is a piece of string?

Nobody really knows. At one time you could with some ceratinty say SL's will be a good buy as they are well sought after. Now though in recent times, many have still not sold out and, at present in UK and HK the recovery vehicle from D-Day is still available, so, is the SL taifun Christmas sets and, one of the Hawker Hurricane. Recently, I saw Churchills generals still on HK and, others including heydrichs assasination took ages to dissapear. so, so much for predictions.

I think I have come across more collectors than dealers trying to inflate the prices of their sets when selling on the secondary market than dealers. I said the other day its an argument over nothing as, it cannot be policed and certainly IMO not one which, K&C should even try. To tell people they can only sell at RRP is a recipe for disaster, IMO.

Should such issues come into force how can you disprove a dealer is hoarding a set which, he has or, just has no interest from customers. Much of the rarity of K&C comes from the old stuff?

If everyone knows who these apparant dealers are then name and shame them and then others will not buy and, will be forced to cease the manner in which they operate. I think collectors as a whole are in a better position to police their own hobby better than the manufacturer and, calls fro self imposed unworkable regulations imposed on dealers.

Should it happen which, IMO it will not, our hobby will be the one to suffer which, always is the case when small numbers do things some, do not like,the majority are always the ones who suffer the most.
Mitch
 
Look - This is a very real discussion about the business practices of dealers who abuse their unique business position in relation to the secondary market. No one is requiring anyone to read this thread - if you don't like it - move on to the next.

I think - any "newby" poster can actually learn from this conversation or probally has an opinion themselves about the practice. Thats what an open forum is about - discussion.

Now, yes there are those posters who feel they must make personal attacks to prove their point or be silly in protecting a friend - but, hopefully the moderator will remove those postings and keep the discussion on the matter at hand. With the exception of the misguided poster - it has been a good discussion.

You make it sound like an epidemic !

I try to view all posts to keep a harmonious balance on the forum.
 
I am interested in what position the dealers are abusing? There are no rules about who buys what and who holds on to what for how ever long they want. Not that I am aware of. I think the point has been confused IMO since this post was placed.

Everyone knows that old sets will go for high prices and, that they are rare and, expect such premium. The other debate seems to me to centre around dealers buying products at the trade prices they get and, hoarding them in the view that they will be able to do this easily at a later date. I just think that some of the sets that are coiming out in recent years there is a handful I could think of which, have become sought after. one being the sigrune horse from the LAH series. To think that people know what will become sought after is like asking how long is a piece of string?

Nobody really knows. At one time you could with some ceratinty say SL's will be a good buy as they are well sought after. Now though in recent times, many have still not sold out and, at present in UK and HK the recovery vehicle from D-Day is still available, so, is the SL taifun Christmas sets and, one of the Hawker Hurricane. Recently, I saw Churchills generals still on HK and, others including heydrichs assasination took ages to dissapear. so, so much for predictions.

I think I have come across more collectors than dealers trying to inflate the prices of their sets when selling on the secondary market than dealers. I said the other day its an argument over nothing as, it cannot be policed and certainly IMO not one which, K&C should even try. To tell people they can only sell at RRP is a recipe for disaster, IMO.

Should such issues come into force how can you disprove a dealer is hoarding a set which, he has or, just has no interest from customers. Much of the rarity of K&C comes from the old stuff?

If everyone knows who these apparant dealers are then name and shame them and then others will not buy and, will be forced to cease the manner in which they operate. I think collectors as a whole are in a better position to police their own hobby better than the manufacturer and, calls fro self imposed unworkable regulations imposed on dealers.

Should it happen which, IMO it will not, our hobby will be the one to suffer which, always is the case when small numbers do things some, do not like,the majority are always the ones who suffer the most.
Mitch

An excellent post Mitch and makes much sense. The thread has drifted from the original question posted. If you see a dealer selling retired pieces at inflated prices the the answer is simple don't buy from them, no-one is forcing you !

I still stand by my origianl statement, this subject has been done to death. Lets move on, not so much as a discussion more of a witch hunt IMO.
 
This issue has been discussed and not resolved and likely never will be...But this dicussion is at least "important and informative" in that new comers to this hobby will be on guard for unscupulous selling behaviours by both collectors and authorized K/C dealers alike for "RETIRED ITEMS".....The problem can be 1)condoned, 2)criticized...AND.... 3) IGNORED (condoned)........but it remains.........Buyers beware....E-nuff said
 
2 cents:

1. Cannot get upset with any dealer who while doing inventory makes a lucky find! I have been the benefactor of these finds many times over the year at both retail and higher, you come to an agreement that is a fair price. Willing buyer, willing seller, FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.

2. Yes there are a few small dealers who buy extras with the express intent of holding back. If my regular dealer did this to me (ie telling me they are out of stock when not), I would be upset. That said, there are plenty of dealers who have old stock who are targeted by capitalists looking to resell. THATS OK TOO. Again, FREE MARKET CAPITALISM. Remember, both the dealer and collector took the risk of buying the product, holding in inventory and hoping to make a sale. Hard to fault anybody here.

3. Many dealers buy old collections and then resell. NO PROBLEM THERE> Willing Buyer/Willing Seller.

This market is full of educated buyers, we all make purchasing decisions based on our own economic realities. There really is no blame here.

Vezzolf, you don't like the retired collectibles market, you have beat this point to near death, I understand your point as you know, but as I have said, it is a reality. OLD OLD K&C will always sell at a "ridiculous" price b/c it was not made in many quantities and collectors want to find it. (JUST like Lionel Trains, American Flyer Trains, Royal Doulton China, Waterford, etc.) Collectibles have had a healthy "Retired" market for many years before King & Country.

Now, buyers that are willing to do a little homework in purchasing 2005 to present Retirements will not pay ridiculous prices. "Lazy" Buyers will.

I sell duplicates and/or no longer wanted soldiers on ebay. I put a price I am willing to sell them for. Most of the time they sell, some do not, NO biggie, its my risk.

In the end, this is a personal decision on which everyone thinks quite differently, but keep in mind, it is a FREE MARKET, no one is forcing you to buy and quite frankly, the PRICES are what they are. Belly ache all you want, but the smallest violins in the world will be the only sympathy. It is something we all live with and decide what we want to do.

Final note, King & Country has the benefit of a very consistent after market of the "modern" toy soldier makers. Trophy of Wales enjoys one too as well as a host of other "retired" manufacturers. ANY GIVEN DAY can bring a new high price or low one, that is the beauty of this game. SO, instead of constantly causing yourself or others grief, enjoy the ride and put the energy into finding some goodies for your collections.

This post it to no one in particular, just my views.

TD
 
Excellent post TDubel! That really discussed several points which everyone has. We all win some and lose some in our endeavor to find certain pieces. I've paid inflated prices and also received inflated prices from some sales but my money goes right back into the Toy Soldier Hobby Collection which in the end helps out the manufactures to keep producing and improving the great lines out there. I just wished I had more display cabinets. My wife is about to leave me. :D
 

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