RUSSIAN hunter. (3 Viewers)

[OzDigger]

I agree with tryfon.
I am still convinced that FL WWII range is noticeably small in regard of all the other brands such William Britain, JJD, Team Miniatures, Thomas Gunn, King and Country, ....
If it is a "true" 1:30 scale, so what about other FL ranges such napoleonic, Anglo-Zulu war and even waffen SS (in the same range) : 1:25 scale ?.
And this would mean that all the other brands would be completely off scale with "huge" figures ???.
In a next post, I will add photos of 1:35 scale plastic figures to assemble for comparison ( such Dragon DML, Miniart, Alpine, Tamiya, ...).
In the meantime, merry Christmas to all !!!

I agree with You, Tryfon and the many other collectors that have concerns about the small size of WW2 First Legion Figures.

I look forward to seeing your photos of 1:35 scale Plastic Kit Figures compared to First Legion WW2 Figures.

However that raises another concern; "Are First Legion Tanks and Armoured Cars etc small in comparison to 1:30 Vehicles made by other Brands?"

It would be interesting to also see photos comparing First Legion WW2 Tanks to 1:35 plastic kit Tanks.

 

[Mastercom10]

I agree with You, Tryfon and the many other collectors that have concerns about the small size of WW2 First Legion Figures.

I look forward to seeing your photos of 1:35 scale Plastic Kit Figures compared to First Legion WW2 Figures.

However that raises another concern; "Are First Legion Tanks and Armoured Cars etc small in comparison to 1:30 Vehicles made by other Brands?"

It would be interesting to also see photos comparing First Legion WW2 Tanks to 1:35 plastic kit Tanks.

Here are some photos comparing FL T-34 with TAMIYA 1/35th T-34.
It is obvious that FL is bigger, so 1/30th scale is very likely.
I guess logically that other FL vehicles have also this same scale.
Effectively, it would be interesting to compare side by side FL tanks to other brands.
I can't do it myself because, for the moment, I have no other FL items.
Perhaps some collectors on this forum could do this ?.
- Panthers with JJD
- Tiger I with War Park
- PzKw IV with War Park and Thomas Gunn
- PzKw III with War Park and Thomas Gunn
- Hetzer with Thomas Gunn
- StuG III with War Park
- Shermans with William Britain
- M-10 TD with (future) William Britain

 

[Panzer ace]

Apologies for restarting any conflicts

I'm not sure how long you've been collecting FL but Matt " Oz Digger" has one less FL figure or product then Wayne which means if your bad in math he owns absolutely none.

He has been a long-time troll of all things First Legion so respecting his post when it comes to FL is not really the way to go and by doing so you've already taking the bait.

Its best to just laugh, ignore and move on. But I must say it is funny to see after all these years he is still holding fast.

Happy New Year

Apologies for restarting any past conflicts.

I just wanted a clarification of what “falling apart” meant.

I usually skip over threads/posts that mention scale as I do not mix manufacturers in my displays.

 

[Hunter Rose]

I just wanted a clarification of what “falling apart” meant.

A couple of First Legion's releases in the past had issues with breakage. These were the old releases that First Legion listed as "not warrantied" when they were running their Big Sale during COVID. The ones I can think of are the first release mounted Samurai, some of the early Napoleonic mounted Russian Hussars, and a couple others. The American Revolutionary War mounted Continental Dragoons also had some issues with sword breakage (I had to exchange a couple of them).

These are all really old releases that came out like 8-10 years ago. It comes across as a bit disingenuous in my opinion when folks post about these old issues as if these were wide-spread and still ongoing issues today.

Yes First Legion miniatures are more likely to break than a K&C miniature. That should not be a surprise to anyone. That is just the reality of physics and the price you pay for all that amazing intricate and scale accurate details you get from First Legion figures.

Just my opinion as an owner of a LOT of First Legion figures.

 

[Hunter Rose]

Here are some photos comparing FL T-34 with TAMIYA 1/35th T-34.
It is obvious that FL is bigger, so 1/30th scale is very likely.
I guess logically that other FL vehicles have also this same scale.
Effectively, it would be interesting to compare side by side FL tanks to other brands.
I can't do it myself because, for the moment, I have no other FL items.
Perhaps some collectors on this forum could do this ?.
- Panthers with JJD
- Tiger I with War Park
- PzKw IV with War Park and Thomas Gunn
- PzKw III with War Park and Thomas Gunn
- Hetzer with Thomas Gunn
- StuG III with War Park
- Shermans with William Britain
- M-10 TD with (future) William Britain

I'm a huge rivet counter and tank fanatic. My quest in this hobby has always been to get a scale accurate 1/30 tank collection. At one time or another, I've owned most every tank by every manufacturer.

I used to post threads here and at Hobby Bunker where I did the 1/30 scale math conversions of different tanks, measured the models, and then posted my results. Search for them if you want to review all those.

The short answer to your question above is:
- Most all of the First Legion tanks are an accurate true 1/30 scale (Opel Blitz, Sd.Kfz. 222, Sd.Kfz. 232, Sd.Kfz. 7 Prime Mover, Panzer IV F1 & F2, Panther, Tiger, Sherman, Jeep, T-34/76, T-34/85, T-70).
- The First Legion Stug IIIs and Panzer IIIs are slightly oversize (somewhere like 1/29 or 1/29.5 scale) as is the Panzer IV Ausf H and Stug IV.
- All the John Jenkins tanks so far are an accurate true 1/30 scale.
- The War Park Panzer III, Panzer IV, Tiger, Hummel are all slightly oversize (somewhere like 1/29 or 1/29.25 scale depending on tank)
- The Xuan Hua tanks have all been accurate true 1/30 scale so far

Remember, the difference between a 1/29 scale tank and a 1/30 scale tank is a couple millimeters. Nowadays, the scale discrepancy is so small, it's not something I even worry about anymore, unless I am in a mood to pick nits.

In my opinion, the scale differences today are so small it is a non-issue. I mix and match JJD, FL, War Park, Xuan Hua, and W. Britains tanks all the time with their figures. I also use TGM tanks/vehicles.

If a combo does not work, like the "large" first release War Park Grey German tank riders with a JJD Stug, I just don't worry about it in the least. I would just use FL grey German tank riders and the "small" later release War Park Grey German tank riders. There's been so many figures and vehicles released at this point, that it's simple to find size compatible combos when mixing and matching manufacturers. Just accept that not EVERY combo will work, and don't try to force a round peg into a square hole.

 

[bridport]

I have no loyalty to any manufacturer.

I am merely an admirer of quality & accuracy in all figures.

First Legion quality and sculpting is first class. They are superb figures!

But the issue on scale within different ranges is blatantly obvious to anyone who collects them.

The Fallschirmjäger are positively tiny compared to Waffen SS. They would look ridiculous posed together.

But each range, stand alone, is superb.

To state otherwise is blind fanboy fanaticism gone mad!!

 

[Hunter Rose]

Mastercom, since you've asked a number of different threads, here's the FL Panther next to a JJD Panther.

The FL Panther is in the process of getting modified; the paint and markings have been altered.

 

[Hunter Rose]

The Fallschirmjäger are positively tiny compared to Waffen SS. They would look ridiculous posed together.

...

To state otherwise is blind fanboy fanaticism gone mad!!

I can see you passionately feel that the FL Waffen SS do not work with FL Fallschirmäger (and I assume the second line quoted above applies to the first.)

I happen to feel the FL Waffen SS and FL Fallschirmäger work fine together, and I'm fine with how I feel.

 

[Hunter Rose]

These pics were meant to go with my post above, but I ran out of editing time before I could find them.

I apologize in advance for the ridiculously inaccurate size discrepancy between the figures, but I always liked how these pics turned out. I'm still looking for the rest of the series.

 

[bridport]

Nice dioramas.

Photos are a matter of perspective.

To quote ‘Father Ted’, ‘Those ones are near, and those ones are far away…’.

I have the figures, know what size they are, and have no axe to grind.

Enjoy your superb First Legion figures.

 

[OzDigger]

I have no loyalty to any manufacturer.

I am merely an admirer of quality & accuracy in all figures.

First Legion quality and sculpting is first class. They are superb figures!

But the issue on scale within different ranges is blatantly obvious to anyone who collects them.

The Fallschirmjäger are positively tiny compared to Waffen SS. They would look ridiculous posed together.

But each range, stand alone, is superb.

To state otherwise is blind fanboy fanaticism gone mad!!

Excellent post and I totally agree.

This forum is meant to allow meaningfull exchanges of news, ideas and opinions.

The fanboys from all 'sides' often attempt to ruin any discussions that critisize 'their' toy soldiers by being personally abusive, or other means such as obfuscating the debate by introducing irrelevant statistics to support their opinion.

 

[wayne556517]

I'm a huge rivet counter and tank fanatic. My quest in this hobby has always been to get a scale accurate 1/30 tank collection. At one time or another, I've owned most every tank by every manufacturer.

I used to post threads here and at Hobby Bunker where I did the 1/30 scale math conversions of different tanks, measured the models, and then posted my results. Search for them if you want to review all those.

The short answer to your question above is:
- Most all of the First Legion tanks are an accurate true 1/30 scale (Opel Blitz, Sd.Kfz. 222, Sd.Kfz. 232, Sd.Kfz. 7 Prime Mover, Panzer IV F1 & F2, Panther, Tiger, Sherman, Jeep, T-34/76, T-34/85, T-70).
- The First Legion Stug IIIs and Panzer IIIs are slightly oversize (somewhere like 1/29 or 1/29.5 scale) as is the Panzer IV Ausf H and Stug IV.
- All the John Jenkins tanks so far are an accurate true 1/30 scale.
- The War Park Panzer III, Panzer IV, Tiger, Hummel are all slightly oversize (somewhere like 1/29 or 1/29.25 scale depending on tank)
- The Xuan Hua tanks have all been accurate true 1/30 scale so far

Remember, the difference between a 1/29 scale tank and a 1/30 scale tank is a couple millimeters. Nowadays, the scale discrepancy is so small, it's not something I even worry about anymore, unless I am in a mood to pick nits.

In my opinion, the scale differences today are so small it is a non-issue. I mix and match JJD, FL, War Park, Xuan Hua, and W. Britains tanks all the time with their figures. I also use TGM tanks/vehicles.

If a combo does not work, like the "large" first release War Park Grey German tank riders with a JJD Stug, I just don't worry about it in the least. I would just use FL grey German tank riders and the "small" later release War Park Grey German tank riders. There's been so many figures and vehicles released at this point, that it's simple to find size compatible combos when mixing and matching manufacturers. Just accept that not EVERY combo will work, and don't try to force a round peg into a square hole.

Mate John's first TIGER seemed a little small to me your thoughts?
Also back in the day I got banned from the FL threads Matt from FL hates my guts, I did send a apologetic email years ago no reply fair enough.
Having seen the error of my ways after buying WP, JJD and Britains new offerings I bought my first FL tank and it is amazing, delicate but amazing detail.
Still not sold on figures but getting my head around that one as well, so what I am trying to say is each to their own but scale harmony is nice to have when doing dios etc, look at Frank's pic pure perfection.

 

[OzDigger]

Mastercom, since you've asked a number of different threads, here's the FL Panther next to a JJD Panther.

The FL Panther is in the process of getting modified; the paint and markings have been altered.

View attachment 345114View attachment 345115View attachment 345116View attachment 345117

I have the John Jenkins Design Panther, very little different in size to the First Legion example next to it. However the JJD Panther has much better detail and the paint finish and colours are far better than FL. The difference is so obvious I couldn't see how anyone could disagree, but I suspect some will.

 

[Hunter Rose]

Mate John's first TIGER seemed a little small to me your thoughts?

Still not sold on figures but getting my head around that one as well, so what I am trying to say is each to their own but scale harmony is nice to have when doing dios etc, look at Frank's pic pure perfection.

JJD's Tiger seems small to you just like the FL "Hunter" figure seemed small to you...because I think your brain has just not accepted what "true 1/30 scale" actually looks like. I would also bet you used some of the "large" War Park figures (like the first release grey German Tank Riders) with the JJD Tiger. The "larger" War Park figures are too big/bulky, so the JJD Tiger will look small in relation to them.

The trick is to use "true 1/30 figures" with "true 1/30 tanks".

To show what I mean by "true 1/30" now we need some measurements. Here's how the JJD Tiger compares to an actual Tiger. The Tiger measurements are taken from Thomas Jentz's Tiger book, I then divide by 30 to get the 1/30 scale measurements, then I give what I measured the JJD Tiger to be.

All Measurements in millimeters (mm)
Length overall with Gun Forward: Tiger = 8450, 1/30 scale = 281.67, JJD Tiger = 282, JJD Scale = 1/29.96
Length Overall of Hull (inclusive of exhausts): Tiger = 6316, 1/30 scale = 210.5, JJD Tiger = 210, JJD Scale = 1/30.1
Width over tracks: Tiger = 3547, 1/30 scale = 118.2, JJD Tiger = 118.5, JJD Scale = 1/29.93
Hull Heigth: Tiger = 1800, 1/30 scale = 60, JJD Tiger = 60, JJD Scale = 1/30
Roadwheel Diameter: Tiger = 800, 1/30 scale = 26.67, JJD Tiger = 26.8, JJD Scale = 1/29.85
Height Overall Including of Cupola: Tiger = 3000, 1/30 scale = 100, JJD Tiger = 99.5, JJD scale = 1/30.15

I am not a measuring god, so there is probably some slight error in my measurements. I do feel confident these numbers are pretty darn close to accurate.

In my opinion, the JJD Tiger is extremely close to being a spot-on true 1/30 scale.


Now for some pictures, since we all like those. Here I am next to Ft. Moore's Tiger. I am a big guy at 6'5" tall and 225 lbs. The Britains SS figure when you include the base measures 65mm, so it pushes the figure height up to represent 6' 4.7" in total height. The relationship looks real close to exactly the same to me.

NOTE: The Ft. Moore Tiger has the left side of its turret cut away. This missing portion of the turret, along with it not having the smoke grenades mounted, gives the illusion of being smaller/narrower than a Tiger turret is. A better turret comparison is the JJD Tiger turret to the Bovington Tiger turret.



Now here's comparison pics with figures that measure 60mm tall (5'10" in real life). Coincidentally, this is exactly the same as the Tiger's hull height, so the tops of the figures heads should be at the top of the hull...and they are. They also look like people who are about 6" shorter than me, while keeping realistic human size/proportions.

These are all figures I think you would think are tiny and too small Wayne.






So there is the math showing the JJD Tiger is 1/30 scale, the math showing the relative real wold height of figures, and then the figures compared to a real human being of known height (identical relative height to the W. Britains figure as depicted).

If that doesn't convince people that the JJD Tanks and the "small" First Legion figures are true 1/30 scale, I'm not sure what else I possibly do that would convince them.

If people like larger figures, just use a larger Tiger from War Park or K&C. That will also maintain this same size relationship and works fine.


Cheers.

 

[OzDigger]

The above photos raise another 'scale issue' that I don't see mentioned very often on this forum.

Tank crew figures and related figures intended for display with tanks are often smaller than the standard size figures produced by Toy Soldier companies. For example King & Country 'tank riders' and dismounted tank crew are significantly smaller than say their SS figures.