RUSSIAN hunter. (2 Viewers)

[Mastercom10]

Excellent post and I totally agree.

This forum is meant to allow meaningfull exchanges of news, ideas and opinions.

The fanboys from all 'sides' often attempt to ruin any discussions that critisize 'their' toy soldiers by being personally abusive, or other means such as obfuscating the debate by introducing irrelevant statistics to support their opinion.

Yes OzDigger, I also had this impression during my remarks on certain FL issues (yet very real and without wanting to nitpick given the high price !).
But we shouldn't worry about it and continue to discuss impartially on this forum.

 

[Mastercom10]

I'm a huge rivet counter and tank fanatic. My quest in this hobby has always been to get a scale accurate 1/30 tank collection. At one time or another, I've owned most every tank by every manufacturer.

I used to post threads here and at Hobby Bunker where I did the 1/30 scale math conversions of different tanks, measured the models, and then posted my results. Search for them if you want to review all those.

The short answer to your question above is:
- Most all of the First Legion tanks are an accurate true 1/30 scale (Opel Blitz, Sd.Kfz. 222, Sd.Kfz. 232, Sd.Kfz. 7 Prime Mover, Panzer IV F1 & F2, Panther, Tiger, Sherman, Jeep, T-34/76, T-34/85, T-70).
- The First Legion Stug IIIs and Panzer IIIs are slightly oversize (somewhere like 1/29 or 1/29.5 scale) as is the Panzer IV Ausf H and Stug IV.
- All the John Jenkins tanks so far are an accurate true 1/30 scale.
- The War Park Panzer III, Panzer IV, Tiger, Hummel are all slightly oversize (somewhere like 1/29 or 1/29.25 scale depending on tank)
- The Xuan Hua tanks have all been accurate true 1/30 scale so far

Remember, the difference between a 1/29 scale tank and a 1/30 scale tank is a couple millimeters. Nowadays, the scale discrepancy is so small, it's not something I even worry about anymore, unless I am in a mood to pick nits.

In my opinion, the scale differences today are so small it is a non-issue. I mix and match JJD, FL, War Park, Xuan Hua, and W. Britains tanks all the time with their figures. I also use TGM tanks/vehicles.

If a combo does not work, like the "large" first release War Park Grey German tank riders with a JJD Stug, I just don't worry about it in the least. I would just use FL grey German tank riders and the "small" later release War Park Grey German tank riders. There's been so many figures and vehicles released at this point, that it's simple to find size compatible combos when mixing and matching manufacturers. Just accept that not EVERY combo will work, and don't try to force a round peg into a square hole.

Thanks again Hunter Rose, you are doing me a great service with all this information because I will probably never have all these tanks.
On the other hand, you must have an amazing armored vehicles collection from all brands !.
As a "tank fanatic" and "huge rivet counter", what do you think of certain notable issues of some FL tanks (you can read my previous posts for detail) ?.
Other brands also have some issues, more or less important.
You have probably, like most of us, an "inaccuracy degree of tolerance" to enjoy yourself with your great collection.

 

[Hunter Rose]

There is the Russian Hunter and the TF Hunter. I miss latter‘s technical contributions. They enrich the hobby so much.

I appreciate the kind words my friend.

I forgot how much I enjoy doing rivet counter type posts, so there will likely be more in 2025.

 

[Hunter Rose]

Hunter:

As always your knowledge is both impressive and applicable.

This discussion aside, I really need to take a trip to see that Tiger!

Best,
Jason

Seeing a Panther, Tiger, and King Tiger in real life were bucket list items for me. It was a great visit with fellow forum members Andanna and Amund. The Ft. Moore collection is excellent, and I highly encourage anyone interested in tanks to visit if they are near Columbus Georgia or want a day trip from Atlanta.

It was eye opening for me in many ways. The German "Big Cats" truly have an awe inspiring massive feel when you are around them.

However, I was shocked at how small a Panzer IV, Panzer III, and Stug III really are. They are small inside too, I kept thinking "There is no way I could ever fit in these tanks."

It reinforced to me that the original First Legion Panzer IV F1 and F2 is accurate 1/30 scale (the FL Panzer IV was another model lots of people felt was "too small" for 1/30). Here's some more comparison pics of me next to these smaller tanks. Again, I'm a big guy at 6'5" tall and 225lbs, and the Panzer IV is missing its track so is a couple inches shorter than it should be, but I still was almost eye level with the top of the turret. I did not get the angles exactly right in the pics, but I think they are close enough you can see the size relationships of the tanks and the figures looks spot on for realistic size and proportions, with the First Legion figures representing a 5'10" tall in 1/30 scale figures, so about 6 inches shorter than me.

 

[OzDigger]

Yes OzDigger, I also had this impression during my remarks on certain FL issues (yet very real and without wanting to nitpick given the high price !).
But we shouldn't worry about it and continue to discuss impartially on this forum.

At least these current debates aren't as volatile as the 'good old days', with increasing age we're either getting wiser, or more apathetic about 'scale issues'

 

[wayne556517]

1 figure and all this trouble.

 

[Lo1863]

1 figure and all this trouble.

I know! I honestly had some good laughs over the past couple days reading this thread...

 

[Mastercom10]

1 figure and all this trouble.

No trouble at all, only constructive comments ....

 

[Mastercom10]

I agree with You, Tryfon and the many other collectors that have concerns about the small size of WW2 First Legion Figures.

I look forward to seeing your photos of 1:35 scale Plastic Kit Figures compared to First Legion WW2 Figures.

However that raises another concern; "Are First Legion Tanks and Armoured Cars etc small in comparison to 1:30 Vehicles made by other Brands?"

It would be interesting to also see photos comparing First Legion WW2 Tanks to 1:35 plastic kit Tanks.

Here is a photo for comparison with 1:35 scale plastic kit figures.
FL figures are significantly larger, so a "true" 1:30 scale is very likely as discussed in previous posts.
Nevertheless, this "WWII size" (except US paras and waffen SS) is the smallest compared to all other brands and even compared to some FL ranges as Napoleonic (except some early releases such french cuirassiers, french carabiniers, bavarian wich are in fact also "true" 1:30), anglo-zulu war, etc ... .
And all this mean that it is not always obvious to mix the figures together.
I know that there are taller and smaller men but in a group I think it is the average size that predominates, Tony Parker or Teddy Riner physicals are in minority.
So, for a mix, it is up to everyone to place their figures as best as possible between them.

 

[Gebhard]

Seeing a Panther, Tiger, and King Tiger in real life were bucket list items for me. It was a great visit with fellow forum members Andanna and Amund. The Ft. Moore collection is excellent, and I highly encourage anyone interested in tanks to visit if they are near Columbus Georgia or want a day trip from Atlanta.

It was eye opening for me in many ways. The German "Big Cats" truly have an awe inspiring massive feel when you are around them.

However, I was shocked at how small a Panzer IV, Panzer III, and Stug III really are. They are small inside too, I kept thinking "There is no way I could ever fit in these tanks."

It reinforced to me that the original First Legion Panzer IV F1 and F2 is accurate 1/30 scale (the FL Panzer IV was another model lots of people felt was "too small" for 1/30). Here's some more comparison pics of me next to these smaller tanks. Again, I'm a big guy at 6'5" tall and 225lbs, and the Panzer IV is missing its track so is a couple inches shorter than it should be, but I still was almost eye level with the top of the turret. I did not get the angles exactly right in the pics, but I think they are close enough you can see the size relationships of the tanks and the figures looks spot on for realistic size and proportions, with the First Legion figures representing a 5'10" tall in 1/30 scale figures, so about 6 inches shorter than me.



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GOD bless you and thanks for your factual, analytical and cerebral post, you have the patience of Job.

I really just can't anymore when I hear 1/35 comparisons, too small or not accurate enough for 1/30 displays I just can't. Especially when you go through so much effort to try and explain only to have it go in one ear and out the other which sadly has been the case for some for almost 20 years now.

I totally understand that some guys are used to large all one sized figures and I do get it all the older figures were made like that Elastolin , Hausser , Britians and all the old glossy's ect ect and there is nothing wrong with that but you really can't ask for more and more realism in the Hobby then want all your figures to be exactly the same height that's just not possible in the real world or for realism in the Hobby. We all should be able to at least agree on that but sadly that's also a no go.

First Legions scale has never been one of my complaints I'm more concerned with some of the dork face sculpts I have. Of course, when you have different sculptors over the years doing different lines, **** happens as they say I usually try to avoid those figures.

I had the pleasure of meeting up with Andreas and a few other forum members some years back great guys no doubt.

 

[Gebhard]

Mate John's first TIGER seemed a little small to me your thoughts?
Also back in the day I got banned from the FL threads Matt from FL hates my guts, I did send a apologetic email years ago no reply fair enough.
Having seen the error of my ways after buying WP, JJD and Britains new offerings I bought my first FL tank and it is amazing, delicate but amazing detail.
Still not sold on figures but getting my head around that one as well, so what I am trying to say is each to their own but scale harmony is nice to have when doing dios etc, look at Frank's pic pure perfection.

Mate I think hate is a bit much .

Your post above says exactly what kind of man you are after years and years of post that were let's just say everything but friendly towards FL you actually bought something and now have changed your opinion towards their ATV's and it takes a man to admit that so nothing but respect from me.

Who knows maybe in another decade you'll also be a fan of the figures as well, hopefully we will both live long enough to see it. The figure prices have gotten IMO almost to the point where I'm no longer a player and it has to be a great one for me to buy when years ago, I would buy every figure in the line.

 

[OzDigger]

Here is a photo for comparison with 1:35 scale plastic kit figures.
FL figures are significantly larger, so a "true" 1:30 scale is very likely as discussed in previous posts.
Nevertheless, this "WWII size" (except US paras and waffen SS) is the smallest compared to all other brands and even compared to some FL ranges as Napoleonic (except some early releases such french cuirassiers, french carabiniers, bavarian wich are in fact also "true" 1:30), anglo-zulu war, etc ... .
And all this mean that it is not always obvious to mix the figures together.
I know that there are taller and smaller men but in a group I think it is the average size that predominates, Tony Parker or Teddy Riner physicals are in minority.
So, for a mix, it is up to everyone to place their figures as best as possible between them.

1:35 scale plastic kit figures and AFVs are rather small, even 1:32 are likely to be smaller than FL figures.

However that doesn't change the fact they are small figures compared to several 1:30 scale brands. Of course this discussion goes back to when the FL Normandy Germans were first released. Many collectors were concerned about their small size, which prompted assertions they were true 1:30 scale being based on statistics that the average height of Soldiers in WW2 was 5' 10".

At the time I posted that German Soldiers tended to be taller than most soldiers together with the fact that the new FL Germans were Shorter than their Napoleonic range. Based on stats that earlier soldiers were shorter than current soldiers, then obviously the German WW2 troops should have been Taller not Shorter than Napoleonic troops. I was also able to compare the new FL WW2 Normandy Germans to their Napoleonic range in person when they were first released as my local Dealer was considering selling First Legion. I did buy several FL sets when they were subsequently discounted in price but in recent years I've switched to buying mainly John Jenkins Designs sets, for obvious reasons.

 

[FirstLegion]

Mate John's first TIGER seemed a little small to me your thoughts?
Also back in the day I got banned from the FL threads Matt from FL hates my guts, I did send a apologetic email years ago no reply fair enough.
Having seen the error of my ways after buying WP, JJD and Britains new offerings I bought my first FL tank and it is amazing, delicate but amazing detail.
Still not sold on figures but getting my head around that one as well, so what I am trying to say is each to their own but scale harmony is nice to have when doing dios etc, look at Frank's pic pure perfection.

Whoaaaaa big fella. I do not today nor have i ever "hated your guts." That's crazy, you're just a dude on a forum, hating requires energy. Actually, on the contrary, I've always just viewed you as a kinda funny ball buster. You so consistently hated on everything we did that i kinda got to appreciate your dedication to it.

In any case, glad that you at least appreciate what we've been doing these last couple decades. Never too late to see the light. ;-)

M

 

[FirstLegion]

20 years later...still discussing scale. Sigh. As if we aren't a totally known quantity by now..

 

[OzDigger]

20 years later...still discussing scale. Sigh. As if we aren't a totally known quantity by now..

Scale remains a relevant topic, especially to new collectors that are confused by size variations.