Tariffs - The Elephant in the Room (2 Viewers)

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Finlome said:
Well no body in Europe buys their crap here. We source from Italy or France for high quality items for the home for example. Ditto cars etc
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Most Italian cars are not made in Italy - they are made in Eastern European Countries such as Poland
 
Jumper said:
This is where the whole thing is wrong. Whilst what you are saying is true and that the USA is really heavily indebted. It’s your allies and MAINLY CHINA which is servicing US debt. China is servicing 800 Billion of US Debt. But the people throughout the years who made all this debt are living in Mansions and have millions of millions in their bank accounts because when they were elected they worked for the lobby groups and the big corporations and not for the people.

God knows what went on through these last 5pm years ….but what is awkward is many common workers in the US pay more then any of these wealthy people !
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Please no politics as the OP clearly requested :) Thank you
 
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Warrior said:
Doesn't matter, the tariff is based on where the item is produced, not where it's shipped from.
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Except it’s direct exports only, given that’s precisely how myself & countless others don’t pay as it’s via a Freeport.
 
Jumper said:
Most Italian cars are not made in Italy - they are made in Eastern European Countries such as Poland
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That’s not true. The Po valley is littered with thriving plants, particularly around Modena and Torino centre engineering excellence as ever, Italy has loads plants. Was on 3 of them last year. The Cassino plant for Alfa & Fiats Napoli plants are huge complexes.

They have more plants in Brazil as they are market leaders. The production numbers are 10 times number for Italy alone then Brazil.

Awaiting you telling me Renault isn’t French next 🤣
 
wayne556517 said:
Who??
Get Warpark from Singapore and K&C from HK, but First Legion, Britain's ??
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That's exactly what's going to happen. 3rd party shipping from another country. I live in the US and rarely I buy Cuban cigars (dispite the embargo) via Switzerland. However, most of my cigars are from Central America via local US dealers.

This could happen with toy soldiers. However, the over costs will need to be analyzed. Others countries have import duties, VAT, shipping costs that need to be calculated in a cost benefit analysis.

The toy soldier industry has been permanently altered. There may eventually be some "curve outs" agreement in the tariffs. However, toy soldiers are not likely to be one of them due to scale compared with other goods.

Perhaps, the manufactures and US dealers can share the tariff burden with negotiated rebates from the manufacturer to the dealers. Also, if the manufactures would allow dealers to mark up retail pricing by X dollars. However, collectors will ultimately make their own decisions subsequently.

Just some random thoughts.

Carlos
 
Northwest Hussar said:
After reading all the vitriol in these posts regarding tariffs, Elon Musk, and the current administration... At least we know who the democrats are that frequent this forum! :D

I thought this forum was supposed to be about the hobby and joy of collecting toy soldiers. Not politics. This thread was never going to do anything BUT devolve into a political argument and Julie should probably just lock down the whole thread.
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Oh dear, never mind.
 
FirstLegion said:
So guys, as you know effective March 4th, there will be 20% tariffs on all products coming out of China, where basically all toy soldiers are made. While I do NOT want this discussion to devolve into politics at all, as that's not the point, I'm very curious to hear what effect this may have on the large US collector base out there. Previously, there was that $800 USD exception with no tax, that's gone now. We are among just a few MFR's that primarily warehouse and ship from the USA. But with 20% Tariffs, it's unlikely we will continue to do so, particularly as more than half our customer base isn't even in the USA.

So what I'm wondering is are you all concerned about buying power and increased costs? Do you feel that MFR's like us or dealers should just try to absorb the costs, which realistically probably isn't 100% possible?

Again, please, not politics. That's irrelevant. We are where we are, doesn't matter how or why we got here. And while it could all just go away with a new trade deal, which i do find a realistic possibility, let's pretend it won't.

Share your thoughts on how this may impact your collecting habits and if it's something you're concerned about.



PS - NO POLITICS.
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Start to think about manufacturing in the US.....
 
Gebhard said:
Hope this isn't considered political but unfortunately, the USA is broke we are so far in debt and the spending is so far out of control something has to change.

Like most European countries as well we actually used to make just about everything in house.

I don't think it takes a genius to understand why most goods are now being made elsewhere and why companies from around the world set up shop there.

That's wonderful for those cashing in including us consumers by buying at cheaper cost.

To be fair we have to expect at some point this has to change.

It's unfair for these countries to have it both ways, they want to sell to the world with free trade but hit the rest of the world's goods with taxes and tariffs that price our home-made products as rare luxury imports from the west insuring, they are way too expensive for their citizens to afford and enjoy.

And so, it goes Hopefully I'll still be able to afford the luxuries like imported Bier, Chocolate and maybe that list will now have to grow to include expensive imported goods and toy soldiers made in China. (that sounds funny for a change)

Hey maybe someone will open up shop here or in the west if prices go up too much.

Like they say necessity breeds invention, who knows maybe companies and factories will also no longer feel it a necessity to only sell to the west from abroad and find it a necessity to produce there as well.

Time will tell.

The short answer is we will all have to deal with it best we can, and I plan on doing just that.
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Well said. There are a lot of reasons more than greed that caused manufacturing to leave America. One is labor unions. Here is the example of why Maryland no longer manufacturers GM Mini Vans and this is fully verifiable and true. The employee whose job it was to test the rear tailgate operation on the assembly line (literally pushing a button on the remote) was being paid the equivalent of $1550/hr. I don't care what your profit margin is, for that skill level of job, it is not profitable. I know that is an extreme example and I also believe in parts of a union, but the demand for wage levels...........NO. Unfortunately, a lot of our labor skilled/unskilled job wages could not keep up with the cost of living and that was due to a lot of issues, not Corporate greed (granted I am sure it was a small %, but not a large one)

The point is well made - you can't have it both ways. You can't expect to pay lower skilled manufacturing jobs on a "Rockefeller" level and expect cheaper goods. Companies were force to look elsewhere to remain competitive. The old adage is this - if a product is unprofitable, it is no longer viable to make. Quite frankly, I have been waiting (not hoping, but waiting) for this proverbial ball to drop for some time. Not happy it is here, but as a Country, policies eventually come home to roost. Maybe we back off and kick the can down the road again, I don't know, I do know one thing, short term thinking gains usually result in a lot of long term pain. And I am not saying tariffs are the answer either. I just think it is a big mess that not sure how to get out of.

TD
 
Getting back to TS collecting in the UK we already pay 20% import duty. That was a big increase on top of the recent slain elephant from FL I bought. We just suck it up.

I tend to order from Asia especially K&C while Thomas Gunn and John Jenkins are directly imported into the UK.

If prices of FL, Team Minuatures, War Park or Britain's increase, as these are the brands I tend to order from America, then I will just buy less of them. Or if I can buy directly from China for WP and TM.

I may also order more figures from manufacturers in Spain and Argentina.

Maybe high end Russian figures will be a lot cheaper for our Yank friends in a few weeks!
 
Back to the original question/point of this thread;

"Do you feel that MFR's like us or dealers should just try to absorb the costs, which realistically probably isn't 100% possible?"

I finished up my taxes this week/met with my accountant and he and I discussed this very topic, specifically how the tariff cost would be dealt with.

It's going to take a combination of things and probably a shared cost; dealers eat some of it, the manufacturers eat some of it, trying as hard as possible to avoid the collectors eating a share of it. All I hear about the tariffs is they are really a tax on consumers, ie, retail prices will simply go up to offset the tariffs.

And then people will buy less/spend more if they do, not a good combination.

Dealers and manufacturers are going to have to get creative to weather this storm and work together to get through it.

The Chinese tariffs are here to stay, so unless something magical happens, the cost of those tariffs will have to be addressed and dealt with.

I have an idea of how manufacturers and dealers can work this out, ideas I've floated to a few manufacturers so far, we'll see how it plays out.

The goal should be to inflict as little pain as possible on the customers as without them, there is no business and it's a wrap.

I'm too young to retire, too old to go do something else, so it's toy soldier salesman or bust for me.
 
Well, the good news is toy soldiers are a 100% discretionary item. We don’t eat, drive or take them as medicine. Nobody must have them. Therefore if tariffs drive prices to unaffordable levels, would be buyers can freely choose to abstain. If then there is a resulting significant slow down in demand, the makers / re-sellers will adjust and seek a new equilibrium price / value relationship that earns a return and is acceptable to the customer. If that is impossible then the toy soldier businesses can make other changes like changing production methods, locations, systems, customer segments, etc.

Given the perilous/existential threat nature of the US federal deficit/debt and trade imbalance, some level of financial pain must be expected if we must (and we must) restructure our economic system to be long term sustainable. Frankly about the last worry on my mind is how we can do so without a rise in the prices of toy soldiers.
 
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