The Great Patriotic War. 1941-1945 (6 Viewers)

[tank]

Firstly.

My apologies I didn’t know that you are NOT Christians.

And because of this I would like to explain you that the Easter is big celebration for us Christian and that was the reason I wanted to avoid the sad stories during this time.

Well, because you are insist I reply to your posts.



OzDigger

'Yes it's his typical response, he keeps posting his lies then doesn't respond honestly when challenged.

The stories he posts are so obviously missleading and fake they are sometimes accidentally humorous. He has no clue, I laughed so much when he kept confusing Emus with Ostriches”.


How cute!

Are you,OzDigger, shy about Australia’s history?

or let me guess...

You recently moved to Australia and don’t know its history yet. Am I right?


Do not worry. I’m happy to help you.

For your information comrad OzDigger : Ostrich Emu - the Russian name for flightless bird Emu.

Here are the links where you, my friend, can read about this famous war.


great emu war

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/01/great-emu-war-1932/

https://www.newbernsj.com/news/20191019/really-true-story-of-great-emu-war

https://www.smithjournal.com.au/blogs/history/3548-remembering-the-great-emu-war-of-1932

https://modernfarmer.com/2014/04/fought-emus-emus-won/




Now about your: “he keeps posting his lies”


Have you disprove any of my posts?

I haven’t seen it yet so shut up.

If you don’t have respect for yourself please, at least have some respect for veterans of WW2.


I can’t even imagine what a piece of **** you must to be to call the story like this a lie.


During a tank attack on German positions, the enemy anti-tank gun shell hit directly on the T-34’s forehead. The entire crew was killed but Mikhail Smirnov, who for some time lost his consciousness. After recovering, Smirnov accelerated the tank and burst into the German positions, His crushed three anti-tank guns and killed 30 enemy soldiers and officers from the T-34 machine gun.

Photo of Mikhail Smirnov, the driver of the T-34 tank after the end of the battle.

The photo was taken immediately after the battle ended in January 17, 1944, Leningrad Region.

Mikhail Sergeevich Smirnov was killed in action six months later in Latvia on July 29, 1944...

award sheet of Mikhail Smirnov

Desertkiwi
“I was hoping you could possibly draw yourself away from providing us with all those lovely statistic's for a moment and maybe provide us with some insight into what was behind this particular incident involving some of your countryman during WW2 and the Great Patriotic War please?"


With my pleasure. I already spent a lot of time to reply questions on the Katyn theme so please enjoy.

Here is the link for you.

https://forum.treefrogtreasures.com...an-armored-vehicles-in-1943-Kursk-Bulge/page2


By the way: Do you know that :within two years, out of 130,000 Russian prisoners of war in Poland, 60,000 died.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Военнопленные_советско-польской_войны


To the ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of the Republic of Poland T. Filipovich on the situation and death of prisoners of war in Polish camps "(September 9, 1921).

'' The responsibility of the Polish Government remains entirely with the indescribable horrors that are still happening with impunity in places like the Strzalkovo camp. It is enough to point out that within two years, out of 130,000 Russian prisoners of war in Poland, 60,000 died. ''

Russian historian Mikhail Meltiukhov estimates the number of dead prisoners at 60 thousand people [7].
IV V. Mikhutin cites the same 60 thousand [17].



This is why the Russian are saying that the West the rewriting the History.

Please try to GOODLE: Russian prisoners of war in Poland,
and the GOOGLE will give you everything about Polish POW in Russia and nothing about Russian POW in Poland.

Tank.

 

[Mirof]

Great pity that your ancestors ( the grandfather you spoke about perhaps ) had to leave URSS because of the Persecution of Christians
Once again I pity you . Seems to me you suffered so much in your beliefs that you lost your sense of balance or worst your mind . I'm sure you can find all psychologal help in New Zealand . We will pray for your soul ...
We hope you back when cured .
Best wishes .

Samsom destroyed 1000 Philistines, alone, with a donkey jaw during another Patriotic War

It's documented, it must be true {sm4}

 

[OzDigger]

If nothing else he's at least consistant, if not entertaining in a strange kind of way.

His threads certainly attract some attention if the view list is anything to go by, although not too many 'likes' it seems.

Hopefully his readers have the good sense to do their own research before coming to any conclusions, other than having a good laugh.^&grin

What is there to like about his posts. Everyone knows they are pathetic lies and exaggerations from a disturbed mind. Early on we tried to convince him to post actual facts rather than immature over the top Ruskie propaganda, but he just responded with further bs 'proof' and denials. Most members then gave up and put him on their Ignore list.

 

[OzDigger]

Hey Wank,

More Lies! You're no Christian you're a Communist and clearly mentally challenged, best you call those Emus, Pigeon, like your English.

This is a Toy Soldier Forum, no one wants your Communist Rubbish here, take it somewhere else.

Firstly.

My apologies I didn’t know that you are NOT Christians.

And because of this I would like to explain you that the Easter is big celebration for us Christian and that was the reason I wanted to avoid the sad stories during this time.

Well, because you are insist I reply to your posts.



OzDigger

'Yes it's his typical response, he keeps posting his lies then doesn't respond honestly when challenged.

The stories he posts are so obviously missleading and fake they are sometimes accidentally humorous. He has no clue, I laughed so much when he kept confusing Emus with Ostriches”.


How cute!

Are you,OzDigger, shy about Australia’s history?

or let me guess...

You recently moved to Australia and don’t know its history yet. Am I right?


Do not worry. I’m happy to help you.

For your information comrad OzDigger : Ostrich Emu - the Russian name for flightless bird Emu.

Here are the links where you, my friend, can read about this famous war.


great emu war

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/01/great-emu-war-1932/

https://www.newbernsj.com/news/20191019/really-true-story-of-great-emu-war

https://www.smithjournal.com.au/blogs/history/3548-remembering-the-great-emu-war-of-1932

https://modernfarmer.com/2014/04/fought-emus-emus-won/




Now about your: “he keeps posting his lies”


Have you disprove any of my posts?

I haven’t seen it yet so shut up.

If you don’t have respect for yourself please, at least have some respect for veterans of WW2.


I can’t even imagine what a piece of **** you must to be to call the story like this a lie.


During a tank attack on German positions, the enemy anti-tank gun shell hit directly on the T-34’s forehead. The entire crew was killed but Mikhail Smirnov, who for some time lost his consciousness. After recovering, Smirnov accelerated the tank and burst into the German positions, His crushed three anti-tank guns and killed 30 enemy soldiers and officers from the T-34 machine gun.

Photo of Mikhail Smirnov, the driver of the T-34 tank after the end of the battle.

The photo was taken immediately after the battle ended in January 17, 1944, Leningrad Region.

Mikhail Sergeevich Smirnov was killed in action six months later in Latvia on July 29, 1944...

award sheet of Mikhail Smirnov

Desertkiwi
“I was hoping you could possibly draw yourself away from providing us with all those lovely statistic's for a moment and maybe provide us with some insight into what was behind this particular incident involving some of your countryman during WW2 and the Great Patriotic War please?"


With my pleasure. I already spent a lot of time to reply questions on the Katyn theme so please enjoy.

Here is the link for you.

https://forum.treefrogtreasures.com...an-armored-vehicles-in-1943-Kursk-Bulge/page2


By the way: Do you know that :within two years, out of 130,000 Russian prisoners of war in Poland, 60,000 died.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Военнопленные_советско-польской_войны


To the ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of the Republic of Poland T. Filipovich on the situation and death of prisoners of war in Polish camps "(September 9, 1921).

'' The responsibility of the Polish Government remains entirely with the indescribable horrors that are still happening with impunity in places like the Strzalkovo camp. It is enough to point out that within two years, out of 130,000 Russian prisoners of war in Poland, 60,000 died. ''

Russian historian Mikhail Meltiukhov estimates the number of dead prisoners at 60 thousand people [7].
IV V. Mikhutin cites the same 60 thousand [17].



This is why the Russian are saying that the West the rewriting the History.

Please try to GOODLE: Russian prisoners of war in Poland,
and the GOOGLE will give you everything about Polish POW in Russia and nothing about Russian POW in Poland.

Tank.

 

[Mirof]

Can not resist
Is he him ?
Tank Spank Wank Bank

 

[Desertkiwi]

Desertkiwi
“I was hoping you could possibly draw yourself away from providing us with all those lovely statistic's for a moment and maybe provide us with some insight into what was behind this particular incident involving some of your countryman during WW2 and the Great Patriotic War please?"


With my pleasure. I already spent a lot of time to reply questions on the Katyn theme so please enjoy.

Here is the link for you.
​

https://forum.treefrogtreasures.com/...sk-Bulge/page2

Yes Tank I am aware of your in-depth commentary regarding this topic, however continuously quoting the Communist Party line is hardly answering my question. Given what your own party has now admitted too and acknowledged its participation in the deaths of thousands of Polish prisoners of war during and after their invasion of Poland your stance on the matter is at odds with your own motherland.

The bias of your posts, endless praise and relentless quotation of meaningless statistics of Russia's alleged achievements during the 'sole' defeat of Nazi Germany is beyond absurd and at times completely fascial.




​

 

[OzDigger]

Tank denies this occurred!

How can he call himself a Christian, he's a Communist.

Russian parliament condemns Stalin for Katyn massacre

• 26 November 2010

Image captionSome 22,000 Poles were shot dead at Katyn and other sitesRussia's lower house of parliament has condemned Joseph Stalin by name for the mass execution of Poles at Katyn during World War II.
The Duma declared that the Soviet dictator and other Soviet officials had ordered the "Katyn crime" in 1940.
The statement, which comes weeks before a Russian presidential visit to Poland, was welcomed in Warsaw.
In a stormy debate, Communist MPs opposed the declaration, some seeking to deny Soviet guilt.
Soviet propaganda sought for decades to portray the massacre as the work of the Nazis, who overran Katyn after invading the USSR in 1941.
The truth was finally acknowledged in 1990, in the dying days of Soviet power, but the issue has continued to cloud relations between Russia and Poland.
The Duma said it hoped for "the beginning of a new stage in relations" with Poland "based on democratic values". Russian President Dmitry Medvedev is set to visit the country early next month.
Grzegorz Schetyna, Speaker of Poland's Sejm, the lower house of the Polish parliament, described the Duma declaration as a "good step and an important sign".
"President Medvedev's visit will thus take place in a better atmosphere," he was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.
'This villainy'

The Katyn crime was carried out on direct orders of Stalin and other Soviet officialsText of Duma declaration​

"Published documents, kept in classified archives for many years, not only revealed the scale of this horrific tragedy, but also showed that the Katyn crime was carried out on direct orders of Stalin and other Soviet officials," the Duma declaration says.
"Official Soviet propaganda attributed responsibility for this villainy, which has received the collective name of the Katyn tragedy, to Nazi criminals.
"This theory remained the subject of hidden but nevertheless fierce discussions in Soviet society and unfailingly provoked the wrath, grievance and mistrust of the Polish people."
Russian leaders have publicly expressed regret for the massacre and this year saw the official online publication, by order of Mr Medvedev, of key documents proving the guilt of Stalin and his secret police chief Lavrenty Beria.
Nobody has ever been convicted over the massacre, with Russian prosecutors arguing that those responsible are now dead.
A Russian judicial investigation in 2005 only confirmed the execution of 1,803 victims, while the actual number of Polish prisoners killed at Katyn and other Soviet sites is generally held to be about 22,000, including about 8,000 military officers.
The Duma declaration called for the massacre to be investigated further in order to confirm the list of victims.
The Duma also argued that Katyn was a tragedy for Russia too as thousands of Soviet citizens were executed and buried in ditches there in the years 1936-38, the period of Soviet history known as the Terror.
Katyn 'myth'

Russia's Communist Party, which described Katyn last month as "one of the greatest myths of the 20th Century", voted against the declaration.

Image captionJoseph Stalin remains a hero for some Russian CommunistsOne of its MPs, Viktor Ilyukhin, told parliament the declaration was "degrading".
"It is alarming that for several decades, Russians have been forced to kneel and made to apologise for everything, even for things they did not commit, like apologising for the Katyn tragedy, which was not our fault," the Communist MP said.
But Konstantin Kosachev, head of the Duma's foreign affairs committee, said MPs had a duty to "remove this lie from our path".
"We want to close this issue, paying tribute to the victims of Katyn and condemning those who committed the evil deed," he said.

 

[tank]

Some of you would wonder why these Gentlemen are posting so angry posts.
Well...

The basic defense mechanism is well known under the name “5 stages of reaction to changes” by E. Kübler-Ross. An outstanding psychologist once described in her cult book “On Death and Dying” (1969) the emotional reactions of seriously ill and dying people.


E. Kübler-Ross identified the 5 key stages of emotional response:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Depression
4. Bargaining
5. Acceptance


Forum participants go through almost the same stages of emotional reaction. When they faced the need to adapt themselves to a new information which contradicted the believes.



2. Anger:
At this stage, it is important to understand that this is not the new information what causes anger in people, but a loss of confidence in the existing knowledge that they had before: “This is unfair! Not! I can not accept it! “


The forum participants at this stage can:


# complain endlessly instead of citing facts as evidence;

# fall into accusations, criticism and hysteria;

# get annoyed more than usual, cling to little things...

http://www.clubqualitativelife.com/pdf/en/paraeliskublerrossondeathanddying.pdf






Kids at the war.


Petya Gurko .

14-year-old Petya Gurko joined the detachment after the tragic death of his mother — the Nazis tortured her. On May 12, 1942 he was enrolled in the partisan detachment “За власть советов” of the 4th partisan regiment of the 2nd partisan brigade.

For the valor and courage shown in two military operations against Nazi punitive expeditions, the young partisan Petr Gurko was awarded the medal “For Courage” on June 30, 1942.

From the award sheet.

During his stay in the partisan detachment from January 1942, Gurko P.U. took part in 2 combat operations.

On June 1, 1942, he, together with 6 partisans, met with the Germans near the village of Volki, Ashevsky District, Kalinin Region. put them in a stampede.

June 13 1942 Comrade Gurko was an active participant of the battle with the German punitive expedition in the village Aprostvo of the Ashevsky District of the Leningrad Region.

Under heavy machine gun, mortar and artillery fire from the enemy Petya Gurkohe carried out 2 heavy-wounded partisans Korotkov and Stepanov with their weapons from the battlefield and then delivered them to the 2nd regiment of the dressing station of the 4th Regiment partisan brigade (distance 2 kilometers).

Unfortunately, what happened to the boy later is not known.





NOVIKOV BORIS MIKHAILOVICH (1930-1942)

A native of Leningrad, evacuated to Rybinsk. During the war, he fled to the front.
He was a liaison of the 3rd battalion of the 380th rifle regiment.

Boris tried to run to the front a several times but he was constantly returned by adults. Only on the fourth attempt he to managr to get on the battlefield. To trying to stay at the front Boris Novikov composes a legend for the battalion commander G.V. Melnikov of the 380th rifle regiment that he arrived at the front to fight and avenge the enemy for his mother who died of starvation. But he failed to reasure the battalion commander so Melnikov gave Boris some food and put him back on the train... After a little ride the boy moved to another train and come back to the battalion.
This time the battalion commander decided to let Boris to stay as the son of a regiment.

In May 1942, for bravery and courage in the battles Boris was awarded the medal “For Courage” for bandaged 26 soldiers during the combat, withdrew 18 wounded from the battlefield, and for taking away from the battlefield 12 rifles, 3 light machine guns, 2 machine guns.

He was killed in action in 1942 by the town Staraya Russa.
In 1972, in connection with the 50th anniversary of the All-Union Pioneer Organization, Lesnaya Street in the Zacheryushny District was renamed to Boris Novikov Street.









The Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf. N. Sd.Kfz. 141

 

[Mirof]

As usual Tank use a well known technique ( Fr. Bacon )

" ..... slander there will always be something left .... "

 

[Desertkiwi]

Actually until you suddenly appeared on TF and decided to bombard the forum with your communist rhetoric there wasn’t any obvious anti-Russian sentiment on the forum that I can recall.

In-fact their was a considerable amount of sympathy expressed for the Russian people and what they suffered during WW2 on TF. You only have to see the number of figures & vehicles produced for that campaign by a range of manufacturers.

You on the other hand have for whatever reason decided to take things to a whole different level and re-write history while at the same time denigrate the efforts of the Allies and everyone else while at the same time praising and denying anything remotely negative about Stalin and his military forces during WW2.

As for your poor attempt at psychology, I could easily apply the same method to yourself.

To be honest IMO you’ve dropped the ball and squandered a golden opportunity to add further insight to the Russian experience during WW2 and instead gone on a communist propaganda exercise. Bizarre!

 

[waynepoo]

I employ a simple response to Tanks one eyed and totally bias posts..ignore them and him.

 

[OzDigger]

Actually until you suddenly appeared on TF and decided to bombard the forum with your communist rhetoric there wasn’t any obvious anti-Russian sentiment on the forum that I can recall.

In-fact their was a considerable amount of sympathy expressed for the Russian people and what they suffered during WW2 on TF. You only have to see the number of figures & vehicles produced for that campaign by a range of manufacturers.

You on the other hand have for whatever reason decided to take things to a whole different level and re-write history while at the same time denigrate the efforts of the Allies and everyone else while at the same time praising and denying anything remotely negative about Stalin and his military forces during WW2.

As for your poor attempt at psychology, I could easily apply the same method to yourself.

To be honest IMO you’ve dropped the ball and squandered a golden opportunity to add further insight to the Russian experience during WW2 and instead gone on a communist propaganda exercise. Bizarre!

His communist rhetoric has been increasing, perhaps in response to the Putin Influence.

The following is from a December 2017 article by Strobe Talbott, an American foreign policy analyst.

"Throughout Russian history, progress has often awakened the forces of regression. On the last day of the twentieth century, Yeltsin, suffering from heart disease and politically exhausted, resigned without warning from the presidency. In the course of his leadership, he had six prime ministers, one who was appointed twice and four of whom he fired. Putin, as the last prime minister before Yeltsin’s resignation, got the ultimate promotion.

A major factor in his ascent was his scorched-earth strategy in subduing Chechen secessionists. Bringing the Caucasus homeland back under Moscow’s rule boosted Putin’s reputation for being a tough, vigorous leader. Over the last seventeen years, especially since the end of his second term as president in 2008, he has thrown Russia’s evolution into reverse, dismantling the incipient democracy that both Gorbachev and Yeltsin had made it their life’s mission to establish.

What if the Politburo had not decided thirty-two years ago to bypass the old guard and take a chance on the youthful, innovative Gorbachev? The USSR, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the Warsaw Pact, the Iron Curtain, the Berlin Wall, and the cold war might have lasted well into the twenty-first century. In that alternative scenario, Lieutenant-Colonel Putin, an undercover agent in the sleepy backwater of East Germany during five of Gorbachev’s years in power, might have spent the rest of his professional life serving the Soviet state in obscurity.

Instead, after burning the files in the KGB rezidentura in Dresden, Putin returned to his native Leningrad (soon to be St. Petersburg) and joined the orbit of the mayor, Anatoly Sobchak, formerly a leading liberal legislator in the new, genuinely democratic parliament that Gorbachev had created, a fateful move that would soon position Putin to be Yeltsin’s handpicked successor.

Shortly before Yeltsin died in 2007, he privately acknowledged what a disastrous mistake that choice was. In that same year, Putin ratcheted up his scolding of the West, bullying Russia’s neighbors, concentrating power in his hands, cowing the parliament, muzzling independent media, rigging Russian elections, and meddling in the politics of other countries.

One thing has not changed: Russia today limps along with a dysfunctional economy inherited from the Soviet and Yeltsin eras. It still lacks robust manufacturing and service sectors for domestic and foreign markets, while depending on natural resources mined or pumped out of the ground, and suffering more than ever from flagrant, institutionalized corruption—itself a form of dictatorship.

The Russian people and the world have lived with Putinism for more than a decade. Now is an appropriate time to pose a version of Lenin’s question: Whose vision of Russia’s future will prevail? Was the Gorbachev-Yeltsin experiment in democratization an aberration, while Putin’s tyranny is Russia’s fate? There are plenty of liberal (and therefore brave) Russians who are optimistic, if only in the long run. They see their current president reaching back to a gruesome past for the means to shore up his power, hoping that he will make Russia great again. Yet those means were the ruin of Soviet Russia. The Bolsheviks, at least, had a new, bold, untried, albeit disastrous answer to the question of what should be done. The Putinists have no such excuse."

 

[Desertkiwi]

I employ a simple response to Tanks one eyed and totally bias posts..ignore them and him.

Would have to agree mate, I've had my say and will move on.

Whether or not Mr Tanks does in fact live in NZ, he certainly isn't a countryman of mine.

 

[OzDigger]

I employ a simple response to Tanks one eyed and totally bias posts..ignore them and him.

Agreed, I've put him on the ignore list.

At least we've made it clear that his continued Freedom to promote his Falsehoods and Twisted opinions are allowed in the Democratic West, even if they're not believed.

 

[tank]

Agreed, I've put him on the ignore list.

At least we've made it clear that his continued Freedom to promote his Falsehoods and Twisted opinions are allowed in the Democratic West, even if they're not believed.

Here is some thoughts on what has happened since “Tank” began to post on this forum.

(Summary of messages from forum participants regarding “Tank" messages)


Please correct if this is not so:
The Tank’s posts are pretty much the first attempt to tell what Russians think about the events of World War II on this forum.


What the Forum members know about the role of the Red Army in the main events of World War II.


# They know that the Allies won the war, with a help from the Red Army.

# They know that the Soviet Union lost 27 million people in that war and you, as the decent people, did feel sorry for the Russians

# They know about the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk, and even equated these battles with the Great Battles in North Africa and Normandy.

# Not sure if there anything else ...


So... for long time everything was fine, but than ...

The “Tank” appears, and he begins to tell what Russians think about World War II, and some of the Forum members didn’t really like it.



Here is the reaction on the “Tank’s” posts by some members of the Forum :

# What does he allow himself.

# How dare he say that it was not the Allies who won the war but Russian.
# How dare he say that the Russians fought better than the Allies.

# How dare he say that the Russians did not leave thousands of corpses of Soviet soldiers after capturing German positions, but they won because they were the best soldiers.

# And so on and so forth


All this time the “Tank” was kept asking: if you do not agree with the interpretation of any facts please disproof it with your own evidence.

But not a single one of the Forum members was listening the “Tank”.


Without any evidence, some members of the Forum, simply started indiscriminately call the facts and documents confirming the facts provided by Tank - the Russian and communist propaganda.

In short, without any good reason the “Tank” became the most hated person on the forum.


However, some people will ask the Forum members to explain:

1. How come you have decided that you and only you know the history of World War II better than anyone else?

2. Why did you decide that no one has the right to say anything about the Second World War that does not match your vision of the history of World War II?


3. What about freedom of speech and tolerance?


There is a hope that among the Forum participants there are many people who believe that such behavior is unacceptable in a democratic society.


I hope the Forum members remember that this is the historical part of the Forum, where everyone has the right to say anything about the WW2 history.

If a dignified people do not agree with any fact, they simply try to refute this fact with their evidence.


Sure, the members of the Forum consider themselves respected people so why can’t we act and tread each other as the respected people.


Tank.


P.S. If you can’t stand the “Tank’s” posts please ignore his posts. It would be greatly appreciated by “Tank".

 

[Mirof]

Hello friends
What did you had for breakfast today ?
Nice weather here in Brussels .

Oh by the way, some minutes ago I saw a tremenduous leap on my sismograf . I had a look at the news on TV and the net but nothing; and then, I saw this and made further researches . Every time our dear tank posted a message, the uproar of laughs made my sismograf jump up and down .

 

[OzDigger]

Yes that Tank is a funny guy, from his outlandish comments you would think he was about 12 years old. However, Sergey from Auckland, New Zealand is actually 57.

He wasn't always the most hated person on the forum.

For most of his forum history he behaved 'normally', posting pictures of his Toy German and Russian tanks etc. That changed last year when he started giving us history lessons about how Russia basically won World War Two...alone, while the Allies did nothing of any particular help.

The latest history lesson from the Russian Myopic Perspective being this thread; 'The Great Patriotic War 1941 - 1945'. He seemed to have forgotten the fact that WW2 actually started in 1939, of course Russia was on the Germans side initially, an inconvenient truth perhaps.

When he started his 'Russian Campaign' last year a lot of forum members suggested his 'History' threads were unwelcome on a Toy Soldier forum. And tried to convince him that many of his posts lacked credulity and were often based on propaganda information from WW2 or from the more recent Revisionist Russian History that has propagated since Putin came to power. However he continues to deny that there could be any such thing as Russian propaganda and just keeps posting stories on his innumerable threads. Many are printed in Russian of course, so they could be recipes for Borscht for all we know, or care.

Hello friends
What did you had for breakfast today ?
Nice weather here in Brussels .

Oh by the way, some minutes ago I saw a tremenduous leap on my sismograf . I had a look at the news on TV and the net but nothing; and then, I saw this and made further researches . Every time our dear tank posted a message, the uproar of laughs made my sismograf jump up and down .
View attachment 259922

 

[Mirof]

Dear Ozdigger

Thanks for clarification
I don't hate him, I firstly thought he was somebody of my age ( 70 + ), ex member of the Party, babling .
Then I thought the guy was very young just defending brain washed badly digested propaganda and begon to answer gently with some facts; as the German-Soviet pact . More and more the kind of non answers he gave convinced me that he was indeed very young and completey besoted, so I choose to tease him, no way, it goes over his head .
Now you say he is 52, this changes my perception of him.. again .
Or is it pure provocation from him ? No . Just eventualy a potential danger for democracy . It remember me, now, of an older colleague when I began to work 50 years ago, he was a convinced Maoiste trying to enlist me, even giving me the Little Red Book . Once seeing me laughing each time he professed his convictions he asked me : What would you do if we were at war with a communist country ?" My answer, automatic, without having to think about it, was : " I put you directly in jail, no potential traitor in my back .." 50 years after, my answer stay the same ; he has the right to speak freely his mind . At least we are aware of who/what he is .
I will try to control any visceral reaction to his posts .

Thanks again

 

[OzDigger]

There's been worse people than him on the forum over the years and I can relate to his belief that his country has not received enough recognition for it's battles during WW2. In the past there have been a number of clashes between forum members (including myself) about a number of issues, including who did what in WW2.

Tank wouldn't cause so many problems if he just posted threads about what Russia did, even if there was some propaganda or exaggeration. However he seems to delight in denigrating Battles of the Allies compared to Russian Battles.

He even ventures into civilian matters claiming superiority of Russian products. For example during our Bush Fires he blamed the Australian government for not using a specific Russian Fire Fighting Aircraft. There are many sound reasons why that didn't happen.

And perhaps he forgets that Russia continues to deny it was involved in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in 2014.

There comes a time when to call it a day, and just try and get along with other forum members who are from a variety of countries and cultures. There's something I learned a long time ago on this and other forums. No amount of posts on multiple threads are going to convince people of anything very different to something they already believe, be it politics or scale size etc. You'll just annoy people.

Dear Ozdigger

Thanks for clarification
I don't hate him, I firstly thought he was somebody of my age ( 70 + ), ex member of the Party, babling .
Then I thought the guy was very young just defending brain washed badly digested propaganda and begon to answer gently with some facts; as the German-Soviet pact . More and more the kind of non answers he gave convinced me that he was indeed very young and completey besoted, so I choose to tease him, no way, it goes over his head .
Now you say he is 52, this changes my perception of him.. again .
Or is it pure provocation from him ? No . Just eventualy a potential danger for democracy . It remember me, now, of an older colleague when I began to work 50 years ago, he was a convinced Maoiste trying to enlist me, even giving me the Little Red Book . Once seeing me laughing each time he professed his convictions he asked me : What would you do if we were at war with a communist country ?" My answer, automatic, without having to think about it, was : " I put you directly in jail, no potential traitor in my back .." 50 years after, my answer stay the same ; he has the right to speak freely his mind . At least we are aware of who/what he is .
I will try to control any visceral reaction to his posts .

Thanks again

 

[tank]

Was the Tiger a really King?

IS-2 number 98 under command the senior lieutenant V.A. Udalov.
In one combat the crew of senior lieutenant V.A. Udalov destroyed three King Tigers.


The first “Tiger-B” tanks captured by Soviet forces were sent to the GABTU NIIBT at Kubinka for comprehensive study. There were vehicles numbered 102 and 502.The tanks were going to the loading station under their own power. During the drive there were revealed numerous defects.

Tank number 502, captured in Oglenduva on August 13, 1944.


The left idler wheel bearings failed at 86 kilometers and the left drive sprocket mounting bolts sheared. The temperatures reached 30 degrees Celsius (86 F), turned out to be too much for the cooling system. This led the right engine block to overheat and to continual overheating in the gearbox.

The tank #102 was repaired, but after that the right side running gear had completely failed. It was replaced with the one from another tank, but this one almost immediately it failed again when the drive shaft roller bearings failed.

Tests of the tank 102 failed. It was possible to overcome only 113 km, after which the tank broke down completely.


Besides this, time and again, it was necessary to change the track's elements, which were constantly breaking (cracking) due to the Tiger's colossal weight, especially when the tank was turning. The design of the track tensioning mechanism hadn't been completely perfected. As a result, the tension had to be adjusted after every 10-15 km of travel.

In the end, both captured tanks were delivered to the NIIBT test ground, where vehicle #102 underwent further maneuverability tests. This testing encountered severe obstacles connected with the extremely low reliability of the chassis elements, engine, and transmission.

It was determined that 860 liters of fuel was sufficient for 90 km of movement on an dirt road, even thouth the vehicle's manual indicated that this amount of fuel should have been sufficient for 120 km. Fuel consumption per 100 km was 970 liters instead of the 700 liters according to this same manual.
Average speed 25-30 km/h was on the highway and 13.4-15 km/h on an dirt road. The average speed when moving over rough terrain was : 6-7 km/h.

The maximum speed 41.5 km/h given in the tank's technical documentation, was never achieved in the maneuverability tests even once.
In order to obtain an objective evaluation of the Tiger's armor protection, it was decided to subject the hull and turret of the captured vehicle with turret number 502. to shell fire. Most of the systems and assemblies of the Tiger were removed for further study. The tank’s armament was sent to the ANIOP for a study.

Before the shelling at the firing range, November 1944.

The fire tests were conducted in the fall of 1944 at Kubinka, during the course of which the following results were obtained:

"1. The quality of armor on the "Tiger-B" tank, in comparison with the armor on the "Tiger-I," and "Panther," tanks, as well as early production "Ferdinand" self-propelled gun, has sharply deteriorated. The first individual impacts caused cracks and spalling in the armor of the "Tiger-B" tank. Groups of shell impacts (3-4 shells) caused large-scale spalling and fractures in the armor.

2. Weak weld seams appeared characteristic of all hull and turret joints. Despite careful workmanship, the seams held up to shell impacts significantly worse than they did in analogous constructions on the “ iger-I," and "Panther," tanks, as well as the "Ferdinand" self-propelled gun.

3. Impacts of 3-4 armor-piercing or high-explosive fragmentation shells from 152, 122, or 100 mm artillery pieces caused cracks, spalling and destruction of the weld seams in the tank's 100-190 mm thick frontal armor plates at ranges of 500-1000 metres. The impacts disrupted the operation of the transmission and took the tank out of service as an irrevocable loss.

4. Armor-piercing projectiles from the BS-3 (100 mm) and A-19 (122 mm) gun completely penetrated when impacting the edges or joints of the "Tiger-B" tank's front hull plates at ranges of 500-600 metres.

5. Armor-piercing projectiles from the BS-3 (100 mm) and A-19 (122 mm) gun completely penetrated the "Tiger-B" tank's front turret plate at ranges of 1000-1500 metres.

6. 85 mm armor-piercing projectiles from the D-5 and S-53 gun failed to penetrate the tank's front hull plates or cause any structural damage at distances of 300 metres.

7. The tank's side armor plates were notable for their sharply unequal durability in comparison with the frontal plates and appeared to be the most vulnerable part of the tank's hull and turret.

After firing on the sides, calibers of calibers 76 and 85 mm.


8. The tank's hull and turret side plates were penetrated by armor-piercing projectiles from the domestic 85 mm and American 76 mm guns at ranges of 800-2000 metres.

9. The tank’s hull and turret side plates were not penetrated by armor-piercing projectiles from the domestic 76 mm guns (ZJS-3 and F-34).

10. American 76 mm armor-piercing projectiles penetrated the “Tiger-B” tank's side plates at ranges 1.5 to 2 times greater thanthe domestic 85 mm armor-piercing projectiles."

​

The final report of 16 February 1945 on the "Tiger-B" tests:

"The frontal hull and turret armor is low quality. Non-penetrating damage (dents) in the armor caused cracking through the armor and large scale interior spalling. The side plates were notable for their sharply unequal durability in comparison with the frontal plates and appeared to be the most vulnerable part of the tank's hull and turret.

Shortcomings:

The chassis is complex and is not durable.
The steering mechanism is complex and expensive.
The side running gear is extremely unreliable.
The radius of action is 25% inferior to the "IS"-tanks.
The ammunition (except in the turret recess) is awkwardly located.
The excessive size and weight of the tank do not correspond to the tank’s armor protection and firepower."

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