Track Mud (1 Viewer)

[OzDigger]

what are they? you may be right, but I forgot about them

When K & C started producing polystone tanks they had extra polystone filling around the road wheels that was so thick that only about 3 mm of the wheels were proud of the filling, the wheels having a kind of 'carved in relief' appearance. Myself and several other K & C collectors believed that less would be better and Honour Bound proved that it could be done. Not everyone wanted this because of added costs etc, which caused the usual debates on the forum.

However K & C did decide to release AFVs with less gunk in late 2006, such as the Winter Hummel (WS079 $119) and M10 Tank Destroyer (BBA011 $115) that did not cost much more than sets with gunk. Subsequently most K & C tanks did not have much debris in the roadwheels/tracks except what was considered desireable for artistic effect and to provide additional strength. The M24 Chaffee Tank (BBA018 $129) released in January 2008 demonstrated that breakages could be an issue with some AFV prototypes and I guess K & C is now placing some debris where it will do most good, but of course you can't please anyone in this hobby, some will like the extras and some will not.

 

[Thompyt]

It is hard to give any validity to an opinion that says one mfg. item is better than another mfg. same item unless thay have both products to actually look at and fairly note the differences. Since according to this poster video-something or other says every mfg. is better than K/C anything, it is appropriate to note that the poster is merely being contrary and provocative, especially absent actually being a collector of K/C. Michael

Since I am the origin poster, I cannot see where my observation of a certain dislike is provocative and only asked the why. Please quote where I said I am not a K&C collecter. It's an opinion, whether certain other individuals take a dislike and state I should not post an observation is too bad. They are correct it is a free country, I can agree to disagree with their provocative statements.

 

[Thompyt]

Gentlemen,
Thanks or the positive informative posts. There is an abundance of knowledge here. Although it is hard to fathom the adversities derived from the question. Especially the 1:1 player who takes it personally for another collector to question K&C methods for moldings and comparisons to other manufacturers.

 

[Blowtorch]

Someone with a very big, expensive collection who has been collecting a long time and is well known to other collectors and the manufacturers.

Terry

I don't get how that translates into 'make it my way'. As I have never had my purchasing decisions influenced by any Treefrog prima donna, sounds good to me that Andy blew them off & went with business decisions driven by sound market factors, & not egos

 

[wayne556517]

I don't get how that translates into 'make it my way'. As I have never had my purchasing decisions influenced by any Treefrog prima donna, sounds good to me that Andy blew them off & went with business decisions driven by sound market factors, & not egos

What exactly is a "Trefrog prima Donna".

 

[Mitch]

sounds like a upmarket kebab... One trefrog prima donna with everything to go!!!

Seriously, about tracks. The chaffee was mentioned and the breakages but, was that not down to the packaging being the wrong size?? I heard from source that it was down to the part where the tracks went in being to shallow. If thats right then how many have broke because of less ''mud'' around the tracks that were not damaged from the box.
Mitch

What exactly is a "Trefrog prima Donna".

 

[Poppo]

It is hard to give any validity to an opinion that says one mfg. item is better than another mfg. same item unless thay have both products to actually look at and fairly note the differences. Since according to this poster video-something or other says every mfg. is better than K/C anything, it is appropriate to note that the poster is merely being contrary and provocative, especially absent actually being a collector of K/C. Michael

Well, one can also make "negative" and being " merely contrary" remarks( why not?) if he thinks that, and even if someone doesn' t have the products in front of his eyes ( photos show well).

About "provocative", well, untill there are not personal attacks or insults, I find ridiculous someone can feel provocated by a remark on a toysoldier!!

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I don't get how that translates into 'make it my way'. As I have never had my purchasing decisions influenced by any Treefrog prima donna, sounds good to me that Andy blew them off & went with business decisions driven by sound market factors, & not egos

It wasn't one person and there was more than one discussion. There was no prima donna. It was several people and it was a topic of discussion in which Andy took part. It wasn't an attack. Quite a few people including me prefer less mud on the tracks and more track and wheel detail. That was the opinion presented. No threats or tantrums, so no need to make it sound like a confrontation. It is possible for people to disagree about toy soldiers without getting into a fight.

Terry

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Well, one can also make "negative" and being " merely contrary" remarks( why not?) if he thinks that, and even if someone doesn' t have the products in front of his eyes ( photos show well).

About "provocative", well, untill there are not personal attacks or insults, I find ridiculous someone can feel provocated by a remark on a toysoldier!!

Good points made. Do we all at times take our collecting passion a bit too far. {sm2}

 

[Currahee Chris]

I think K&C constantly strive to improve their products and if you look at their linage, the tanks and tracked armor vehicles have consistently improved. As far as mud goes, I found this quote:

John Collins, author of Military Geography: For Professionals and the Public, describes one reason why no general or historian has sunk his or her teeth into the significance that mud has had on military history. “Commanders, staffs, and subordinates from the highest to the lowest of every armed service need to know how geology and soils affect combat and support operations, but most are bored to tears by those technical subjects.”

Mud: A Military History, CE Woo, Potomac Books Inc, 2006

This is a really interesting post- I had no idea such a book existed- of course no general- armchair or otherwise wouldn't be interested because it aint their six getting shot off- but ask any two bit grunt in the sand and he'll tell you ten different ways from Sunday how to maintain every piece of his kit to ensure that they stay as immaculate or combat ready as possible. A great deal of time in the army is spent on cleaning and maintaining vehicles, weapons and scores of other types of equipment.

Interesting to read on this topic over the years- I think all companies wrestle with the aesthetics of a piece versus the realism of a piece. If you think about it, this can go to a myriad of other subjects- why not show troopers with blown off limbs or bleeding profusely? Ever seen how much blood is caked onto an ambulance after carrying a casualty litter?? How about a trooper breaking down in tears or cowering in fear behind some logs or stumps because he's terrified of the current situation he's found himself in??

When I was with mech infantry units, a typical rule was that each company in the battalion would rotate their vehicles to the washrack for their monthly cleaning- that meant every vehicle in the battalion had been scrubbed on a monthly basis- returning from the field, it was done asap.

The army I was in, and granted, it was well after 1945 would have viewed a lot of tread mud as being ate up, a sign of incompetence. The German tankers were among the best in the history of warfare, showing too much mud makes them look like dolts, imo.

nice post Panzer Ace!!

 

[Panzer ace]

This is a really interesting post- I had no idea such a book existed- of course no general- armchair or otherwise wouldn't be interested because it aint their six getting shot off- but ask any two bit grunt in the sand and he'll tell you ten different ways from Sunday how to maintain every piece of his kit to ensure that they stay as immaculate or combat ready as possible. A great deal of time in the army is spent on cleaning and maintaining vehicles, weapons and scores of other types of equipment.

Interesting to read on this topic over the years- I think all companies wrestle with the aesthetics of a piece versus the realism of a piece. If you think about it, this can go to a myriad of other subjects- why not show troopers with blown off limbs or bleeding profusely? Ever seen how much blood is caked onto an ambulance after carrying a casualty litter?? How about a trooper breaking down in tears or cowering in fear behind some logs or stumps because he's terrified of the current situation he's found himself in??

When I was with mech infantry units, a typical rule was that each company in the battalion would rotate their vehicles to the washrack for their monthly cleaning- that meant every vehicle in the battalion had been scrubbed on a monthly basis- returning from the field, it was done asap.

The army I was in, and granted, it was well after 1945 would have viewed a lot of tread mud as being ate up, a sign of incompetence. The German tankers were among the best in the history of warfare, showing too much mud makes them look like dolts, imo.

nice post Panzer Ace!!

Thanks Chris!

I had no idea a book like that existed either. As it turns out the book in question deals with all aspects of mud and its effects on warfare, not just armor. I thought it was pretty appropriate for this discussion. I might even read it now that this discussion about K&C tracks has gotten to this point!

It is great to hear from someone who actually served in the military about this. If anyone can speak to this subject (or any about authenticity) it would be you.

I couldn’t agree with you more about companies dealing with realism. Mud, blood etc. At some point they all must ask how far they want to take it. War and all that it brings is disgustingly violent and dirty. Its aftermath is nothing short of devastation, from man down to machines and even the soil of earth. True reflections of this in the toy soldier world would not be palpable to most.

Mud on the tracks is a necessary touch as far as I am concerned. These vehicles fight in dirt, dirt makes mud and so on. In the end, I can honestly say that I have never made a purchase based on mud (or lack thereof) on the tracks.