Ukrainian SS Memorials in UK & Canada (1 Viewer)

[Desertkiwi]

 

[Desertkiwi]

I must say I found this revelation quite shocking to say the least.......

 

[Napoleon1er]

Mark Felton makes some great content.

 

[Combat]

Didn't Trudeau and the Canadian parliament just give a standing ovation to a former member of the Waffen SS because he was from Ukraine and fought against Russia? How dumb do you have to be to think that because someone fought Russia in WWII that they were the good guys? No one realized that Russia was on our side in WWII?

 

[theBaron]

Didn't Trudeau and the Canadian parliament just give a standing ovation to a former member of the Waffen SS because he was from Ukraine and fought against Russia? How dumb do you have to be to think that because someone fought Russia in WWII that they were the good guys? No one realized that Russia was on our side in WWII?

How dumb? As dumb as the Ukrainians who fought with the Germans against the Soviets. I get why they did, but they were so blinded by their nationalism and the hope that they would benefit from the defeat of the Soviet Union, that they'd regain their independence, that they could not see that had the Germans won, they would have subjugated the Ukrainians as Slavs and taken their land.

 

[jazzeum]

Didn't Trudeau and the Canadian parliament just give a standing ovation to a former member of the Waffen SS because he was from Ukraine and fought against Russia? How dumb do you have to be to think that because someone fought Russia in WWII that they were the good guys? No one realized that Russia was on our side in WWII?

The Waffen SS man was invited by the Speaker of the House who, along with Trudeau, was unaware of this person’s affiliation. Once it was revealed who he was, the Speaker resigned and Trudeau apologized.

There is a long contentious history between Ukraine and Russia so I don’t blame the Ukrainians in 1941 for siding with the Nazis. In the 1930s Stalin in the Holodomor starved Ukraine and approximately 3.5 million died; there were many instances of cannibalism. In addition, thousands of land owning peasants (kulaks) were sent to the Gulag. While in retrospect, siding with the Nazis doesn’t make any sense today, what people knew then what the Nazis were doing was limited. I’m sure the Ukrainians who fought alongside the Nazis were operating on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[Combat]

The Waffen SS man was invited by the Speaker of the House who, along with Trudeau, was unaware of this person’s affiliation. Once it was revealed who he was, the Speaker resigned and Trudeau apologized.

There is a long contentious history between Ukraine and Russia so I don’t blame the Ukrainians in 1941 for siding with the Nazis. In the 1930s Stalin in the Holodomor starved Ukraine and approximately 3.5 million died; there were many instances of cannibalism. In addition, thousands of land owning peasants (kulaks) were sent to the Gulag. While in retrospect, siding with the Nazis doesn’t make any sense today, what people knew then what the Nazis were doing was limited. I’m sure the Ukrainians who fought alongside the Nazis were operating on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

All Trudeau or anyone needed was a basic high school understanding of history to realize this was not a good idea. Russia was on our side in WWII. As a result, if someone was fighting against Russia during that war, it should have been a giant red flag. The Ukranians weren't just fighting for their national independence. The Ukrainians who sided with Germany committed numerous atrocities. They were complicit in murdering thousands of Jews. Inexcusable stupidity to invite this guy. Trudeau should have resigned in disgrace as well.

 

[jazzeum]

Trudeau profusely apologized for what was a major mistake. As you said they should have vetted the guy better, if they did at all. As far as I’m concerned (particularly as a Jew and a person who lost a distant cousin from Łódź to the Holocaust) the apology was sufficient and put the matter to rest.

 

[OzDigger]

I no longer subscribe to Mark Felton videos. The earlier vids were ok however, most now are clickbait that include a number of irrelevant video stock and historical inaccuracies ('Atomic' Lancaster bombers), and some are just personal rants (Buckingham Palace visit).

As for the Mark Felton Ukraine SS video, it includes a lot of unrelated film stock and images, some even looked fake like the divisional badges on a memorial stone. Reliable information on this matter is easily accessed on the web. Felton clearly used some fake news and exaggerated the situation to boost his Youtube income, nothing unusual there, that's what they do.

I've never been interested in the Eastern Front of WW2. Who were the 'Goodies'? More to the point, the Russians were allies with Germany before and during the early years of WW2. Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows, so there's that.

 

[wayne556517]

I no longer subscribe to Mark Felton videos. The earlier vids were ok however, most now are clickbait that include a number of irrelevant video stock and historical inaccuracies ('Atomic' Lancaster bombers), and some are just personal rants (Buckingham Palace visit).

As for the Mark Felton Ukraine SS video, it includes a lot of unrelated film stock and images, some even looked fake like the divisional badges on a memorial stone. Reliable information on this matter is easily accessed on the web. Felton clearly used some fake news and exaggerated the situation to boost his Youtube income, nothing unusual there, that's what they do.

I've never been interested in the Eastern Front of WW2. Who were the 'Goodies'? More to the point, the Russians were allies with Germany before and during the early years of WW2. Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows, so there's that.

Great post Matt.

 

[marco55]

The Waffen SS man was invited by the Speaker of the House who, along with Trudeau, was unaware of this person’s affiliation. Once it was revealed who he was, the Speaker resigned and Trudeau apologized.

There is a long contentious history between Ukraine and Russia so I don’t blame the Ukrainians in 1941 for siding with the Nazis. In the 1930s Stalin in the Holodomor starved Ukraine and approximately 3.5 million died; there were many instances of cannibalism. In addition, thousands of land owning peasants (kulaks) were sent to the Gulag. While in retrospect, siding with the Nazis doesn’t make any sense today, what people knew then what the Nazis were doing was limited. I’m sure the Ukrainians who fought alongside the Nazis were operating on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

This is a very good post Brad. The man in Canada was 98 so was born around 1925 so was 16 in 1941 and what Stalin did to the Ukrainians in the 30's probably made his hatred of the Soviets much greater than against the Germans.
Mark

 

[Desertkiwi]

I no longer subscribe to Mark Felton videos. The earlier vids were ok however, most now are clickbait that include a number of irrelevant video stock and historical inaccuracies ('Atomic' Lancaster bombers), and some are just personal rants (Buckingham Palace visit).

As for the Mark Felton Ukraine SS video, it includes a lot of unrelated film stock and images, some even looked fake like the divisional badges on a memorial stone. Reliable information on this matter is easily accessed on the web. Felton clearly used some fake news and exaggerated the situation to boost his Youtube income, nothing unusual there, that's what they do.

I've never been interested in the Eastern Front of WW2. Who were the 'Goodies'? More to the point, the Russians were allies with Germany before and during the early years of WW2. Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows, so there's that.

Fair point, however I enjoy Marks clips and while I don’t subscribe to him have found his videos refreshing and informative and far beyond the usual propaganda that we’ve been fed for decades about the history of WW2. He’s not scared of stepping on toes and gives insight and perspective on matters many other military historians shy away from.

The fact both the UK and Canada allowed such a staggering number of SS criminals into their country and kept it quiet disturbs me. But then we mustn’t forget the scramble of the Allies to round up all of Germanys rocket scientists to help wth with respective space programs ether.

The hypocrisy surrounding the current war between Ukraine and Russia is as relevant today as the conflict was during WW2 in my opinion.

As for the applause of of an SS soldier in the Canadian parliament that’s beyond comprehension and there are no excuses.

 

[Horus]

Fair point, however I enjoy Marks clips and while I don’t subscribe to him have found his videos refreshing and informative and far beyond the usual propaganda that we’ve been fed for decades about the history of WW2. He’s not scared of stepping on toes and gives insight and perspective on matters many other military historians shy away from.

The fact both the UK and Canada allowed such a staggering number of SS criminals into their country and kept it quiet disturbs me. But then we mustn’t forget the scramble of the Allies to round up all of Germanys rocket scientists to help wth with respective space programs ether.

The hypocrisy surrounding the current war between Ukraine and Russia is as relevant today as the conflict was during WW2 in my opinion.

As for the applause of of an SS soldier in the Canadian parliament that’s beyond comprehension and there are no excuses.

It used to be said that History is written by the Victors.
Now as with so many other things, History is interpreted differently by those wanting to put their own spin on it.
Even today the Hamas attacks and their disgusting atrocities are seen differently by many, especially in the Arab lands that many harbour a hatred of Jews and Israel, told by family and in education to hate them from an early age, who actively demostrate their support by coming out on the streets, not just there but in Western countries too.

 

[Combat]

This is a very good post Brad. The man in Canada was 98 so was born around 1925 so was 16 in 1941 and what Stalin did to the Ukrainians in the 30's probably made his hatred of the Soviets much greater than against the Germans.
Mark

This wasn't just a guy who was fighting for Ukranian nationalism against Stalinist Russia. He joined the Waffen SS. The Ukrainians committed numerous atrocities during the war. They were heavily anti-Semitic and voluntarily participated in the killing of tens of thousands of Ukrainian Jews. Whether they had cause to hate Russia does not excuse such disgraceful conduct during the war.

 

[OzDigger]

Fair point, however I enjoy Marks clips and while I don’t subscribe to him have found his videos refreshing and informative and far beyond the usual propaganda that we’ve been fed for decades about the history of WW2. He’s not scared of stepping on toes and gives insight and perspective on matters many other military historians shy away from.

The fact both the UK and Canada allowed such a staggering number of SS criminals into their country and kept it quiet disturbs me. But then we mustn’t forget the scramble of the Allies to round up all of Germanys rocket scientists to help wth with respective space programs ether.

The hypocrisy surrounding the current war between Ukraine and Russia is as relevant today as the conflict was during WW2 in my opinion.

As for the applause of of an SS soldier in the Canadian parliament that’s beyond comprehension and there are no excuses.

I agree that he does tend to produce videos that are rather controversial and he claims without political motivation. However I have my doubts as these videos often lack historical accuracy and in this case seem to support Russian claims that they are invading Ukraine to Denazify the country.

As for your war criminal claims, I can't find reliable evidence supporting that claim regarding Yaroslav Hunka or even the division he served in, in fact earlier investigations found that there was no evidence of any war crimes. It seems most joined that SS Foreign Division as they were Catholics and wanted to liberate Ukrainian people from Russian occupation.

That said I personally don't have much interest in the politics involved, past or present, my main issue is with the ever increasing number of videos on Youtube that are pure rubbish. Not to mention the woke rubbish promoted as fact in Australian media and the education system.

 

[Horus]

I agree that he does tend to produce videos that are rather controversial and he claims without political motivation. However I have my doubts as these videos often lack historical accuracy and in this case seem to support Russian claims that they are invading Ukraine to Denazify the country.

As for your war criminal claims, I can't find reliable evidence supporting that claim regarding Yaroslav Hunka or even the division he served in, in fact earlier investigations found that there was no evidence of any war crimes. It seems most joined that SS Foreign Division as they were Catholics and wanted to liberate Ukrainian people from Russian occupation.

That said I personally don't have much interest in the politics involved, past or present, my main issue is with the ever increasing number of videos on Youtube that are pure rubbish. Not to mention the woke rubbish promoted as fact in Australian media and the education system.

Same with the mainstream media in UK, BBC so biased now, ITV, C4 etc same.

 

[Desertkiwi]

I agree that he does tend to produce videos that are rather controversial and he claims without political motivation. However I have my doubts as these videos often lack historical accuracy and in this case seem to support Russian claims that they are invading Ukraine to Denazify the country.

As for your war criminal claims, I can't find reliable evidence supporting that claim regarding Yaroslav Hunka or even the division he served in, in fact earlier investigations found that there was no evidence of any war crimes. It seems most joined that SS Foreign Division as they were Catholics and wanted to liberate Ukrainian people from Russian occupation.

That said I personally don't have much interest in the politics involved, past or present, my main issue is with the ever increasing number of videos on Youtube that are pure rubbish. Not to mention the woke rubbish promoted as fact in Australian media and the education system.

I whole heartedly agree with both you and Steve regarding your comments about our MSM and would love to post further however there are 1 or 2 members on here who seem to take great delight at reporting 'posts' they deem inappropriate or break the rules surrounding political content etc.

At least we can still communicate like adults and have a meaningful discussion and agree to disagree and not make it personal unlike some on here.

Cheers Fella's.

 

[theBaron]

I no longer subscribe to Mark Felton videos. The earlier vids were ok however, most now are clickbait that include a number of irrelevant video stock and historical inaccuracies ('Atomic' Lancaster bombers), and some are just personal rants (Buckingham Palace visit)...

I've never been impressed with his videos. I guess I expect a higher standard of scholarship and presentation than the average 21st century viewer. Better than most historical videos online today, which are full of animation and post-millennial lingo, or the History Channel's content. But that's not a very high standard for Felton to surpass.

Prost!
Brad

 

[tdubel]

Trudeau profusely apologized for what was a major mistake. As you said they should have vetted the guy better, if they did at all. As far as I’m concerned (particularly as a Jew and a person who lost a distant cousin from Łódź to the Holocaust) the apology was sufficient and put the matter to rest.

Brad,
You are far more forgiving than my wife's family. They hate the Ukrainians to this day b/c they were directly affected. While they don't condone what Russia is doing today, they make the point that the Ukrainians are not wholeheartedly innocent. I have to say that I agree, WW2 was a mere 80 years ago. Not a lot of time has passed.

The problem with the "Russian Republics" is the leaders IMO are all megalomaniacs. If you look at history and modern, they all are tyrants or Russian puppets, take your pick, not a good answer either way. One day they are a friend, the next day, they are your enemy.

I do think there is a lot of innocent people in all of these countries, however, unfortunately, today, as in history, you are held accountable by your leaders. Take the case in point in Gaza - they allowed Hamas to be the leaders there, therefore, Israel is going to hold them accountable.

TD

 

[jazzeum]

Brad,
You are far more forgiving than my wife's family. They hate the Ukrainians to this day b/c they were directly affected. While they don't condone what Russia is doing today, they make the point that the Ukrainians are not wholeheartedly innocent. I have to say that I agree, WW2 was a mere 80 years ago. Not a lot of time has passed.

The problem with the "Russian Republics" is the leaders IMO are all megalomaniacs. If you look at history and modern, they all are tyrants or Russian puppets, take your pick, not a good answer either way. One day they are a friend, the next day, they are your enemy.

I do think there is a lot of innocent people in all of these countries, however, unfortunately, today, as in history, you are held accountable by your leaders. Take the case in point in Gaza - they allowed Hamas to be the leaders there, therefore, Israel is going to hold them accountable.

TD

Tom,

People can’t continue with the old enmities or things will never change. I understand the older generation hating them but the people of today want to change how they were. I can’t speak to Ukraine but today’s Germany is completely different than the Germany of the 30s and 40s. When I visited Germany in 2006 and 2016 I found that to be so. They don’t want to be associated with “that” Germany, which is why they have a smallish standing army. Recently, a munitions manufacturer wanted to build a plant in what used to be East Germany and the towns people said no. They were worried as to how they would be perceived if they allowed that to happen. Ukraine has a vibrant democracy and economy today and that bothered Putin. It’s not a perfect country but it was changing.