VEH017 Winter PzKpw IV Ausf F2 with Long Barrel 75mm and Winterketten (2 Viewers)

[braddinpa]

I purchased the PZ3 about 3 years ago for 299. I just purchased the Halftrack (not the command) and paid 299. No price increase in at least 3 years. And both included a figure. And both were well done.

 

[War Park]

I think this is a ballance between yield and quality. That's a thorny problem, because you can never have your cake and eat it too. Let us assume that a worker produces a good set will take 10 hours. But when he just spend 5 hours to produce a set, the quality of this set must be worse than the former. Especially, it is difficult to find more highly skilled professional workers in China nowaday. And I think that FL will never increase the volume of production by losing the quality. That's also not what customers want. Meantime, one continuously growing company will never fall into the past. Introduce more, newer, better products, and there will be a better future. Just like Apple company, iphone 4S is a classic and epoch-making product. And they will never produce 4S any more but to introduce 5\5s\6\6s\SE. Increasing the yield is simple to say, but there are so many risk for a company, such as capital chain and the time of investment returns etc. These problems are all deadly. As a new fans, although I really want to have the german sniper, but I would prefer FL would be better and better so that I will see more and newer and better products. Supporting each other is the most important thing. At last, looking for happiness through FL sets is our first and last goal, rather than bring ourselves troubles and burdens. Take it easy, just enjoy it, for all FL fans.
Best
Hangyu

 

[Baymax]

No, but you have stated at least twice that I'm aware of that our tanks now cost $350 which is bizarre if you just purchased and returned one for $299 + Shipping recently and we just released another one for $299 in a thread which you are currently engaged in conversation. Perhaps you just forgot how much you paid for it as after all it must have been days and days ago. Oh, and by the way, there isn't a single dealer that I'm aware of that charges shipping costs and certainly none that would charge return shipping costs on a "defective" product.



I do have a company to run which does keep me rather busy. But, just to show I'm a good sport and responsive we did measure the model mainly because I found it incredibly difficult to believe that we could have been off by that much. Guess what, we weren't.

The dimensions of VEH016 are:

197mm (Length) x 96mm (Width) x 88mm (Height)

You stated the correct dimensions of a 1/30 scale Panzer IV F1 should be: Length 197 mm, Width 95 mm, Height 89 mm. So apparently we were off 1mm on width and 1mm on height. It's a hand made product, I'd like to think we get a pass on that and the model is 1/30th scale as stated. Or, to make you happy, maybe we can call it 1/29.999984434 scale.

Here is an image showing the height measurement. I have images showing the others as well, but have neither the time nor inclination to post them. By all means, please post the images you surely must have taken of the "defective" panzer IV and your exacting measurements of it. Oh, and being the ones who make the models, let me inform you of something. It would be impossible for the measurements to be so far off as you have claimed resulting in a defective product. The model simply wouldn't fit together at all if the parts were so off - well, unless of course all 100+ parts shrunk at the exact same rate on the one model you purchased, measured, and returned. So it's much more likely that your measurements were flawed than that you received a "defective" model which was smaller than every other model in the production run.

View attachment 190183



"Injured party." Classic. I'm not accusing you of "perfidity" (which isn't a word by the way, it's perfidy or perfidious), I'm accusing you of being a unique mix of irrational, obtuse, and quite possibly disingenuous.

Anyone who is actually a customer of ours knows full well that we value our customers and provide excellent customer service. And had you purchased the model, measured it, and then contacted us about it while you still had it, we would have looked into what was going on. But you instead received it, returned it, and then come on here and claim it was defective/not as advertised and the first we've ever heard about it was buried in a thread on a public forum. When you return a defective "Questar Telescope", do you demand answers a month later by posting on an astrology forum and expect the MFR to provide you the radius of the lens of a product that they don't even sell any longer and you don't even own any longer?

Against my far better judgment, I have now answered your question. Now quid pro quo, answer my question: where did you buy this mysteriously defective and subsequently returned model from? Is it a secret?

As a final point, I'd like to nominate Brad's post #41 as post of the decade.

Matt

How can you sleep soundly knowing the model is 1mm out? That beats the hell out of a wooden ruler

 

[tdubel]

You say the product was defective and therefore caused harm (as you say you are an injured party). What is the harm? Were you physically injured as you would be with a consumer product that was defective, such as food or a drug? No, there was harm here. The harm is your anal retentiveness that prevents you from enjoying anything you purchase. When I used to purchase K & C wooden warbirds I used to examine them as you examine tanks. One time I asked to send one back and Andy graciously agreed and he sent me a substitute. When I emailed him about the substitute, he said "maybe these are not for you." I got the point and have not sweated the small stuff but have enjoyed the ones I have since purchased.

The following two rules might do you some good to help you live a stress free life: don't sweat the small stuff and rule number two, everything is small stuff.

Making military miniatures is an art, not a science. Would it be otherwise, but it's not. This isn't like making a pharmaceutical where you have specifications that have to be complied with before the product can be released to the public.

You indicate that you will no longer be purchasing FL products. Without a doubt that is the best news Matt will probably get today.

Brad

Brad, I think this may be your post ever, seriously, just sound advice for anyone whose blood pressure boils unnecessarily. Thanks for posting
Tom

 

[bradleyl30]

You say the product was defective and therefore caused harm (as you say you are an injured party). What is the harm? Were you physically injured as you would be with a consumer product that was defective, such as food or a drug? No, there was harm here. The harm is your anal retentiveness that prevents you from enjoying anything you purchase. When I used to purchase K & C wooden warbirds I used to examine them as you examine tanks. One time I asked to send one back and Andy graciously agreed and he sent me a substitute. When I emailed him about the substitute, he said "maybe these are not for you." I got the point and have not sweated the small stuff but have enjoyed the ones I have since purchased.

The following two rules might do you some good to help you live a stress free life: don't sweat the small stuff and rule number two, everything is small stuff.

Making military miniatures is an art, not a science. Would it be otherwise, but it's not. This isn't like making a pharmaceutical where you have specifications that have to be complied with before the product can be released to the public.

You indicate that you will no longer be purchasing FL products. Without a doubt that is the best news Matt will probably get today.

Brad

There is one more rule, Rule #62: Don't take yourself so **** seriously!

ROFL, this is a great post. Thanks Brad!

 

[bradleyl30]

Thank you for the dimensional data. Obiously the piece I received was defective and the problem was not a design or production defect; which is what I was trying to verify.

Perfidity-Treacherous, Oxford English Dictionary

I stated clearly that the First Legion Panzer price had increased to $349 USD. Panzer is a generic term for Armor and refers to all German Armored vehicles, including the Sd. Kfz. 251 priced on your website at $349.00

The dealer I purchased the Panzer IV F1 from is an Ebay seller as other sellers like Treefrog Treasures and Hobby Bunker were out of stock on this item. I normally return defective products to the vendor I purchased it from; not the manufacturer.

You are correct that the Oxford English Dictionary counts it as a word. Every other dictionary claims it is a misspelling of perfidy and is either incorrect or a colloquial pronunciation of the valid word. Sort of like people who say "nuke-lar" instead of "nuc-le-ar."

 

[Warrior]

Thank you for the dimensional data. Obiously the piece I received was defective and the problem was not a design or production defect; which is what I was trying to verify.

Ok, this post is confusing to me.

You state the piece you bought was "defective and the problem was not a design or production defect"...............

Matt pointed out his tanks are 197mm by 95mm by 89mm; what were the dimensions on the tank you bought?

Surely you kept notes, so please, enlighten me and let me know what the dimensions of your tank were.

Frankly, your comments make no sense to me, as in zero; if the product did not measure out to 1/30th scale and in your words was "defective and the problem was not a design or production defect"............then what caused the defect? In other words, how could it measure out wrong if it was NOT defective or designed or produced defectively?

What caused the defect then; did the UPS driver run the box over in your driveway, did someone sit on the box, did the seller beat the box senseless with a hammer prior to packing it?

I don't get nor follow your logic here.

Like a moth to a flame, I am drawn into this vortex of buffoonery and now I need to know what the issue was with the vehicle which caused it to measure out not to your exacting standards if in fact it was again, "defective and the problem was not a design or production defect"..............

Wow.

 

[jazzeum]

If the toy soldier thing doesn't work out George, you have a great future as a member of the Bar :wink2:

 

[jazzeum]

Brad, I think this may be your post ever, seriously, just sound advice for anyone whose blood pressure boils unnecessarily. Thanks for posting
Tom

Tom (and Matt too), thanks. It only took 11 years {eek3} You can expect another great one when Haley's Comet returns ^&grin

 

[Warrior]

If the toy soldier thing doesn't work out George, you have a great future as a member of the Bar :wink2:

What do you mean if? You need to speak to my accountant; he calls this a hobby gone awry, not a business..................:wink2:

I frequent bars as a result, does that count?

 

[jazzeum]

Maybe we can switch places for a week but I'd probably run the business into the ground.

 

[bradleyl30]

What do you mean if? You need to speak to my accountant; he calls this a hobby gone awry, not a business..................:wink2:

I frequent bars as a result, does that count?

Hahahaha, that just made this whole thread worth while!

 

[Warrior]

Maybe we can switch places for a week but I'd probably run the business into the ground.

True, but think of the collection you'd end up with....................

 

[Vezzolf]

Because it's been so much fun this first time around? ^&grin^&grin^&grin^&grin

I kid of course. As of now, we have no plans to redo the model. Perhaps when we are able to expand capacity we will revisit it. But if we keep remaking tanks that sell out, which we've done several times, then we just delay the new tanks we're working on.

Matt, Forget the Panzer IV's^&grin.....Just make us a Stalingrad Winter Stug III and an earlier war grey Stug III Ausf D (short barrel)....If anyone is with me on these 2 AFV's lets agree to place a pre-order on those right now and leave Matt a 20% down payment:salute::.....Expected delivery 6-8mos???......Who's in.{sm4}

 

[The Military Workshop]

What caused the defect then; did the UPS driver run the box over in your driveway, did someone sit on the box, did the seller beat the box senseless with a hammer prior to packing it?

I don't know much about scale or even armour but I think I am uniquely qualified to comment on this mystery. Hard to believe I know but in a prior life I was a Detective and more recently have sold a few armoured vehicles of various claimed scales. I have also played many games of Cluedo going back to a very young age.

It is my strong belief the seller did it with a hammer in the living room.

 

[Vezzolf]

I have the PZ 3. And I can tell you that none of the FL figures come up to the turret roof or even close. View attachment 190128View attachment 190129

The Grey FL Panzer III was FL at their VERY BEST:salute:::salute::....I have one and I recently re-painted one of their DAK Panzer III's in panzer grey and applied a different turret number.....so I have 2 right now....Excellent Paint and Detail on that model:salute::....I wish it was made available again with a different turret number as I would add a 3rd one without reservation.....Again one of FL's VERY BEST EFFORTS that included a commander figure as well.

 

[Gebhard]

Why is it that the guys who don't actually own any First Legion products are always the ones who complain the most ^&confuse. Forget it, I think I just answered my own question. :wink2:

 

[jazzeum]

This thread got me to look at the FL vehicles, which I don't often do and I'm thinking about ordering a T 34.

Who says there is no bad publicity, right Matt? ^&grin

 

[katana]

I would like to see First Legion come out with a Normandy Porsche Turret King Tiger with Panzer Lehr markings. A perfect companion piece for the Fallschirmjager figures. A Panther A would also be good and an Sd. Kfz. 251 in Summer camouflage. Ditto the Sd. Kfz. 231 with the star radio antenna rather than the bathtub. The supplimentry frontal armor plate had been replaced by thicker hull armor by 1944, making a leaner meaner recon 8 rad. Amazing that these vehicles served throughout the war with only minor modifications. The Puma was different and the TG model is 1/30 scale; so no need for another of those or the excellent TG hetzer. I only wish TG had put hatches in both models to mount figures.

 

[graycap]

I know that very briefly some King Tigers were attached to Panzer Lehr, but none carried Panzer Lehr divisional markings and all were abandoned or blown up - none saw service with the division. The only Porsche King Tigers in Normandy were serving with the Heer's 503 Heavy Tank Battalion.