Why do we love and hate K&C. (6 Viewers)

[Capitolron]

Well most of you know where I stand on K&C - It was my first love in the Toy Soldier World. Nothing can compare in this hobby when you get that feeling when you are looking at your new purchase and deciding where should it go.

I have been a great fan of King & Country and make no bones about that I believe they are the best Toy Soldier Company in the World - period ! This is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

That does not mean I don't collect other Toy Soldier Companies products. Many of you have seen my Britains, Conte, CS and FL figures - I like to buy what I like. It's a fun hobby and I have a lot of fun with it.

What makes me wonder are the people who seek to run down or smear K&C ? It is always present here on this forum - I guess they feel the need to be negative. I have no problem discussing issues with releases and even correct colors of products. That is what this place is for - the exchange of views. But, to smear one maker in favor of another - I don't get it ?

King & Country set the world on fire over 25 years ago and they are still doing it today - LOVE or HATE them, it does not matter - facts are facts and you have in King & Country - THE INDUSTRY LEADER.

 

[Njja]

Njja


Careful, Careful - I had the same thing happen to me - sudden interest in what I was buying and encouragement to buy more that I was on the fence about .... didn't it see it coming - the next thing I know I was buying her a 320 from my German friends

Ron

Mine wants a house at the beach.......or in Princeton!

 

[Njja]

What makes me wonder are the people who seek to run down or smear K&C ? It is always present here on this forum - I guess they feel the need to be negative. I have no problem discussing issues with releases and even correct colors of products. That is what this place is for - the exchange of views. But, to smear one maker in favor of another - I don't get it ?

I must say I wonder the same thing myself. I do not collect JJ, or HB, or several other lines. You have to draw the line somewhere so I do not comment on their products. Why be concerned with something I don't collect?

I can see someone pointing out a scale issue, or a historial mistake, but why bother to tell us you don't like the product?

Just buy what you like. Maybe some folks just live to complain.

 

[The Military Workshop]

To quote my King and Country T shirt (I bought it in Hong Kong in about 1995) ......
"The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys".
Attributed to Oscar Wilde.

In relation to Capitolron and Njja's comments I too find it hard to understand why some feel the need to constantly air their negative views about K&C. Quite simply if K&C's range can't satisfy them in relation to quality, price, availability, reliability of release and variety then no other Toy Soldier range will even come close.

There are many great figures out there from various brands. Collect what you like in terms of era, size etc but please spare us the rest of us from constant gripes if you don't like something and are not likely to buy it. And if you do like something praise it without having a go at somebody else's product.

Regards
Brett

 

[maddadicus]

I have stated this ad naseum..but it is bad form to go onto a particular mfg. forum and rah rah his competitor's stuff, unless it is your intent to troll for the grief that you would get from the mfg. supporters..It is ok if we critique said mfg. on his own forum about his own product. I do not know if it is a language issue, but some of the critiques tend to be outright rude, as posted. Again, that tends to me the mark of a forum troll, because it will responded to negatively as above..Having said that, I no longer look at K/C releases as being well researched or historically correct. There are enough professional historians around this forum to shoot holes in near every K/C release for their lack thereof..I buy K/C because of the " purty colors " and the polystone feel of his vehicles and armor. One just has to know that K/C is a mass produced product designed for how easy can it be made, how fast can it be made and can we cut corners by forgetting any number of details..That is the business model for making money. Some of the rivet counters will just have to get their paint brushes out, play with putty to cast a missed whatever, or close your eyes to look at the latest dispatches..Or you can buy someone elses product , who takes his time with research, accurate details, etc..But as long as you understand the K/C method and still want to buy their product, be a little more polite in your assessments and know that your rants are not going to change anything, as long as K/C is doing so well in the current marketplace....Michael

 

[sammy719]

I have stated this ad naseum..but it is bad form to go onto a particular mfg. forum and rah rah his competitor's stuff, unless it is your intent to troll for the grief that you would get from the mfg. supporters..It is ok if we critique said mfg. on his own forum about his own product. I do not know if it is a language issue, but some of the critiques tend to be outright rude, as posted. Again, that tends to me the mark of a forum troll, because it will responded to negatively as above..Having said that, I no longer look at K/C releases as being well researched or historically correct. There are enough professional historians around this forum to shoot holes in near every K/C release for their lack thereof..I buy K/C because of the " purty colors " and the polystone feel of his vehicles and armor. One just has to know that K/C is a mass produced product designed for how easy can it be made, how fast can it be made and can we cut corners by forgetting any number of details..That is the business model for making money. Some of the rivet counters will just have to get their paint brushes out, play with putty to cast a missed whatever, or close your eyes to look at the latest dispatches..Or you can buy someone elses product , who takes his time with research, accurate details, etc..But as long as you understand the K/C method and still want to buy their product, be a little more polite in your assessments and know that your rants are not going to change anything, as long as K/C is doing so well in the current marketplace....Michael

Glad to see that you do collect K&C, but as far as your comments on bad detail, cutting corners, and research, you have lost your mind...Sammy

 

[maddadicus]

Glad to see that you do collect K&C, but as far as your comments on bad detail, cutting corners, and research, you have lost your mind...Sammy

If you look closer at what I said, any number of his releases can be challenged for being historically inaccurate ,or missing legitimate details by those who are knowledgeable of such things. Never said anything about bad details, but missed details and only on certain vehicles..or figures..Heck, not long ago, K/C mfg. a totally fabricated, not even close WW1 armored car..But, having said that, the rivet counters just have to get used to these cutting of some corners for a mass produced product, that is highly in demand right now by a marketplace that really does not care about the trivial stuff. The hate K/C crowd ought get over it, but the love K/C crowd should want to know if the tank or figures they are buying even were involved in the conflicts or theatre of operations, represented by the paint scheme or uniform..May not make a difference in the overall sales of the stuff, but to some it might..Michael

 

[Njja]

I no longer look at K/C releases as being well researched or historically correct. There are enough professional historians around this forum to shoot holes in near every K/C release for their lack thereof......Michael

Wonderful point Michael. I don't care how much research you do there are always going to be people out there that will know more then you do! If you build a tiger tank and carefully research everything about it someone will notice that you have two fewer bolts on the deck then the 1944 model actually had!

A number of years ago I wrote an article on Hess Toy Trucks. It was to my knowledge the first article about their orgin, history, and production ever done. I wrote to Hess and received a lot of information from a nice woman that was involved in their production. I even provided current market values via a price guide I had published to Mr. Hess's daughter who contacted me after the article was published. A few years later I was asked to write a follow up article which was also published.

The letters I received were incredible, they were all nice but the details some of these people focused on were unbelievable! I learned from Hess which models were produced in Hong Kong. I never knew how many different locations were used to produce the models. I had folks that had gone over the trucks with a magnifing glass and determined slight differences in the molds, along with slight differences in some of the lettering which determined that had been run from different molds at different locations. I was asked so many questions that both myself and the nice woman at Hess lost interest!

These were lovely little trucks sold from Thanksgiving till Christmas only.....
not the Hope Diamond. Its true some of the early models still command thousands of dollars but the original plastic used was of poor quality and it tends to yellow, become brittle, and occasionally melt.

My point is no matter how much research Andy does, someone will always point out one to many buttons on a jacket!

 

[Uthred]

If you look closer at what I said, any number of his releases can be challenged for being historically inaccurate ,or missing legitimate details by those who are knowledgeable of such things. Never said anything about bad details, but missed details and only on certain vehicles..or figures..Heck, not long ago, K/C mfg. a totally fabricated, not even close WW1 armored car..But, having said that, the rivet counters just have to get used to these cutting of some corners for a mass produced product, that is highly in demand right now by a marketplace that really does not care about the trivial stuff. The hate K/C crowd ought get over it, but the love K/C crowd should want to know if the tank or figures they are buying even were involved in the conflicts or theatre of operations, represented by the paint scheme or uniform..May not make a difference in the overall sales of the stuff, but to some it might..Michael

Michael, I can only speak about the Barbarians, having studied the subject for over 20 years now, and being the proud owner of a multilingual library on the subject. K&C Barbarians are not historically accurate. First there's the problem with the different tribes, they come from all over the place: there are Celts from Gaul and Britain, Visigoths, Franks, Alans, etc. No such mixed tribe could have existed, even though it's a known fact the Barbarians incorporated warriors from other tribes in their armies.

Then there's the problem of appearance: Wrong kind of pants, wrong kind of shirt, wrong Roman left overs worn, wrong kind of weapons. Again, this group is mixed, with Barbarians from over a 4 century span put together. Apparently they traded weapons and gear before going to war.


Does it mean I don't like them? No way! I love them and I only wish K&C made some more, 12 being such a small number...


My point is that sculpting and painting are what really matter to me. When I want historical accuracy I buy academic books, not toy soldiers!


Just my two cents on the subject.

Cheers...

Uthred

 

[thebritfarmer]

Michael, I can only speak about the Barbarians, having studied the subject for over 20 years now, and being the proud owner of a multilingual library on the subject. K&C Barbarians are not historically accurate. First there's the problem with the different tribes, they come from all over the place: there are Celts from Gaul and Britain, Visigoths, Franks, Alans, etc. No such mixed tribe could have existed, even though it's a known fact the Barbarians incorporated warriors from other tribes in their armies.

Then there's the problem of appearance: Wrong kind of pants, wrong kind of shirt, wrong Roman left overs worn, wrong kind of weapons. Again, this group is mixed, with Barbarians from over a 4 century span put together. Apparently they traded weapons and gear before going to war.


Does it mean I don't like them? No way! I love them and I only wish K&C made some more, 12 being such a small number...


My point is that sculpting and painting are what really matter to me. When I want historical accuracy I buy academic books, not toy soldiers!


Just my two cents on the subject.

Cheers...

Uthred

What a great post. That you can still find enjoyment even though you know they are not accurate. I also enjoy my figures for what they are.

 

[Uthred]

What a great post. That you can still find enjoyment even though you know they are not accurate. I also enjoy my figures for what they are.

Thanks, britfarmer!

Sometimes I wonder if some collectors forget they are colleting toy soldiers, not real ones. I know I don't!


Cheers...

Uthred

 

[kilted vampire]

If you look closer at what I said, any number of his releases can be challenged for being historically inaccurate ,or missing legitimate details by those who are knowledgeable of such things. Never said anything about bad details, but missed details and only on certain vehicles..or figures..Heck, not long ago, K/C mfg. a totally fabricated, not even close WW1 armored car..But, having said that, the rivet counters just have to get used to these cutting of some corners for a mass produced product, that is highly in demand right now by a marketplace that really does not care about the trivial stuff. The hate K/C crowd ought get over it, but the love K/C crowd should want to know if the tank or figures they are buying even were involved in the conflicts or theatre of operations, represented by the paint scheme or uniform..May not make a difference in the overall sales of the stuff, but to some it might..Michael

Michael you and I know this is called compression. The art of trying to get the most bang for the buck in a limited space or object. In the Lionel world we have lived with that for years and the rivet counters have railed for years.

What a great post. That you can still find enjoyment even though you know they are not accurate. I also enjoy my figures for what they are.

They're bleedin' toys aren't they? Bob Newharts School of Pyschology "Just stop it" What we need here is a talking Gecko....

 

[maddadicus]

In all honesty, everything I buy in the way of tanks and vehicles, no matter the mfg. have to pass the K/C style test. That means if I purchase a tank from someone else, it is because that vehicle in color ,size and detail closely matches what I own in K/C. Not saying that it is fair to other mfg. but my tastes will not allow for a dark, grungie like real paint scheme in my collection..Michael

 

[Njja]

Thanks, britfarmer!

Sometimes I wonder if some collectors forget they are colleting toy soldiers, not real ones. I know I don't!


Cheers...

Uthred

I think when they exceed $100 they become Military Miniatures.

Toy soldiers usually come in a plastic bag and probably cost $10.....you can

see I haven't bought any since 1957 when I got a great bag of Marx Foreign

Legionaires for .99 down the shore.

 

[Uthred]

I think when they exceed $100 they become Military Miniatures.

Toy soldiers usually come in a plastic bag and probably cost $10.....you can

see I haven't bought any since 1957 when I got a great bag of Marx Foreign

Legionaires for .99 down the shore.

Calling toy soldiers military miniatures is the spin some collectors use to justify their expenses to their families, but we collect toy soldiers, really. Some are metal, some are plastic, the sculpting and painting is better than it used to be, but they are toy soldiers nonetheless.

By the way: is this the Treefrog Treasures Military Miniatures Forum or The Treefrog Treausures Toy Soldiers Forum?


A K&C warbird may be a military miniature, but who can afford them?


99 cents for a bag of Marx originals... those were the days!


Cheers...

Uthred

 

[damian]

Calling toy soldiers military miniatures is the spin some collectors use to justify their expenses to their families, but we collect toy soldiers, really. Some are metal, some are plastic, the sculpting and painting is better than it used to be, but they are toy soldiers nonetheless.

By the way: is this the Treefrog Treasures Military Miniatures Forum or The Treefrog Treausures Toy Soldiers Forum?


A K&C warbird may be a military miniature, but who can afford them?


99 cents for a bag of Marx originals... those were the days!


Cheers...

Uthred

I collect toy soldiers.
That is why I am not so obsessed with 100% accuracy.
The original Britains figures were definitley toy soldiers.
However I agree that the distinction has been blurred.
K and C lead the way with this with their venture into matt back in the day.
Since then the stakes have been upped all the time.
I suppose those St Petersburg models at 2000 GBP for a Carthaginian elephant are truly militray miniatures but at that price I think you are entitled to demand 100 % accuracy.
However as K and C, Figart i, WB and now FL have released newer sets so the accuracy issue has become more importnat.
I also think a lot of modellers have now started collecting toy soldiers and they are well known for being pretty demanding about accuracy.
Anyway I love all the toy soldiers in my collecction, K and C, WB, Trophy, Little Legion Conte.

 

[HAWKEYE]

Hey guys, i still want kc to be as detailed as possible especially with what camo pattern was used where. As for capitaltron, kc is the best matte toy soldier company and probabbly the best overall. But how did you not ever collect trophy figures as they were probably the best gloss toy soldier made.

 

[jazzeum]

Sorry but I disagree (speaking only of course as a collector, not as one of the moderators). When, as John said, they exceed $100 or approach the quality that we now expect, they've ceased to be toy soldiers but are military collectibles. Even if you don't have a Warbird (and I have several ), if you've bought some Figarti, K & C or First Legion, these are not toys anymore.

We call them toy soldiers but they're anything but toys. Toys we throw around and put them in a toy box. The figures we now collect we carefully save the boxes and put them in display cases.

 

[damian]

Sorry but I disagree (speaking only of course as a collector, not as one of the moderators). When, as John said, they exceed $100 or approach the quality that we now expect, they've ceased to be toy soldiers but are military collectibles. Even if you don't have a Warbird (and I have several ), if you've bought some Figarti, K & C or First Legion, these are not toys anymore.

We call them toy soldiers but they're anything but toys. Toys we throw around and put them in a toy box. The figures we now collect we carefully save the boxes and put them in display cases.

Fair enough Brad.

 

[Uthred]

Sorry but I disagree (speaking only of course as a collector, not as one of the moderators). When, as John said, they exceed $100 or approach the quality that we now expect, they've ceased to be toy soldiers but are military collectibles. Even if you don't have a Warbird (and I have several ), if you've bought some Figarti, K & C or First Legion, these are not toys anymore.

We call them toy soldiers but they're anything but toys. Toys we throw around and put them in a toy box. The figures we now collect we carefully save the boxes and put them in display cases.

I don't agree, Brad. People who collect toys, even those toys that were meant for children, would never throw them around!


Children throw their toys around, adult collectors never would do such a thing.


Cheers...

Uthred