Zimmerit@The Bulge (2 Viewers)

[Firebat]

Firebat, excellent work. Your tank looks amazing.

Any chance you take commissions for those less talented who cannot replicate your work?

Thanks to all for your complements......

Since most did not understand the mission of Battle Scene Productions (As I have mentioned I have now left that behind ). My new mission and my new direction will soon be revealed. I love this hobby, but I do enjoy it in my own special way, which many do not agree with.....BUT....As of late many do.

When revealed, you will see it will gather those who believe that this type of work can be achieved in our hobby and we will attempt to show those that are interested, to do this yourself. If you feel as though you cant, then we will provide means to have someone do it for you for a reasonable compensation.

BUT....Doing it yourself is so rewarding.......STAY TUNED I will open a thread in the Dioramas Section shortly entitled BATTLEGROUND ART.

Those who believe in the concept of BATTLEGROUND ART will have to accept the reality of scale, detail, presentation etc.. It will not be discussed here, means will be provided to discuss and showcase our interests in a private venue, so we do not irritate those who cant deal with what we are into.

Regards
Alex

 

[Firebat]

This was the scary part painting the name on the turret....What do you think.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Looks like the real thing. Anneliese and crew in winter early 1945.


Terry

 

[OzDigger]

Now Alex will have to repaint the name against a dark background {eek3} ^&grin

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Now Alex will have to repaint the name against a dark background {eek3} ^&grin

No he won't. It's correct the way it is - white hand lettering on a dark background. What makes it confusing to you is A) the full whitewash in the photo as opposed to minimal worn off whitewash on the model
or
B) You are looking at it upside down again ^&grin

Terry

 

[OzDigger]

No he won't. It's correct the way it is - white hand lettering on a dark background. What makes it confusing to you is A) the full whitewash in the photo as opposed to minimal worn off whitewash on the model
or
B) You are looking at it upside down again ^&grin

Terry

Oh Yes he will ^&grin

The name "Anneliese" is currently on a light colored background when it should be against a darker background, not to mention that the whitewash should be heavier. This won't be a problem for Alex as he does like to get things Right, speaking of which "Anneliese" should be on the Right Hand Side, not the Left ^&grin

Sorry Alex, but you did ask for some input mate.

 

[Mitch]

factually the name was painted on both sides of the barrel However, one side was painted first and a few days later when the crew were less busy they painted it on the other half. I agree that replicating the picture Terry has posted would require a darker background but, Alex is going for a later period when the whitewash was worn off or, so he stated.

I only have two pics taken of this AFV just before it was ditched and, its in a right old mess.
Mitch

 

[OzDigger]

factually the name was painted on both sides of the barrel However, one side was painted first and a few days later when the crew were less busy they painted it on the other half. I agree that replicating the picture Terry has posted would require a darker background but, Alex is going for a later period when the whitewash was worn off or, so he stated.

I only have two pics taken of this AFV just before it was ditched and, its in a right old mess.
Mitch

Can you post photos showing both sides as I have only ever seen photos of "Anneliese" on the RHS. Imo the background would have been darker no matter what condition the whitewash was in.

 

[Mitch]

If I get around to scanning these prints I was given and have acquired then yes if not, then no. You have to remember that the base colour of the tank is the colour that will show through when the whitewash is wearing off. Its not like the models in this hobby where you get a perfect dark circle or similar neatly done to put either personalised names or, unit markings. I doubt the crew had time in that theatre to repaint a section of barrel another colour to make the name stand out. well, from discussions with the crew and other unit survivors that's the impression I got.

we also have to be wary of the belief that a very small number of pics used in many books over many years are taken verbatim. New pictures from veterans and from the masses at German archives are being found all the time which disprove certain things seen as fact. Not everyone or even any will ever get published but, it does not mean that what's already printed is right.

Being interested in this type of thing I have asked about colour pattern and similar to nearly all the veterans that I have spoken to and some can remember a lot some not so much but, its better to get the facts from those who were there IMO.

Alex has rendered the Konigstiger rather well for what he is aiming for IMO of course. How quick whitewash comes off is also dependent upon weather, use, cover or left outside and, how the mix actually was made and what was used in the first place
Mitch

 

[Firebat]

Mitch

I could really use those pics you mentioned.


OZ

The real pic of Anneliese was with maximum whitewash, I did choose to do it just before it got destroyed and took artistic license assuming the whietwash would have worn and the tank with a long battle history would look pretty crappy. I painted the name on both sides which appears correct.

I wanted the camo to show through from an artistic standpoint, because I think the all white is boring. The name is painted on a dark background but I guess it does not look that way, because the heavy white accent is not around it.

Overall I wanted to give a different prospective of the famed "Anneliese". And it is not done yet.

Alex

 

[OzDigger]

Mitch

I could really use those pics you mentioned.


OZ

The real pic of Anneliese was with maximum whitewash, I did choose to do it just before it got destroyed and took artistic license assuming the whietwash would have worn and the tank with a long battle history would look pretty crappy. I painted the name on both sides which appears correct.

I wanted the camo to show through from an artistic standpoint, because I think the all white is boring. The name is painted on a dark background but I guess it does not look that way, because the heavy white accent is not around it.

Overall I wanted to give a different prospective of the famed "Anneliese". And it is not done yet.

Alex

No probs Alex, I thought you aiming for 100% accuracy on this job, fine by me if you want some artistic license.

Mitch, I look forward to seeing proof of the name on both sides.

I still can't see how the amount of whitewash subsequently applied/worn off would affect the background coloration of the name as I believe the background was the original Normandy coloration. That is my understanding of the matter anyway, not that I have first hand access to the finer details of such things.

 

[Firebat]

No probs Alex, I thought you aiming for 100% accuracy on this job, fine by me if you want some artistic license.

Mitch, I look forward to seeing proof of the name on both sides.

I still can't see how the amount of whitewash subsequently applied/worn off would affect the background coloration of the name as I believe the background was the original Normandy coloration. That is my understanding of the matter anyway, not that I have first hand access to the finer details of such things.

Oz


The name IS painted on the original coloration. There essentially is no artistic license, the whitewash wore off and the original color is coming through. It is a pretty easy concept, and quite accurate, if I dont say so myself. The scene it wil be displayed in will be called The last days of Anneliese. I should have it done in a few weeks.


Alex.

 

[Mitch]

Alex...

Its fine as it is.
Mitch

 

[OzDigger]

Oz


The name IS painted on the original coloration. There essentially is no artistic license, the whitewash wore off and the original color is coming through. It is a pretty easy concept, and quite accurate, if I dont say so myself. The scene it wil be displayed in will be called The last days of Anneliese. I should have it done in a few weeks.


Alex.

I look forward to seeing the end result, here's a link with Five photos (about halfway down) of # 314 (Anneliese) that I was using as a reference to my previous observations regarding background color etc, note that no Anneliese on LHS of barrel when relevant photo was taken. Btw, it seems very few if any trackguards were left on the tank:

http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=184

 

[Mitch]

Thing is you are posting old pictures of the AFV when it was initially whitewashed and, not after it had come off. The pictures That are available of this AFV prior to its move to the east and not whitewashed show its camo colouring. There are several more in the archives at Freiburg.

I have looked at this site and several of the pics are still displayed as such and such even when we now know through proper research that such and such was actually something else entirely so, the site may look authorative but, its weak on a number of pictures etc that are mislabelled.


Mitch

 

[Firebat]

Oz, Mitch and others I appreciate your imput and discussions like this make the hobby better for those of us who are into this. My new website and forum is just for this purpose. And I think the general collector does not enjoy this that much.

So I invite those of you who like this aspect of the hobby to join me in my world www.battlegroundart.com a thread is opened for this topic already. Alex

 

[OzDigger]

Thing is you are posting old pictures of the AFV when it was initially whitewashed and, not after it had come off. The pictures That are available of this AFV prior to its move to the east and not whitewashed show its camo colouring. There are several more in the archives at Freiburg.

I have looked at this site and several of the pics are still displayed as such and such even when we now know through proper research that such and such was actually something else entirely so, the site may look authorative but, its weak on a number of pictures etc that are mislabelled.


Mitch

The Five photos on the link have been verified correct by the Commander of # 314, seemed like a reliable soure to me :wink2:

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I look forward to seeing the end result, here's a link with Five photos (about halfway down) of # 314 (Anneliese) that I was using as a reference to my previous observations regarding background color etc, note that no Anneliese on LHS of barrel when relevant photo was taken. Btw, it seems very few if any trackguards were left on the tank:

http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=184

Are there larger photos , because these are so small it is impossible to make out the name on the gun or the 314. I have larger versions of the first 2 photos. These are here

 

[Mitch]

Oz...
Your not reading what I said. it was not about these pictures the Whitewashed ones anyway which, have been published in many books etc. I mentioned that many pictures they have on their site are factually incorrect and, with new research or, better I should say, this has been proven. As I mentioned I have spoken to the crew and many survivors of this unit and, members of the unit. I am happy with the reliability of my sources of information being that it is primary and not, secondary in nature.

Terry...

These pics all have the name on its quite clear in these pics what it is. The main one where they have undertaken a large amount of repair is the one where the side guards are not on and the one probably where Oz states to Alex no guards were on the AFV!! The dates of these pics are quite accurately known before some of the battles and areas they went and, later pics of this unit show guards back on. They would have been removed to aid the work they were undertaking.

So long as Alex uses the AFV in a east setting the depiction is accurate
Mitch

The Five photos on the link have been verified correct by the Commander of # 314, seemed like a reliable soure to me :wink2:

 

[OzDigger]

Are there larger photos , because these are so small it is impossible to make out the name on the gun or the 314. I have larger versions of the first 2 photos.

Terry, I'm having some probs loading a larger pic of the LHS of the Tiger, here's a link that includes it:
http://tankforum.model-space.co.uk/...-Sch-Pz-Abt--503-Tiger-II--P--Dragon-kit.aspx

Despite all the timber etc against the LHS of the tank you can see (I hope) that the name was not applied there at that stage.


I was able to load this photo of the crew (I must rejoin photobucket, should make loading pics easier)



Crew members: Ogrf. Rötz Gunner (Richtschütze), Gefr. Buhl Driver (Fahrer), Gefr. Stadlbauer Loader (Ladeschütze), Gefr. Niemann Radio Operator (Funker), Uffz. Joachim Jaeckel Commander (Kommandant)