2019 Baseball season (8 Viewers)

Good lord, if Ryan doesn't belong in the HoF, there are dozens of others that don't belong. Ryan had 7 no-hitters, 12 1-hitters, owns the all-time strikeout record, led his league in K's 11 times, owns the all-time lowest hits per inning allowed record, was an 8 time All-Star, garnered MVP votes 7 times, Cy Young Award votes 8 times, pitched 5386 innings, going over 200 innings 14 times, won way over 100 games in each league, had 61 career shutouts, and had 222 complete games. I mean, if Ryan doesn't deserve the HoF, the whole concept of the HoF needs to be torn down and restarted from scratch. Just as a matter of fact, Ryan was voted into the HoF on 98.79% of the ballots, so someone felt he deserved to be there. -- Al

In terms of longevity, I can't think of another pitcher who maintained the same quality as Ryan over such a lengthy career. Baseball is a team game. And he played for some real lousy teams. It's like Wilt Chamberlain. The greatest NBA player. He only won two NBA championships including one after his prime but he was hands down the best basketball player of all time.
 
I realize it's a minority position on Ryan but one on which there is some debate. His no hitters and one hitters are impressive but those don't guarantee you admission to the Hall. He was a strikeout machine but he also gave up more walks than he has strikeouts. He does have 324 wins but look at how long he pitched. His WHIP and WAR are not as good as some of the greats of the game, such as Seaver, and if you look at Mike Mussina's WHIP and WAR, they're comparable to Ryan's and Mussina is a marginal Hall of Famer. Ryan is in so it's not worthy of that much debate.

Going back to Trout for a second and those who think the Angels will never win or haven't done right by him, see Mike Trout Didn’t Go on the Market. It Came to Him.

From the article:

"The Angels have reached the playoffs with Trout just once, when they were swept by Kansas City in a 2014 division series. But the team is far from hopeless, with a 584-550 record in Trout’s seven full seasons and a farm system that ranks No. 6 over all, according to Baseball Prospectus.

Since wildly overpaying for Albert Pujols and Josh Hamilton early in this decade, the Angels have added high-impact players like shortstop Andrelton Simmons, outfielder Justin Upton and the two-way star Shohei Ohtani. General Manager Billy Eppler signed catcher Jonathan Lucroy and pitchers Cody Allen, Trevor Cahill and Matt Harvey to one-year deals this winter, and he has steadily modernized the way the Angels use technology.

Still, the Houston Astros are the dominant team in the A.L. West, and Trout could have used his clout to publicly demand that the organization do more to close the gap. He never has, he said in a 2017 interview in Anaheim, because he believes in Eppler and his lieutenants.

'They’re doing a good job, trying to put the players in the right spots,” Trout said then. “You’ve got to trust it. There’s only so much that they can do.'"
 
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In terms of longevity, I can't think of another pitcher who maintained the same quality as Ryan over such a lengthy career. Baseball is a team game. And he played for some real lousy teams. It's like Wilt Chamberlain. The greatest NBA player. He only won two NBA championships including one after his prime but he was hands down the best basketball player of all time.
You would have to go back to such legends as Young, Johnson, and Alexander to find pitchers that played 20+ years and stayed so effective until almost the end of their careers, or Greg Maddux more recently. There just aren't very many. -- Al
 
I realize it's a minority position on Ryan but one on which there is some debate. His no hitters and one hitters are impressive but those don't guarantee you admission to the Hall. He was a strikeout machine but he also gave up more walks than he has strikeouts. He does have 324 wins but look at how long he pitched. His WHIP and WAR are not as good as some of the greats of the game, such as Seaver, and if you look at Mike Mussina's WHIP and WAR, they're comparable to Ryan's and Mussina is a marginal Hall of Famer. Ryan is in so it's not worthy of that much debate.

Going back to Trout for a second and those who think the Angels will never win or haven't done right by him, see Mike Trout Didn’t Go on the Market. It Came to Him.

From the article:

"The Angels have reached the playoffs with Trout just once, when they were swept by Kansas City in a 2014 division series. But the team is far from hopeless, with a 584-550 record in Trout’s seven full seasons and a farm system that ranks No. 6 over all, according to Baseball Prospectus.

Since wildly overpaying for Albert Pujols and Josh Hamilton early in this decade, the Angels have added high-impact players like shortstop Andrelton Simmons, outfielder Justin Upton and the two-way star Shohei Ohtani. General Manager Billy Eppler signed catcher Jonathan Lucroy and pitchers Cody Allen, Trevor Cahill and Matt Harvey to one-year deals this winter, and he has steadily modernized the way the Angels use technology.

Still, the Houston Astros are the dominant team in the A.L. West, and Trout could have used his clout to publicly demand that the organization do more to close the gap. He never has, he said in a 2017 interview in Anaheim, because he believes in Eppler and his lieutenants.

'They’re doing a good job, trying to put the players in the right spots,” Trout said then. “You’ve got to trust it. There’s only so much that they can do.'"
No doubt Trout is a class act and I hope it all works out.
To the statement that Ryan walked more people than he struckout, that is simply incorrect. His strikeout to walk ratio was 2-1 for his career, with 5714 K's to 2795 BB's. Both marks are all-time MLB records. He also hit 158 batters in his career, another reason he was the most feared pitcher in MLB during his career. -- Al
 
I stand corrected on the walks. What I meant to say is that he owns the record for most walks in a career. In addition, his hit strikeout to bases on ball ratio is only around 2, which puts him in the mid 200s all time, not the greatest. Although his rate of hits per 9 innings is the best ever, his WHIP is just 266th all time. Obviously, his control affected his results, which is amazing when you think of his ratio of hits per 9 innings. He has some great individual stats but that’s about it, in my opinion.
 
That's what most HOFer's are in for, their individual stats.Ryan belongs there.
Mark
 
That's what most HOFer's are in for, their individual stats.Ryan belongs there.
Mark
Correct. The stats are what gets you there. In addition, of the 80 player elected pitchers in the HoF, Ryan's WAR is ranked #20, greater than such legends as Koufax, Gibson, Drysdale, Ford, Glavine, etc. Like I alluded to before, if Ryan doesn't deserve to be there, no one does since the live ball era started in 1920. -- Al
 
I stand corrected on the walks. What I meant to say is that he owns the record for most walks in a career. In addition, his hit strikeout to bases on ball ratio is only around 2, which puts him in the mid 200s all time, not the greatest. Although his rate of hits per 9 innings is the best ever, his WHIP is just 266th all time. Obviously, his control affected his results, which is amazing when you think of his ratio of hits per 9 innings. He has some great individual stats but that’s about it, in my opinion.


Is there any player in the Hall of Fame that doesnt fall short in a particular stat, here and there? Or are they all the best when viewed from any perspective?

"For many years, Babe Ruth was known as the King of Strikeouts. He was known for his all or nothing batting style. He led the American League in strikeouts five times, and accumulated 1,330 of them in his career." Hmmmmm, get Ruth out!

Since wildly overpaying for Albert Pujols and Josh Hamilton early in this decade,......... the Angels have added high-impact players like shortstop Andrelton Simmons. outfielder Justin Upton and .'"

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Oh please. Both former Braves who were hardly high impact.
 
Trout may be the best paid player in MLB but players in other sports dwarf his salary.

Mike Trout Received a Huge Payday. But Others Still Dwarf Him

He will earn a drop in the bucket of what Messi, who plays for Barcelona in La Liga, makes. Stephen Curry of the Warriors and James Harden of the Rockets make more and I don't hear anybody complaining about those salaries.

Last night I heard something interesting on one of the business channels (sorry I do not remember which one):

NBA players have the highest salaries, followed by MLB players and then NFL players. A big part of that is roster size. The NBA only has 13 players on a roster, MLB has 26 and the NFL has 53.
 
Last night I heard something interesting on one of the business channels (sorry I do not remember which one):

NBA players have the highest salaries, followed by MLB players and then NFL players. A big part of that is roster size. The NBA only has 13 players on a roster, MLB has 26 and the NFL has 53.

Regarding the above comments on Ryan, I can’t say all of you are wrong. I just see it differently. I’ve never been a big fan of his as a player and was super happy when the Mets beat him in 1986. Of course, my feelings for Mike Scott go way beyond that.

Regarding salaries, our sports have nothing on European soccer where not only are the salaries large but the size of the transfer fees are ridiculous.
 
Regarding the above comments on Ryan, I can’t say all of you are wrong. I just see it differently. I’ve never been a big fan of his as a player and was super happy when the Mets beat him in 1986. Of course, my feelings for Mike Scott go way beyond that.

Regarding salaries, our sports have nothing on European soccer where not only are the salaries large but the size of the transfer fees are ridiculous.

Brad:

Mike Scott is not popular with Giants fans either.

-Jason
 
Jason, why is that? There's a great scene in the 86 playoffs where some of the Mets in the dugout are examining some of the balls he had used and knowingly shaking their heads, "yeah, they're scuffed."
 
Jason, why is that? There's a great scene in the 86 playoffs where some of the Mets in the dugout are examining some of the balls he had used and knowingly shaking their heads, "yeah, they're scuffed."

Brad:

When the Astros clinched the National League West in 1986 Mike Scott was on the mound, throwing a no-hitter against San Francisco.

In that game he used the split finger fast ball quite a few times on his way to 13 strikeouts. He learned that pitch from Roger Craig prior to the 1985 season after Al Rosen arranged a meeting between Scott and Craig. Ironically Al Rosen would become the Giants GM and Roger Craig would become their manager shortly after Craig taught Scott that pitch.

-Jason
 
Opening Day is almost here, thank goodness. About time. Nats and O's jump right into it on Thursday playing NY's finest, the Mets and the Yankees. Really looking forward to Mad Max vs deGrom @ 1:05 pm. Be there or be square.^&grin -- Al
 
I am really looking forward to this season, even if the Giants are predicated to finish in last place.
 
I’m looking forward to it as well. In the NL East there will be four teams slugging it out but I think the Nats and Braves will be the better teams, with Mets and Phillies following. The Mets won 77 last year with a poor hitting team although they played well in the second half. I’m hoping for 8 more wins this year.
 
I’m looking forward to it as well. In the NL East there will be four teams slugging it out but I think the Nats and Braves will be the better teams, with Mets and Phillies following. The Mets won 77 last year with a poor hitting team although they played well in the second half. I’m hoping for 8 more wins this year.
The NL East is going to be a true rollercoaster if everyone lives up to the hype. Saw that the Braves are planning to start 2 rookies in their SP rotation, which is a lot of pressure for them to perform under, but we'll see how it all shakes out. Believe the Phillies are a little weak in SP, while the Nats and Mets are in good shape (although I have my reservations about #4 and #5 in the Nats rotation). Let the games begin! -- Al
 
The NL East is going to be a true rollercoaster if everyone lives up to the hype. Saw that the Braves are planning to start 2 rookies in their SP rotation, which is a lot of pressure for them to perform under, but we'll see how it all shakes out. Believe the Phillies are a little weak in SP, while the Nats and Mets are in good shape (although I have my reservations about #4 and #5 in the Nats rotation). Let the games begin! -- Al

I am going to have a close eye on the NL East. Lots of teams made moves in that division. While Harper's signing got the most press, those "small" moves by the Mets and Nats are usually the ones that pay huge dividends.
 
The NL East is going to be a true rollercoaster if everyone lives up to the hype. Saw that the Braves are planning to start 2 rookies in their SP rotation, which is a lot of pressure for them to perform under, but we'll see how it all shakes out. Believe the Phillies are a little weak in SP, while the Nats and Mets are in good shape (although I have my reservations about #4 and #5 in the Nats rotation). Let the games begin! -- Al

Well, the so called experts have extolled the Braves farm system as tops, or near the top, for some time. At some point, the up and comers gotta deliver. Or not. We shall see.
 
The Giants farm system consistently ranks near the bottom of MLB and sure enough they have not produced any of their own talent since Buster Posey in 2009.

Then again, Boston's farm system is ranked last in the MLB yet they just won a World Series.
 

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