A Sad Day in American History (8 Viewers)

[jazzeum]

This link shows how these psychopaths almost killed a member of the press trying to do his job.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CJxKMArpN0_/?igshid=1lci16gl6yxnx

 

[Louis Badolato]

I do agree it was a sad day in not just USA but world history.

However if that was an attempted coup it would classify as the most poorly planned and inept coup in the attempted coups and coups in recent years. When I think of coups I think of
1981 Spain when a Lt Col led 200 National Guard into Parliament
1986 Phillipines when the military deserted Marcos and supported the people ( a justified coup if ever there was one)
2006 Fiji (who have had frequent coups)
Also Thailand a few times plus plenty of African countries.

Some nut job wearing Indian headress sitting in the Senate for a few minutes and others wondering around without any obvious leader is not my idea of an attempted coup.

This was a different kind of coup. Most of this crowd were ordinary people who genuinely but misguidedly believed that massive voter fraud and international conspiracies had stolen an election. The white supremacists and Q-Anon conspiracy nuts who came armed with guns, tear gas, pipe bombs, etc, who used the shear mass of these others to break the barricades and overcome the Capital Police, were there to prevent the certification and hopefully intimidate the remaining Republican senators and congressmen into supporting the challenge to the vote. If this had worked, even if the challenge had failed, it would have been seen as failing strictly along party lines, further fracturing our already polarized nation. While for the moment it has failed, I fear we are looking at years of domestic terrorism by white supremacist groups under the guise of patriotism, and the honest but misguided members of that mob will be led to see it that way. This was the Fort Sumpter of what I fear will become a second US Civil War.

 

[tdubel]

All of the protests we have seen have gone off the rails from peaceful to violent riots due to somewhat organized extremists. Remember the White House in the Summer when the news crew was chased and beaten into cars losing camera and equipment? This stuff is nuts plain and simple.

On a side note, I just saw where there was a good bit of intelligence pre rally that showed perpetrators in the making yet was not either acted upon or taken seriously. Our Law enforcement needs to be better coordinated at the various levels. I don't know the whole story and am not going to point fingers at the Capitol police or DC police b/c when they regrouped together, they took care of this fairly quickly. However, at a cost, I believe there are now 5 people total who died in this riot. IMO , the biggest casualties are the police officer who died needlessly and the the police officer who was forced to defend with deadly force, that has to be an awful burden to carry.

TD

 

[Sahara]

Um, why is this thread still open?

 

[jazzeum]

This was a different kind of coup. Most of this crowd were ordinary people who genuinely but misguidedly believed that massive voter fraud and international conspiracies had stolen an election. The white supremacists and Q-Anon conspiracy nuts who came armed with guns, tear gas, pipe bombs, etc, who used the shear mass of these others to break the barricades and overcome the Capital Police, were there to prevent the certification and hopefully intimidate the remaining Republican senators and congressmen into supporting the challenge to the vote. If this had worked, even if the challenge had failed, it would have been seen as failing strictly along party lines, further fracturing our already polarized nation. While for the moment it has failed, I fear we are looking at years of domestic terrorism by white supremacist groups under the guise of patriotism, and the honest but misguided members of that mob will be led to see it that way. This was the Fort Sumpter of what I fear will become a second US Civil War.

Louis, I agree with you to a certain extent. Many of those people said this goes beyond Trump and that the movement will survive him. I’m not sure about a second civil war. Trump built up their expectations when he ran in 2016 but didn’t deliver; I’m not going to speculate on reasons. The problem is that this country is not working for many of these people. I’m sure there are some who just want to create mayhem but unless this country does something to help people who have been left out this will not end.

 

[jazzeum]

Um, why is this thread still open?

I think if we can discuss things civilly there is no reason to close the thread. Of course, Julie and the mods may feel otherwise.

 

[mikemiller1955]

all the video footage I have seen on tv makes me sick to my stomach...
I hope the facial recognition software helps catch every single one of them...
and they are all prosecuted to the full extent of the law...
mob mentality ruled the day...
no place for that here in this country...

 

[jazzeum]

Some people ain’t playin’ with a full deck. You have to watch this.

https://twitter.com/cleavon_md/status/1347334743323394048?s=21

 

[Sahara]

I think if we can discuss things civilly there is no reason to close the thread. Of course, Julie and the mods may feel otherwise.

I disagree. This is not the correct venue for such discussions. If this is to be discussed then we mind as well open up Pandoras box and revisit all the events that transpired in 2020 as well. Facts are one thing opinions are another. I have other political forums to go to to hear plenty of opinions.

 

[zblang]

Or.... if mods ok with it ,but people don’t care for it - easy fix... don’t click on it

 

[Nooooo9]

Confessing to a crime on camera is not smart. I hope everyone who breached the security and entered the Capital Building is prosecuted. However I don’t think that the people who showed up to peacefully protest are white supremists or mislead. I heard somewhere that 70% of Republicans and 20% of Democrats think that there was voter fraud in the election. The fact that nothing has been proven in court doesn’t change that perception. No evidence was allowed to be seen. It may take years for the facts to be known, if it ever comes to light. The fraud, if real would be well hidden. We are the largest democratic nation in the world and we have lost face and we have lost faith in the system. If nothing else I hope that congress gets that message. We need complete transparency in the voting process. No more keeping observers out of the counting rooms and putting cardboard over the windows. No more voting machines that can’t be audited. In the mean time we will have a President Biden and I hope He is up to the challenge.

 

[jazzeum]

I disagree. This is not the correct venue for such discussions. If this is to be discussed then we mind as well open up Pandoras box and revisit all the events that transpired in 2020 as well. Facts are one thing opinions are another. I have other political forums to go to to hear plenty of opinions.

I don’t completely disagree but this may be one of those times where an exception to the general rule should be made.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Confessing to a crime on camera is not smart. I hope everyone who breached the security and entered the Capital Building is prosecuted. However I don’t think that the people who showed up to peacefully protest are white supremists . . .

I completely agree with everything you said up to this point. I respectfully disagree with your characterization of no one having seen the evidence. All of the evidence that the soon to be former president and his supporters believed proved widespread voter fraud or conspiracy was presented to no less than 60 Federal and State courts, including the United States Supreme Court. Among these courts, 16 of the judges, including 3 of the Supreme Court justices were chosen and appointed to the Federal Bench by Mr. Trump. Of these courts, several reached the merits and addressed the "evidence." Among the "evidence" submitted were lists of allegedly dead people, who, when checked, were found to be alive; an affidavit from an "expert" who turned out to be a Trump Blogger, who had twice been convicted of submitting perjurious affidavits, another "expert" who attested in his affidavit that he was a military intelligence expert who later admitted he had been kicked out of intelligence training after one month of a six month course, had never served in intelligence, was a vehicle mechanic throughout his service, and thus had lied about his qualifications and alleged knowledge. If you read the decisions that address the evidence, each court who addresses it (12 of whom were Trump appointees) finds it to be patently insufficient, incredible (unbelieveable) as a matter of law, and rejects Trump and his supporter's claims as wholly without basis in fact and law. His proceduraral arguments and arguments that voting measures were in violation of various state's constitutions, when not rejected on laches grounds (the laws and procedures were in place for months or years prior to the election, and he failed to attack them until after he lost, thus seeking to prejudice hundreds of thousands of voters by disenfranchising them in an untimely manner, after the fact), were similarly rejected by each and every State and Federal Court to reach the merits of his challenges. His own appointed attorney general, Barr, and his own appointed Head of Cyber Security, both concluded that there was no evidence of fraud sufficient to have effected the outcome of the election. Indeed, the only people charged criminally with voter fraud in the State of Pennsylvania were 5 Trump supporters. The people in this nation have been misled by a media which does not report facts, only the opinions and spin they believe their constituents want to hear, on both sides of the aisle. Much of the blame for misleading the people of this nation must fall on a media which no longer acts in good faith, but sells its soul to extremists from both sides. But whoever the blame must fall on, many good patriotic people have been misled into acting in a way that will cause hundreds of them to face criminal prosecution for participating in an insurrection which resulted in the death of brave Capital Police Officer, whose head was bashed in from behind with a fire extinguisher while struggling with other riotors, and the theft and destruction of Federal Property. By the executive order imposed by Mr. Trump last summer, they face a minimum of 10 years in prison if convicted. This is a sad and terrible time.

 

[Warrior]

All of the protests we have seen have gone off the rails from peaceful to violent riots due to somewhat organized extremists. Remember the White House in the Summer when the news crew was chased and beaten into cars losing camera and equipment? This stuff is nuts plain and simple.

TD

Extremists regardless of the scenario/situation do more harm than good, they use a peaceful demonstration as an excuse to take things off the rails as Tom said; look no further than what happened on the 6th or what happened a number of times over the Summer where peaceful protests turned into rioting, burning and looting.

Good for you there Louis that you sat your kids down and used what happened on the 6th as a civics lesson on how not to behave in a democracy, or anywhere else for that matter; hopefully you did the same thing over the Summer during the rioting, burning and looting that occurred under the guise of protests for the BLM movement.

Extremists to the far left or the far right, or the 1%, ruin it for everyone else; over one million people turned out to show support for the president, less than 1% of them gave that whole crowd a black eye, just like the less than 1% who acted like horses ***** over the Summer at various protests, one here in Boston got very ugly, a large number of downtown Boston businesses were vandalized, looted and destroyed, just disgusting, that gave all the peaceful protestors a black eye as well.

This country is heading in the wrong direction, we'll see what develops with Biden in charge; he's got quite a task ahead of him, he has to bring the country back together and settle things down.

We'll see if he's the right man for the job soon enough.

Best of luck to him; he's going to need it.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Extremists regardless of the scenario/situation do more harm than good, they use a peaceful demonstration as an excuse to take things off the rails as Tom said; look no further than what happened on the 6th or what happened a number of times over the Summer where peaceful protests turned into rioting, burning and looting.

Good for you there Louis that you sat your kids down and used what happened on the 6th as a civics lesson on how not to behave in a democracy, or anywhere else for that matter; hopefully you did the same thing over the Summer during the rioting, burning and looting that occurred under the guise of protests for the BLM movement.

Extremists to the far left or the far right, or the 1%, ruin it for everyone else; over one million people turned out to show support for the president, less than 1% of them gave that whole crowd a black eye, just like the less than 1% who acted like horses ***** over the Summer at various protests, one here in Boston got very ugly, a large number of downtown Boston businesses were vandalized, looted and destroyed, just disgusting, that gave all the peaceful protestors a black eye as well.

This country is heading in the wrong direction, we'll see what develops with Biden in charge; he's got quite a task ahead of him, he has to bring the country back together and settle things down.

We'll see if he's the right man for the job soon enough.

Best of luck to him; he's going to need it.

George,

I agree with everything you and Tom say about extremists taking peaceful protests off the rails, it happens again and again. That is the point of my posts. I have taught my kids that extremists, domestically from the far left and right, and foreign, are always bad and dangerous. Vandals, looters, and others using violence should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no matter under what guise, "beliefs" or "ideals" they couch their violent actions.

 

[Warrior]

George,

I agree with everything you and Tom say about extremists taking peaceful protests off the rails, it happens again and again. That is the point of my posts. I have taught my kids that extremists, domestically from the far left and right, and foreign, are always bad and dangerous. Vandals, looters, and others using violence should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no matter under what guise, "beliefs" or "ideals" they couch their violent actions.

People who are appalled by what happened on the 6th should also be appalled at what happened numerous times over the Summer.

Republican or Democrat, you should be appalled at what has been going on in this country for close to a year; anyone who wants whoever was responsible for what happened on the 6th arrested should also want every rioter, looter and vandal arrested for what happened over the Summer.

It's a two way street; anyone who condemns one set of actions and does not condemn the other is a hypocrite.

 

[joesgis]

People who are appalled by what happened on the 6th should also be appalled at what happened numerous times over the Summer.

Republican or Democrat, you should be appalled at what has been going on in this country for close to a year; anyone who wants whoever was responsible for what happened on the 6th arrested should also want every rioter, looter and vandal arrested for what happened over the Summer.

It's a two way street; anyone who condemns one set of actions and does not condemn the other is a hypocrite.

YES!!! This nails it 100%


Joe

 

[Louis Badolato]

People who are appalled by what happened on the 6th should also be appalled at what happened numerous times over the Summer.

Republican or Democrat, you should be appalled at what has been going on in this country for close to a year; anyone who wants whoever was responsible for what happened on the 6th arrested should also want every rioter, looter and vandal arrested for what happened over the Summer.

It's a two way street; anyone who condemns one set of actions and does not condemn the other is a hypocrite.

100% agree with every word.

 

[jazzeum]

People who are appalled by what happened on the 6th should also be appalled at what happened numerous times over the Summer.

Republican or Democrat, you should be appalled at what has been going on in this country for close to a year; anyone who wants whoever was responsible for what happened on the 6th arrested should also want every rioter, looter and vandal arrested for what happened over the Summer.

It's a two way street; anyone who condemns one set of actions and does not condemn the other is a hypocrite.

The fallacy in your argument is that you are equating what happened after George Floyd’s death and Jacob Blake’s shooting with what happened here. We all decry wanton looting but Wednesday was an organized effort to bring down the government by right wing fascist elements who have been plotting yesterday on the dark web for awhile while the looting we saw in the summer was not on the same scale. It was looting plain and simple. Wednesday was an attempt to stop the results of an election.

They are simply not the same. One was treason and sedition. The other was wanton looting, which isn’t acceptable.

 

[tdubel]

Best way to sum this up , is a terrible 2020 for more reasons than I care to type culminated a real low point. Hopefully it is onward and upward on a lot of fronts, strong leadership, strong laws, strong democracy, strong Vaccine and whole lot of positive communication. Oh and a repeal of the State/Local tax limitation would be welcome to those of us in higher taxing jurisdictions........................

Keep it light and positive, only way to get through this garbage. I am looking forward to a weekend of sorting toy soldiers, retreating to childhood and letting the grown up worries sit for a bit!

TD