A Sad Day in American History (9 Viewers)

[hotel3alpha]

Well said Mike and the arrest numbers keep getting higher.

I mean when you stream yourself busting into the Capital building in Washington DC no less, you should expect a knock on the door from the Feds. Who have buddies who work there.

I also find it bizarre that folks love to "live stream" their actions. All our prosecutors on the forum here would love to have this evidence to charge a seditionist. I can see it now:

Feds: Is that you sir in the war paint with a Buffalo Horn hat inside of the Capital damaging government property, inciting a violent insurrection and basically trying to overthrow your government? Take you time to answer.

Buffalo Horn Boy: Well...it was a version of me. I'm really not like that as I am a really good person.

Feds: A version I see. Well lets see the version that shows you on...Oh I don't know...every TV news station and newspaper in the world. Please roll the tape.

The video rolls.

Feds: So, is that you?

Buffalo Horn Boy: Yes, its...well yes...I mean I was having a bad day and I've hit hard times and could only afford the Buffalo Horn hat, but not a jacket. But my pajamas were warm. Do you like my tats? I am seeking counseling now, found God and I swear I pay my taxes.

Feds: I ask the questions here Mr. Buffalo Horn Boy. Your witness...

So, even on the North Shore of Oahu this is big news. I spoke to two local Hawaii'n ladies who were just baffled at what's going on in DC. I sparked up a conversation with them to ask them for some advice on some local eateries and of course the news of the day eventually came up as we were watching some massive waves hit the shore. One of ladies named Kuwali said "dis is crazy man...they need some sun" I laughed at her simplistic diagnosis and prescription of enraged dissenters who participated in a plot that killed 5 people. Her friend who is half Tongan and half Samoan named Rosie said "yeah man, I'm scared to go to the mainland and when I do I wear a flower in my hair behind my ear". Confused I asked her why. She said she does that so that Americans (she refers to us as Americans even though she is one too) will know that she comes in peace. She said the flower in her hair always puts people at ease and Americans are always curious about her flower and when she tells them she is Hawaii'n, peoples eyes glaze over and tell her they have been there or have wished to go there. Basically, it disarms everyone she meets and the symbolism of the flower in her hair stirs up visions of paradise and the desire to see paradise and be in paradise.

Honestly my friends I felt like the luckiest guy in the world sitting on the beach with two big beautiful Hawaii'n ladies (and my family of course) talking about Hawaii'n pork BBQ, shaved ice and plumerias in your hair. That was paradise to me today. Its amazing the impact of this latest episode in our history and how far the news has traveled around the world. Its on the tip of everyones tongue and the taste is foul, bitter and sour.

But, I believe better days are ahead of us. I have to believe that to stay sane.

John from Texas

 

[damian]

Hopefully there will be arrests and justice for the perpetrators of all the many other riots and acts of civil disturbance which we have seen during the last year.

 

[bradleyl30]

I don’t understand the statements about arresting both sides.

The day of the infamous Bible stunt outside the White House 316 people were arrested and there was no video evidence of them breaking the law. All we have are claims that protesters threw water bottles at police in riot gear. Plus, other law enforcement agencies present dispute that the groups who charged them protesters properly informed their intentions or executed clearing the protesters.

This is why a lot of people get really angry when you conflate the two.

316 peaceful protesters arrested vs 74 total (61 for breaching Capitol and 14 earlier in the day) for an act of sedition.

 

[tdubel]

I don’t understand the statements about arresting both sides.

The day of the infamous Bible stunt outside the White House 316 people were arrested and there was no video evidence of them breaking the law. All we have are claims that protesters threw water bottles at police in riot gear. Plus, other law enforcement agencies present dispute that the groups who charged them protesters properly informed their intentions or executed clearing the protesters.

This is why a lot of people get really angry when you conflate the two.

316 peaceful protesters arrested vs 74 total (61 for breaching Capitol and 14 earlier in the day) for an act of sedition.

I don't believe that is the instance they are referring to, it may be the Federal Building in Portland, the 2 Police Precincts in Minneapolis, the CNN Bldg in Atlanta, etc etc. The Capitol Bldg is by far IMO the worst because of geography, what it houses and the symbol of America, however, the rioting behavior across the spectrum needs to be addressed, in other words a solution needs to begin and fast.

The behavior of extremists regardless of their beliefs have continued to display wanton disregard for life (through injury and death), physical destruction, act of inciting, etc. They all have one common denominator - they don't care about the consequences of their actions and they are lawless. If this type of behavior is universally condemned by Americans and not tolerated and fully prosecuted with all legal means necessary, it will be a good starting place to restoring our common goals which should be and is a better America.

I will say this till I am blue in the face, it is going to take leadership from all angles and walks of life and the vitriolic words and finger pointing are going to have to become a thing of the past if you want to move forward. Until that happens, these perpetual pissing contests are going to continue like the toddlers who want the last word in the daily news article. Just stupid if you ask me, but *** do I know.

TD

 

[nysoldiers]

I don’t understand the statements about arresting both sides.

The day of the infamous Bible stunt outside the White House 316 people were arrested and there was no video evidence of them breaking the law. All we have are claims that protesters threw water bottles at police in riot gear. Plus, other law enforcement agencies present dispute that the groups who charged them protesters properly informed their intentions or executed clearing the protesters.

This is why a lot of people get really angry when you conflate the two.

316 peaceful protesters arrested vs 74 total (61 for breaching Capitol and 14 earlier in the day) for an act of sedition.

I agree with you and those of us who are expressing our revulsion on Wednesday's mob attacks are not giving a "pass" to the violent protestors over the summer. Some of us just believe that Wednesday's events were the most dangerous attack on our Democracy since our founding. I can say a lot more about who incited and encouraged this insurrection but its too political.
Just watch the videos and interviews with the participants of this attack. They threatened to hang the Vice President and take legislators hostage, they attacked the police...injured many and murdered one officer, they threatened our legislators and vandalized our seat of government. They spouted racist and anti-semitic slogans and brought the Confederate flag into our hallowed halls. And most egregious they tried to overturn a fair and legal election based on lies and conspiracy theories. There are those who no matter how many investigations prove there was no
massive fraud will not accept that their candidate lost fair and square.

Time to move on.......

 

[mikemiller1955]

here are some pictures of graffiti on buildings in Portland through the "peaceful demonstrations"...
I think all violent protestors should be prosecuted...

 

[tdubel]

I agree with you and those of us who are expressing our revulsion on Wednesday's mob attacks are not giving a "pass" to the violent protestors over the summer. Some of us just believe that Wednesday's events were the most dangerous attack on our Democracy since our founding. I can say a lot more about who incited and encouraged this insurrection but its too political.
Just watch the videos and interviews with the participants of this attack. They threatened to hang the Vice President and take legislators hostage, they attacked the police...injured many and murdered one officer, they threatened our legislators and vandalized our seat of government. They spouted racist and anti-semitic slogans and brought the Confederate flag into our hallowed halls. And most egregious they tried to overturn a fair and legal election based on lies and conspiracy theories. There are those who no matter how many investigations prove there was no
massive fraud will not accept that their candidate lost fair and square.

Time to move on.......

Agree with you and I know that and you know that what you posted. Extremists are just idiots and a stain on our society. I saw the Battle flag and honestly cringed, as a history student, you know from our discussions how much that po's me. I am hopeful in the coming days that the adults in Washington will remove themselves from the proverbial sandbox, ignore the press and move forward as the leaders they were elected to be. I really want to believe that as I think it is the best path forward.

As I said to you a little boredom for the next 4 years may not be a bad thing. I will welcome a day that does not include nonstop droning on social media and the press and enjoy an actual nightly newscast. I guess we all can dream!

Like I have always said, regardless of your vote/support, you always want an incoming leader to be successful b/c after all he/she is representing your Country, so you want them to do a good job and be the best. It is not a hard concept to get behind.

TD

 

[damian]

here are some pictures of graffiti on buildings in Portland through the "peaceful demonstrations"...
I think all violent protestors should be prosecuted...

Those look "mostly peaceful"

 

[mikemiller1955]

Those look "mostly peaceful"

oooooh yea..."mostly peaceful"....

I'm sure the family members of the 1,000's of police injured would agree with you on that...

and if they don't...

how about the 2 officers that were ambushed and shot in their patrol car in the LA......
or the other 36 people that died through those peaceful demonstrations...

mostly peaceful...^&confuse

https://www.statesman.com/story/new...e-from-black-lives-matter-protests/113878088/

 

[Rutledge]

I agree with you and those of us who are expressing our revulsion on Wednesday's mob attacks are not giving a "pass" to the violent protestors over the summer. Some of us just believe that Wednesday's events were the most dangerous attack on our Democracy since our founding. I can say a lot more about who incited and encouraged this insurrection but its too political.
Just watch the videos and interviews with the participants of this attack. They threatened to hang the Vice President and take legislators hostage, they attacked the police...injured many and murdered one officer, they threatened our legislators and vandalized our seat of government. They spouted racist and anti-semitic slogans and brought the Confederate flag into our hallowed halls. And most egregious they tried to overturn a fair and legal election based on lies and conspiracy theories. There are those who no matter how many investigations prove there was no
massive fraud will not accept that their candidate lost fair and square.

Time to move on.......

Eh? Wasn't the American Civil War actually a tad more threatening?

 

[nysoldiers]

Eh? Wasn't the American Civil War actually a tad more threatening?

I didn't know this was a contest. Different times, different contexts and different motives......but I will be happy to edit my statement that "Wednesday's events were the most dangerous attack on our Democracy and country since the Civil War!
Still doesn't diminish the despicable acts of the mob that attacked our capital, our legislators and our Democracy.

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

Y'know that cat Jim Jordan? The loudmouth, ex wrestling coach? I saw him in a picture when all hell was breaking loose in the Capital and though I don't really care for the guy, I would be utterly pissed, angry and outraged if anything would have happened to him. Like him or not, he is an elected US Congressman and regardless of his party I respect him for that. I would not be able to stomach any harm to him or any of our elected leaders. Hell, I can barely stomach what has happened.

I just saw the video of the rioters chanting "Hang Mike Pence"....WHAT? I like that dude, even if he calls his wife "mother". Again, no matter what this was an attack on our Democracy! A domestic attack by our own sons and daughters. People died man, how worse can it get? They threatened to storm the capital and they did it. None of this is acceptable.

Shame on them. Shame on them all and shame on that dude who was caught on camera beating a Capital police officer with the American flag. By God, the more video that comes out the more chilling this insurrection is.

To believe they are calling elected officials, the media and bystanders and anyone else who does not agree with their mob mentality "traitors" is laughable. THEY are the traitors and it is my sincerest hope that they are prosecuted to fullest extent of the law.

No kid gloves here, no excuses and we the taxpayers are now paying to clean this mess up. Yup, we are talking millions in damage to our Capital, but the worst damage is the lives that were lost for absolutely no reason what so ever.

BASTA!

John from Texas

PS: Off the Pearl Harbor memorial mañana to pay my respects. I wanted to visit this sacred ground all my life. Men at the prime of their lives are entombed there...I have to visit them. They made the ultimate sacrifice for our country not too long ago and here we are with hooligans who have seemed to take that for granted.

 

[Terp152]

PS: Off the Pearl Harbor memorial mañana to pay my respects. I wanted to visit this sacred ground all my life. Men at the prime of their lives are entombed there...I have to visit them. They made the ultimate sacrifice for our country not too long ago and here we are with hooligans who have seemed to take that for granted.[/QUOTE]


John, may I suggest you visit the national cemetery at The Punch Bowl after visiting Peal Harbor/USS Arizona? Vets from all over the Pacific War buried there. Including one 18 yr old sailor from Kentucky, my adopted state, died Dec 7th on the Arizona. Enjoy your visit to HI. Chris

 

[Combat]

There are some folks buried in the Gettysburg National Cemetery with the date Dec. 7, 1941. I assume those are from Pearl Harbor.

 

[bradleyl30]

All,

Y'know that cat Jim Jordan? The loudmouth, ex wrestling coach? I saw him in a picture when all hell was breaking loose in the Capital and though I don't really care for the guy, I would be utterly pissed, angry and outraged if anything would have happened to him. Like him or not, he is an elected US Congressman and regardless of his party I respect him for that. I would not be able to stomach any harm to him or any of our elected leaders. Hell, I can barely stomach what has happened.

I just saw the video of the rioters chanting "Hang Mike Pence"....WHAT? I like that dude, even if he calls his wife "mother". Again, no matter what this was an attack on our Democracy! A domestic attack by our own sons and daughters. People died man, how worse can it get? They threatened to storm the capital and they did it. None of this is acceptable.

Shame on them. Shame on them all and shame on that dude who was caught on camera beating a Capital police officer with the American flag. By God, the more video that comes out the more chilling this insurrection is.

To believe they are calling elected officials, the media and bystanders and anyone else who does not agree with their mob mentality "traitors" is laughable. THEY are the traitors and it is my sincerest hope that they are prosecuted to fullest extent of the law.

No kid gloves here, no excuses and we the taxpayers are now paying to clean this mess up. Yup, we are talking millions in damage to our Capital, but the worst damage is the lives that were lost for absolutely no reason what so ever.

BASTA!

John from Texas

PS: Off the Pearl Harbor memorial mañana to pay my respects. I wanted to visit this sacred ground all my life. Men at the prime of their lives are entombed there...I have to visit them. They made the ultimate sacrifice for our country not too long ago and here we are with hooligans who have seemed to take that for granted.

I totally agree. I see Minority Whip Clyburn is now asking questions about whether he was specifically targeted. His official office is now largely ceremonial, in plain view and clearly marked with his name. They didn’t touch that.

His real office is not well known, not marked and deep in the bowels of the Capitol. The protesters went there directly and started antagonizing his staff in way that made it clear they were there on purpose, and not randomly. So more evidence that there was premeditation.

Very sad.

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

I just watched the video of the Capital police officer who was getting crushed. I had seen it before with his lip bleeding. However, this new video shows him crushed between two door with his gas mask on. A traitor...yes a traitor is seen violently smashing him in the face with his left hand repeatedly while he is screaming. He then tries to rip his gas mask off. I swear to god I hope they find that man because he was not trying to help him he was trying to beat him to death. The officer could not protect himself as his arms were crushed between the door. Basically, he head was an open target and that SOB took no mercy on him. Then the video shows the crowd yelling "heave-ho" to overrun the Capital police. Its a terrifying scene and I admit I welled up with tears watching that video and that officer who was helpless screaming for his life and on his last breathes. You are not patriot if this is how you roll.

The traitors identified are dropping like flies by loosing their jobs and getting arrested. I have read one comment from one them who is already bleeding the excuse of "thats not who I am". Well, it is who you are and if you are proud of taking part of an insurrection that costs lives, you better be ready to pay for it for the rest of your life. I also read the FBI has the power to put people on the no fly list if they are indeed considered a domestic terrorist or a "regular" terrorist (if you will) and ban you for life. In fact, the Airlines don't need the FBI permission to ban you if your conduct on their carrier violates their rules. Alaska Airlines already banned 14 people who decided to be unruly, not wear masks and harass the stewards a few days ago. So, I expect a lot of frequent flyer miles are getting ready to be unused for some them pretty soon.

This IS a "Sad Day in American History" and that day will go on and on until every last one of those hooligans is brought to justice. It will take a while, but when these knuckleheads are in court and the judge advises them that they will have a swift and speedy trial, I hope it is isn't and their costs to defend themselves will drain them. Hit them in the pocket book, I say...that'll get your attention. The irony of all this is that those who lose their jobs will probably file for unemployment. Oh...now you need pay your bills and you can't because of your misguided pride AND now you need Uncle Sam to dole you out. Well, get in line brother oh and you better have your mask on ya' idgit.

Gents, thank for the recommendations on Pearl Harbor. I got up a 3 AM this morning, took a walk and enjoyed the serenity of the lush hotel grounds. Never in a million years did I ever think that I would earned the privilege to travel like this for leisure. When I was a kid my relatives always used to say "vacations are for rich people" and the only vacation you get from the barrio is a trip to other side of town just to look at the nice houses. Well, I ain't rich and all those relatives still have not left the hood...but hey, their happy with that.

I miss you guys and can't wait for the Toy Soldier conventions to get going again.

John from Texas

 

[mikemiller1955]

sickening video...
lawless mob mentality at it's worst...
cowards by themselves now fueled by the numbers supporting them...
I hope he can help identify his attacker...
and they prosecute him to the full extent of the law...
send them all to Guantanamo Bay detention prison...

 

[bradleyl30]

Yes, those pictures are inflammatory.

Here’s what the Major Cities Police Chiefs association has published:

During that period (May through July 2020) , there were 8,700 protests nationwide; 574 were declared riots with violence and other criminal acts. The violence was limited to 7% of protests, the report said.

In most cases, the criminal acts were the work of individuals or small groups that infiltrated larger demonstrations, according to the organization.

More than 2,000 law enforcement officers were injured in the first weeks of protests over the summer following the police killing of George Floyd, according to a report released in October. (The only info I could find on the seriousness is another article stating 22 police were hospitalized due to direct conflict with protesters.)

2 deaths were reported, but at this time neither have been linked to the protesters. One may have been a murder using protesters blocks away as cover or a distraction, and the other is still being investigated.

What I couldn’t find was information on the seriousness of injuries.

When you look at Portland, a couple of interesting trends appear. Most of the damage and destruction happened after midnight and it was difficult to identify who was responsible.

What’s also interesting is that after an initial couple of weeks of protesting and some mild violence, it largely died down by June 7 and serious negotiations between the different sides were occurring and showing results. Up to that point just over 100 people were arrested.

On July 2, federal law enforcement arrives and conflict reignites on July 4th and continues to escalate as more unidentifiable federal law enforcement arrives until you start getting the Wall of Moms, Wall of Dads (with leaf blowers) and Wall of Vets turning out to protect / protest the federal response. After July 2 over 800 official arrests are made and many additional “snatch and grabs” which were hard to quantify since they seemed to ignore procedures.

So, 93% of 8700 were peaceful. While lots of inflammatory language was used, given the fact that there were often huge crowds of 60,000 in many protests we see that with millions of people on the street there were 2000 injuries of which 22 resulted in hospitalization.

Yes, there was a lot of arson and that’s one of the crimes we are seeing the most prosecution. Which I am happy about.

One thing is disturbing is that police deaths are up overall. The rise cannot be tied to the protesters, but the assumption is that when the police are stretched and less popular criminals are more aggressive. This includes a serious increase in blatant white supremacist actions including targeting police. That sucks, but doesn’t mean we should squash free speech. It means we need to deal with problems quickly and constructively which falls on both sides.

So yes, I think they were largely peaceful and that last week was much worse. I think curfews should be enforced and local government left to deal with their own issues. Portland and Chicago were definitely the worst, but most other areas were mostly peaceful when looked at as a whole. New York had the most protests, but the vast majority were peaceful.

I always find looking at the data interesting and enlightening.

I get that this isn’t a peer reviewed analysis, but it still adds some important context.

 

[Louis Badolato]

The FBI announced today that there are armed attacks being planned by white supremacist groups on all 50 state capitals commencing January 16th, that the domestic terrorists are far better armed and trained than foreign terrorists, and that, the armed white supremacist domestic terrorists have threatened to attack the capital if Congress or VP Pence and the cabinet remove Trump from office.

It has been reported that the FBI and the NYPD warned the Capital Police of the intent of white supremacist/white nationalist groups to turn Trump's January 6th protest into an armed attack, and that the FBI intervened and prevented approximately a dozen of the leaders of the planned attack from getting to Washington, D.C., preventing the attack on the Capital from being as violent and well-coordinated as was originally intended/planned.

Get ready for the type of guerrilla style Civil War that Robert E. Lee honorably acted to avoid at Appomattax Courthouse on April 9, 1865.

 

[mikemiller1955]

Louis...

I hope that's baseless...
if you have any links...
please share them...