Anyone else notice… (1 Viewer)

[ecuriel]

Mitch,
I do not think we are talking about arbitary bans. Rob gives a good example of what I am referring to. I am pretty sure that Peter and the Mods have a pretty good idea which members are the ones most likely to disrupt threads and in which areas they are most likely to do so. I think most K&C fans who have a "usual suspect" would probably be thinking about the same person. It is irritating for forum members and I am sure the Mods would appreciate less friction.
Regards
Brett

I agree. I think sometimes the K&C section becomes a "venting outlet" for some people. What is the point? I'm all for sharing insight about a manufacturers product, but when someone tries to insult my intelligence with the:

"Comparing Beetles to Ferrari", "Buy what you can afford","If you can't see the quality", "the best blah, blah, blah in the toy soldier world" you startng thinking some don't have a clue the lives and experiences people have on this forum. I have had the luxury of meeting many treefroggers at the shows and the idea that some don't buy one manufacurer over the other because of price is ridiculous. As I get older, a have a tune that rings in my head "it just doesn't matter". I'm just hoping that the forum is a place for us to become more knowledgable about something we enjoy.

 

[Currahee Chris]

I think it would be interesting to see who people think are the usual suspect but does make me think were living in Germany in 1939 :wink2: think about it :wink2:

Good point mate though perhaps to an extreme. Well, judging by the responses, sounds like people have attempted to reach out. I always believe in being direct, if you have an issue, open and up and discuss, sounds like people have but it's falling on deaf ears. Unfortunately, there may be no other solution available except banishment..........:redface2:

 

[The Military Workshop]

Uksubs,
Thought about it and it is nothing like Germany in 1939.

We are talking about a person or persons who are frequently negative and often ruin the enjoyment of threads for fans of K&C when they are clearly not fans. You can see an example in the FL thread I just responded to (I rarely post there but the post I replied to was an example of what Rob was talking about).

Hopefully those reading this thread are taking up my suggestion to write to TF if they have concerns about anybody who might be their "usual suspect".

Regards
Brett

 

[Saber]

I'm just waiting for someone to do a release of toy soldier collectors in dynamic "arguing poses"...or pole vaulting over mouse droppings.:rolleyes2: Maybe they could be hunched over a table at the Berghof measuring track end connector dimensions or shovel head widths?

For myself I have pieces from Britains, K&C, FL, Figarti, Conte, Tradition and a few others I can't even recollect at the moment. I enjoy them all for what they are...a fun hobby! It might help if members tried to mind their wording a bit...saying "I think I'll pass on that Panzer III as I am looking for one with a little more detail or a differant paint scheme" sounds a lot better than "I'm not wasting my money on something with such poor detail when (fill in the blank) makes a far superior product for the money". Inserting little jibes that insult someone elses decision to buy or not buy a product is offensive and unneccesary. If someone is excited about a new vehicle is it really neccesary for some individual to comment on how cleary it's a piece of s@!*t because everyone knows that Tiger 451 was missing it's right front fendor at the battle of Schloppenhiem? While the member posting the comment may not intend for it to sound that way that's the way some of these "constructive criticism" post come off. It's supposed to be fun for heavens sake!

 

[Mitch]

I have to say that I am totally against anyone being banned for saying what they feel about products on an open forum.

things like that are what the forum is about. I don't think and I have said some things which are against the fiorum rules and been taken to task for those comments no problem.

What irks me is that we are talking about insults at toys!!!!! mines nicer than yours or, mine has less mistakes its childish and stupid but, does it deserve a ban??? Not so sure.

I also speak my mind and what I think at the moment the post may come through. Now, that might annoy some or others may take umbridge but, thats the way it is. I could list a host of comments posted by people now wanting action that should have required a sanction but did not

I include myself in this but, everyone should look at how they respond to people on here if they want this apparent urgently revised behaviour code.

I think there is only one person on this site who speaks to people with genuine courtesy IMO the rest are as equal of a ban as anyone else. The mods are gonna get some extra work as everyone wanting ''fun'' will now be reporting threads as a right. I think this will make the forum worse than better
Mitch

 

[ecuriel]

I have to say that I am totally against anyone being banned for saying what they feel about products on an open forum.

things like that are what the forum is about. I don't think and I have said some things which are against the fiorum rules and been taken to task for those comments no problem.

What irks me is that we are talking about insults at toys!!!!! mines nicer than yours or, mine has less mistakes its childish and stupid but, does it deserve a ban??? Not so sure.

I also speak my mind and what I think at the moment the post may come through. Now, that might annoy some or others may take umbridge but, thats the way it is. I could list a host of comments posted by people now wanting action that should have required a sanction but did not

I include myself in this but, everyone should look at how they respond to people on here if they want this apparent urgently revised behaviour code.

I think there is only one person on this site who speaks to people with genuine courtesy IMO the rest are as equal of a ban as anyone else. The mods are gonna get some extra work as everyone wanting ''fun'' will now be reporting threads as a right. I think this will make the forum worse than better
Mitch

Although this may be considered an open forum, the reality is that Peter and Shanon put a lot of energy to create an environment where people with common interest can enjoy themselves. They do the same in Chicago with the dinner and lunches that they host. They have every right to foster an environment that they can be proud of and less maintanance. I don't believe that there intention was to allow the forum to be a free for all.

 

[Peter Reuss]

Although this may considered an open forum, the reality is that Peter and Shanon put a lot of energy to create an environment where people with common interest can enjoy themselves. They do the same in Chicago with the dinner and lunches that they host. They have every right to foster an environment that they can be proud of and less maintanance. I don't believe that there intention was to allow the forum to be a free for all.

Spot on, Ed.

We have worked hard to create a place where people can share their passion for toy soldiers. You may note that we have more expectations of those posting than other forums (i.e. we expect a certian level of civility). We do that for good reason. We want this forum to be a place where people can be comfortable posting their views on the hobby without wondering if someone is going to smack them down for it.

We've noticed that things have grown much more contentious lately, so we're working to deal with that. The anxiety of a few will not be allowed to overwhelm a community what has taken years to create.

If people prefer a forum that has complete 'free speech,' there are options out there that are not moderated and might serve you better.

 

[Saber]

there may be no other solution available except banishment..........:redface2:

Not the dreaded denial of fire and water within 500 miles of Rome!:wink2:^&grin

 

[Spitfrnd]

Interesting timing on this post...

For the past week the mods have been discussing ways to help the forum become less acrimonious and more civil. There are only a few of the subforums that contain 99% of the sniping, so we're developing a plan to walk the line between allowing constructive criticism and allowing bitterness and angst.

One challenge is that many threads end up with the same people saying the same things and fighting over them. If we end up plowing the same field (and hijacking threads to do it), the mods may 'clean things up' to allow for a freer flow of conversation for all, not just a few.

We're still developing our plan of action (things like this don't happen overnight, they take careful thought). We'll keep you posted.

One of the continuing problems in this approach is determining what are the same things and what is a fight? The post that started this thread is certainly one of the former and could be seen as encouraging a hostile response, given that less than restrained rhetoric and less than fair characterizations included. Many responses so far in this thread may be seen the same way. I suppose it is like the old line "it is not what you know but who you know". I find myself agreeing with Mitch but the tendency for overreaction to simple differences of opinion or responses to obvious provocative slights is a certainly part of the same field. Let's hope the freer flow does not simply mean a flow that fits any particular agenda.

BTW, Chris, as for calling people out, just who and what did you have in mind mate?

 

[ecuriel]

One of the continuing problems in this approach is determining what are the same things and what is a fight? The post that started this thread is certainly one of the former and could be seen as encouraging a hostile response, given that less than restrained rhetoric and less than fair characterizations included. Many responses so far in this thread may be seen the same way. I suppose it is like the old line "it is not what you know but who you know". I find myself agreeing with Mitch but the tendency for overreaction to simple differences of opinion or responses to obvious provocative slights is a certainly part of the same field. Let's hope the freer flow does not simply mean a flow that fits any particular agenda.

BTW, Chris, as for calling people out, just who and what did you have in mind mate?

The agenda should be enjoy the hobby.

 

[Currahee Chris]

BTW, Chris, as for calling people out, just who and what did you have in mind mate?

I certainly don't mean it in the way I think you mean it. All I was getting as it that it seems like I hear a lot of people making statements to the effect of " the usual suspects", " if two or three people would change their attitudes, position of posts, etc". It just seems to me that statements like that may have everyone scratching their heads " Hey, did I say something wrong, is it me??" etc. I have found in life, and my life expereinces aren't as extensive as yours, sometimes people just don't get subtle hints and need someone to directly make the point- I am guilty of that- sometimes I think that we loose the face to face discussion that is ciritical to human communication.

As to who- I don't keep a list of "usual suspect"- I challenge anyone on this forum to find where I have made statements to that effect. If I have an issue with someone, I talk to them via pm or just slap them on the ignore list and drive on.

 

[Peter Reuss]

Let's hope the freer flow does not simply mean a flow that fits any particular agenda.

No matter how we moderate, we will be accused by someone of having an agenda. Conspiracy theories abound!

Moderation is an art, not a science. Yes, some interpretation will go into things. If someone decides that they can't trust the mods to be impartial, there's nothing that will ever be said to convince them otherwise.

 

[lancer]

The agenda should be enjoy the hobby.

Here, Here! The point of it all! -- Al

 

[Spitfrnd]

I certainly don't mean it in the way I think you mean it. All I was getting as it that it seems like I hear a lot of people making statements to the effect of " the usual suspects", " if two or three people would change their attitudes, position of posts, etc". It just seems to me that statements like that may have everyone scratching their heads " Hey, did I say something wrong, is it me??" etc. I have found in life, and my life expereinces aren't as extensive as yours, sometimes people just don't get subtle hints and need someone to directly make the point- I am guilty of that- sometimes I think that we loose the face to face discussion that is ciritical to human communication.

As to who- I don't keep a list of "usual suspect"- I challenge anyone on this forum to find where I have made statements to that effect. If I have an issue with someone, I talk to them via pm or just slap them on the ignore list and drive on.

Thank you Chris, as you say, it is more constructive to be direct. Sometimes the thought gets lost in the condensed versions.:smile2::rolleyes2:

 

[Rob]

Just to clear up a point here, when I started this thread down in the basement there was absolutely no intention of starting any argument whatever, the whole point was to bemoan those of our friends who for whatever reason no longer post as often .

Rob

 

[MCKENNA77]

Ok, lets just hash this out the old fashion way. We'll have Pete and Shannon construct an Octagon Ring at the Chicago Show this year. If you've got a beef with a fellow collector, lace em up and settle the dispute.

That might get some people to shut their mouths and their keyboards.

The first rule about toy soldier fight club is that you do not talk about toy soldier fight club.

Keep it Silly

 

[Rob]

Am sorry to labour the point Bill, but what is behind most of the trouble here are not differences of opinion, they are caused by someone who comes on here and pushes their obvious agenda for another company with the intent of causing problems and ill feeling on this part of the forum, to call these posts differences of opinion is to water them down. They are quite deliberate acts designed to rile people up.

Rob

One of the continuing problems in this approach is determining what are the same things and what is a fight? The post that started this thread is certainly one of the former and could be seen as encouraging a hostile response, given that less than restrained rhetoric and less than fair characterizations included. Many responses so far in this thread may be seen the same way. I suppose it is like the old line "it is not what you know but who you know". I find myself agreeing with Mitch but the tendency for overreaction to simple differences of opinion or responses to obvious provocative slights is a certainly part of the same field. Let's hope the freer flow does not simply mean a flow that fits any particular agenda.

BTW, Chris, as for calling people out, just who and what did you have in mind mate?

 

[debrito]

Tfrogers, you should spend more time having SEX stead of buying toys soldiers...is better for the nerves.

 

[Rob]

Tfrogers, you should spend more time having SEX stead of buying toys soldiers...is better for the nerves.

^&grin

And you don't have to wait until the 1st of the month!!{eek3}^&grin:wink2:

Rob

 

[joesgis]

Peter,
I'm sorry to hear you are struggling with this when to the forum members the answer seems so obvious, surely you cannot expect the same people with the same problems to continue on each K&C thread and get a different result? The common factor has to change, if that doesn't get the desired results change it again. there are a few who simply cannot help themselves and in the forum as in life you do them no favors by somehow mitigating bad behavior. This is not about informative questions and questioning, it's about the obvious agenda and distructiveness of a very, very few.

I completely agree Ray. I really dislike it when an entire group has to suffer because of the deviancy of a few....it's like a coach making the whole team run a lap because one person was out of line.