Baseball 2014 (3 Viewers)

[lancer]

The Astros, of all teams, are lighting up CC Sabathia. Astros currently lead 6-0 after 2 and they are hitting him hard with a couple of dingers. -- Al

 

[Warrior]

The Astros, of all teams, are lighting up CC Sabathia. Astros currently lead 6-0 after 2 and they are hitting him hard with a couple of dingers. -- Al

All he needs to do is gain back the 250 pounds he lost and he'll be back to his old self, minus the pitching talent.

This tomato can is under contract for three more years, are you kidding me?

He's got two pitches going for him tonight; balls and home runs.

Brilliant observation by Kay; "If Roberts can stay healthy, he'll be a productive second baseman."

Yeah and if your Aunt had a beard, she'd be your Uncle.

 

[Panzer ace]

All he needs to do is gain back the 250 pounds he lost and he'll be back to his old self, minus the pitching talent.

This tomato can is under contract for three more years, are you kidding me?

He's got two pitches going for him tonight; balls and home runs.

Brilliant observation by Kay; "If Roberts can stay healthy, he'll be a productive second baseman."

Yeah and if your Aunt had a beard, she'd be your Uncle.

and how much do they owe him over those three years? No matter what the number is all I can say is ouch.

 

[Warrior]

and how much do they owe him over those three years?

If it's anything more than $42.00, they're getting screwed.

But hey, they won that one world series with him as their ace, so there you go..................

 

[Panzer ace]

If it's anything more than $42.00, they're getting screwed.

But hey, they won that one world series with him as their ace, so there you go..................

This is just as bad:

Mark Buehrle
14 year career average: 14-11
2013: 12-10
2014 Salary: $19,000,000

 

[jazzeum]

Michael Kay is the worst. A has been who never was.

 

[lancer]

This is just as bad:

Mark Buehrle
14 year career average: 14-11
2013: 12-10
2014 Salary: $19,000,000

When I was a youngster, 14-11 or 12-10 gets you a #3 or #4 on a staff of 4. Nowadays it's a #2 with $19 million. Then again, when I was a youngster, pitchers were expected to go 8-9 innings, not the 5-6 of today. Crud, where are the Marichal's and the Gibson's when you need them? Can you imagine what those guys would be worth in today's market? We're talking Bill Gates numbers here.:wink2: -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

When we were youngsters a lot more people played baseball and the owners kept the players down. Well, today there are less people playing baseball -- scarcity -- and the players got together and organized a union. That's why players are better paid today.

 

[Warrior]

CC Sabathia should change his name to BP...................what a tomato can.

He's your opening day starter?

Good Lord.

A lot of positives to take from that loss; let's see.....

Jeter didn't break anything.


That's all I've got.

 

[Panzer ace]

CC Sabathia should change his name to BP...................what a tomato can.

He's your opening day starter?

Good Lord.

A lot of positives to take from that loss; let's see.....

Jeter didn't break anything.


That's all I've got.

and A-Rod didn't play.

That is my only addition.

 

[Warrior]

I know it's only one game and all, but that said, the Yankees look like one of those 30 and over softball teams that play in a beer league.

I remember when I played in the Boston Park League and across the field down in the corner there was a softball field and those 30 and over wrecking balls would be out there waddling around, chasing fly balls, pulling hamstrings, whipping the ball over the diamond for error after error and drinking beers in between innings.

When I think back to that and me standing in the outfield looking at them and LMFAO, I think 2014 MFY's...........................that said, watch them go 161-1.

 

[jazzeum]

Yes, it's only one game but CC is doing the same thing he did last year and Texeira looked pretty bad in spring training. They need to get younger but they're between a rock and a hard place: attendance and ratings on YES were down last year. They've sold a big chunk of YES to Fox who, as an investor, expects a good rate of return. If they go younger, they may stink for awhile and ratings and attendance will go down. As Wall Street only looks at the short term, they could take a financial hit.

 

[lancer]

My bi-monthly rant about the state of today's starting pitching vs 'the good ole' days' got me to thinking about the various pitchers I have seen since I became a fan. I went back and studied starters since 1960 to see how things stacked up, today vs yesterday. I picked 1960 because that's about when I became a fan so it seemed a good place to start. I decided to pick 3 criteria just to see how pitchers stacked up on a brief basis. I picked ERA, innings pitched average over a 162 game season, and wins averaged over a 162 game season. The caveat here is this is not a comprehensive list. I went off my memory of big name pitchers and pitchers with long careers. It is possible I missed someone but I think I got most of the big ones. Since 1960, ONE pitcher has averaged as many as 18 wins per 162 game season, Juan Marichal @ 18-10. Ten pitchers have averaged 17 wins: Ford and Martinez (Pedro) went 17-8; Johnson (Randy), Clemens, Halladay, and Guidry all averaged a 17-9 record; Mussina, Pettitte, and Palmer went 17-10, and Bob Gibson averaged a 17-12 record. Everyone else in that period fell below the 17 win mark. Some of the best ever, like Seaver, Maddux, and Koufax "only" reached 16 wins on average.
Since 1960, in terms of ERA, only 8 pitchers were under 3.00. They were Ford @ 2.75, Koufax @ 2.76, Palmer @ 2.86, Seaver @ 2.86, Marichal @ 2.89, Gibson @ 2.91, Martinez @ 2.93, and Drysdale @ 2.95. Once again, many big names you will remember, like Perry, Carlton, Ryan, Maddux, Glavine, Jenkins, Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, all had ERA's north of 3.00.
Finally I came to innings averaged per 162 game season, using 240 as the magic number. 8 pitchers reached this number of innings per season: Gibson @ 262, Marichal @ 257, Seaver @ 250, Palmer @ 249, Perry @ 248, Carlton @ 245, Jenkins @ 243, and Morris @ 242.
Make of it what you will. Only 3 pitchers scored in the top of all 3 categories, Marichal, Gibson, and Palmer. Other greats, like Seaver, Martinez, and Ford, all placed high in 2 of the 3 categories. Everyone else scored high in 1 category. I realize this is strictly a numbers game (and I may have missed someone) and doesn't take in the intangibles such as post-season but it does give a good idea of the top pitchers of the last 50+ seasons. And before the Koufax lovers all jump on me, his averages of a 16-8 won/loss record, and 222 innings pitched per average 162 game season, placed him out of the top numbers in 2 of the 3 categories. Remember, these were just my arbitrary criteria for ranking pitchers and it isn't scientific, official, or even correct. It's just numbers.
Anyone care to add anyone? I can check the numbers for arguments sake. -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

If you're saying that pitchers were better then than now, I agree, as the talent pool has been watered down.

I'm not going to go with stats but since I became a fan in 1962, the best pitchers that I saw and this is not necessarily over a career but dominant in their time (pre 1990) were Gibson, Koufax, Drysdale, Marechal and Seaver. Guidry was dominant in 1978 and was a joy to watch as was Gooden in his early years. We were blessed in NY to have both.

Post 1990, the only three that impressed me were Pedro, Randy Johnson and Maddux. I discount Clemens because of his steroid use and Glavine was a good pitcher but not in the class of the others.

I am not a big Nolan Ryan fan; he has some great accomplishments but basically a .500 pitcher.

 

[lancer]

If you're saying that pitchers were better then than now, I agree, as the talent pool has been watered down.

I'm not going to go with stats but since I became a fan in 1962, the best pitchers that I saw and this is not necessarily over a career but dominant in their time (pre 1990) were Gibson, Koufax, Drysdale, Marechal and Seaver. Guidry was dominant in 1978 and was a joy to watch as was Gooden in his early years. We were blessed in NY to have both.

Post 1990, the only three that impressed me were Pedro, Randy Johnson and Maddux. I discount Clemens because of his steroid use and Glavine was a good pitcher but not in the class of the others.

I am not a big Nolan Ryan fan; he has some great accomplishments but basically a .500 pitcher.

It is really tough to compare who is best from one decade to another, especially when dealing with memories and such. Numbers are a place to start but obviously aren't the whole story. Each of these guys were dominant at certain periods, some longer than others. Guidry in '78 was as good as anyone has been since 1960, for that one year. He had other good years but not as many as Gibson, Marichal, Seaver, etc. Koufax had a 5 year stretch of unequaled dominance in the 60's, yet Gibson and Marichal won more games for a longer period in the 60's. In fact, Marichal led MLB with the most wins in the 60's, but Gibson and Koufax are considered the better pitchers. So much is subjective which is why numbers are so heavily relied upon. It is maybe a little unfair to compare today's pitchers with those from the 60's and 70's because of the extinction of the 8-9 inning starter. Because of the way today's game is played, the current pitchers will not rack up the numbers in wins and innings pitched that the boys from yesteryear did, but that is also true comparing the pitchers from the early 20th century to the post 1960 game in general. The numbers are just a fun exercise in comparison.
Ryan was an unusual example of a pitcher who dominated but could never quite translate it to wins. He was barely above .500 for his extremely long career. His 162 game average record was 14-13. Gooden was one of the myriad of pitchers just outside of the top numbers with a 16-9 average, middling ERA and IP. -- Al

 

[Warrior]

Yes, it's only one game but CC is doing the same thing he did last year and Texeira looked pretty bad in spring training. They need to get younger but they're between a rock and a hard place: attendance and ratings on YES were down last year. They've sold a big chunk of YES to Fox who, as an investor, expects a good rate of return. If they go younger, they may stink for awhile and ratings and attendance will go down. As Wall Street only looks at the short term, they could take a financial hit.

A lot of great points Brad. Winning breeds arrogance, MFY fans expect to compete for and win a world series every year, so you are 100% correct, they can't tank for a couple of years as the fans won't stand for it. Also, as you pointed out, neither will Wall Street or their investors.

The Red Sox were in the same position after the 2004 and 2007 WS titles, the fans expected it every year, so ownership kept bringing in high priced talent, then the bottom fell out in 2012.

Ownership was nervous going into 2013, they were offering half priced day tickets, free food and beverages, a lot of other fan perks to keep fans coming as attendance dropped quite a bit in 2012. By unloading Beckett, Crawford and Gonzalez, ownership asked fans to be patient as they were going with a youth movement, then 2013 came along totally unexpectedly and they won a WS.

As far as I'm concerned, they have a pass for a few years, this ownership has brought us three WS titles in ten years, so they've earned it; the MFY's won one title in those ten years, so their fans do not have the same mindset as Sox fans do.............

 

[Warrior]

Sox win 6-2, my new favorite Oriole Cruz hits another home run, he's on pace for 162.

Awesome.

The O's aren't going 162-0 afterall, Sox aren't going 0-162; the Yankees might as they fall again to the AAAstros, 3-1.

All is right in the baseball world.

 

[Panzer ace]

Sox win 6-2, my new favorite Oriole Cruz hits another home run, he's on pace for 162.

Awesome.

The O's aren't going 162-0 afterall, Sox aren't going 0-162; the Yankees might as they fall again to the AAAstros, 3-1.

All is right in the baseball world.

As everyone on here knows I am a Giants fan, but I have to say AL East matchups are the best games to watch.

On the Giants front, it was great to see Hudson throw a shutout today, let’s see what Lincecum does tomorrow.

 

[Warrior]

As everyone on here knows I am a Giants fan, but I have to say AL East matchups are the best games to watch.

More so this year than any prior to, the games vs the divisional opponents are going to be mini wars.

I've got tickets this year to three Yankees games, two Rays games, four Orioles games (two of which are up on the green monster so I can heckle Cruz....:wink2 and one Blue Jays game.

All I ask to be entertained, this team has built up so much good will the past ten years it boggles my mind.

Three WS titles in ten years.

I think about my poor grandfather and my uncle, both of whom were huge Red Sox fans. I remember after the Red Sox blew game 7 in the 2003 ALCS to Aaron @#$%^&* Boone and the Yankees, I got a call the next night from my uncle who nearly blew a gasket going off over it. Neither of them ever saw them win a WS title and I've seen three, makes me feel guilty in a way................

 

[Warrior]

Hoping to see this after the game tonight;
http://www.baltimorenewsjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Orioles-Lose.jpg