Check out NEW Bulge stuff! (3 Viewers)

Rob said:
Yes indeed mate,that artillery piece looks so cool as do all the other stuff.I don't know how i'm going to afford all this and the RAF stuff,but i'll find a way!;)

So good to have some artillery from K&C:)

Rob
Click to expand...

So good to have some artillery from K&C

I totally agreed.
 
I think the discussion of paint patterns on german winter vehicles
has been interesting and informative.
Frankly, I use most of the winter K&C winter vehicles for my Battle of Stalingrad displays as well as the German/Russian front of 1943, prior to the battle of Kursk.
I generally check on which German vehicles were available at that time.
I am sure there are some mistakes but i would remind everyone that toy soldier collecting is an art and not a science.
Harvey
PS. To The Gates Of Stalingrad by David Glantz is an excellent source of information on this period of time.
 
h.hammer said:
I think the discussion of paint patterns on german winter vehicles
has been interesting and informative.
Frankly, I use most of the winter K&C winter vehicles for my Battle of Stalingrad displays as well as the German/Russian front of 1943, prior to the battle of Kursk.
I generally check on which German vehicles were available at that time.
I am sure there are some mistakes but i would remind everyone that toy soldier collecting is an art and not a science.
Harvey
PS. To The Gates Of Stalingrad by David Glantz is an excellent source of information on this period of time.
Click to expand...

Unless it is a major error, like the AFV not having been in production at the time of the battle, I agree that minor variances are to be ignored. :)

Terry
 
Hi Guys,

One of our friends was disputing the accuracy of our new German winter vehicles. He may be right, or he may be wrong, he seems to have incredible access to all kinds of late war German documents. As several other posters have written actual German records at that late stage of the war could also be inaccurate and anyone who has ever been in the military knows there are always exceptions to any rules and regulations, especially when it comes to painting vehicles. So, none of us including our expert can ever positively, definitely state that every single vehicle corresponded with the instructions issued by the German staff. When it came to the Battle of the Bulge Hitler and his generals scraped together all kinds of vehicles from all kinds of sources...new and old...to form his attacking force...so there!

Love and kisses,
Andy C. in Chicago
 
Thanks for the link Rob! The forthcoming Bulge sets look fantastic! :D That halftrack really looks nice, and the three seated figures look to be very well done and round-out "the story" quite effectively indeed. I don't know if I need another radioman, but the newest one may be the best yet. These latest Bulge previews, along w/ the Germans shown in this month's dispatches, are particularly eye-popping. I have several items from the Bulge line, but I think this "latest crop" may have the best figures and vehicles yet. It's hard to put it into words, but the figures really "pop", but at the same time possess a certain realistic subtlety. Or perhaps more succinctly, they reflect improvements even though most preceeding K & C Bulge offerings were A to A+ level already, IMHO.

Aside from the Cross & the Crescent line, the Bulge line is my favorite. I anxiously await Andy's annual Bulge additions like a kid waiting for the Sears Christmas catalog. Wonderful stuff; helps keep the kid in me alive! :)
 
tullock said:
Nice talking to you.I'm off to bed now as it's nearly midnight over here.
Jeff
Click to expand...

You guys are great. There is no doubt you know your stuff and some-one like me who would not know Feldgrau from oak leaf cammo if it bit him on the ..... can educate himself just by perusing you gentlemen's posts.
Thanks very much.
 
Well this thread has certainly ignited a debate!.Speaking only for myself i love all the forthcoming Bulge stuff,none of us can speak with 100% certainty about what was there,the radio truck is such a good model it would be daft not to have this in my collection because there is a small chance it wasn't there in Grey.Collecting these things is after all a hobby that gives us a great pleasure,again speaking for myself theres no inspector that comes round armed with an armful of Wehrmacht papers pointing out problems in my collection!.

All opinions are of course equally valid and appreciated,however at some point one has to draw a line,and i think both the Radio truck and Jagdpanzer are just too good to miss.

Rob
 
King & Country said:
Hi Guys,

One of our friends was disputing the accuracy of our new German winter vehicles. He may be right, or he may be wrong, he seems to have incredible access to all kinds of late war German documents. As several other posters have written actual German records at that late stage of the war could also be inaccurate and anyone who has ever been in the military knows there are always exceptions to any rules and regulations, especially when it comes to painting vehicles. So, none of us including our expert can ever positively, definitely state that every single vehicle corresponded with the instructions issued by the German staff. When it came to the Battle of the Bulge Hitler and his generals scraped together all kinds of vehicles from all kinds of sources...new and old...to form his attacking force...so there!

Love and kisses,
Andy C. in Chicago
Click to expand...

Thanks for these releases Andy,superb stuff.Have been wanting some US Artillery and here it is,love the halftrack too.

joesgis said:
Thanks for the link Rob! The forthcoming Bulge sets look fantastic! :D That halftrack really looks nice, and the three seated figures look to be very well done and round-out "the story" quite effectively indeed. I don't know if I need another radioman, but the newest one may be the best yet. These latest Bulge previews, along w/ the Germans shown in this month's dispatches, are particularly eye-popping. I have several items from the Bulge line, but I think this "latest crop" may have the best figures and vehicles yet. It's hard to put it into words, but the figures really "pop", but at the same time possess a certain realistic subtlety. Or perhaps more succinctly, they reflect improvements even though most preceeding K & C Bulge offerings were A to A+ level already, IMHO.

Aside from the Cross & the Crescent line, the Bulge line is my favorite. I anxiously await Andy's annual Bulge additions like a kid waiting for the Sears Christmas catalog. Wonderful stuff; helps keep the kid in me alive! :)
Click to expand...

No problem Joe,couldn't agree more.For me the Bulge is one of the three release highlights of the year along with D Day and Arnhem,but better make that four now..the RAF are coming!;)

Rob
 
Forlonhoper said

Tullock,you can quote from archives all day long does not make the info contained within the archives accurate,on the other hand if the archival info makes you happy then good for you ,but i have been in the history game too long to just rely on archives for accuracy,especially late war german archives.I am the johnny on the spot type of historian,flaws an all,so unless you were there on the spot ,we should remain open minded to all possibilities however unlikely they may seem,we cannot seriously believe that as germany disintegrated people remained fully informed of the volume of paint being used throughout the reich and what colours were being applied to AFVs and softskins,the high command could not have known the actual number of men at arms,nevermind the actual number of vehicles available in such a fluid situation as a collapse of a system,so quoting military figures of the time as accurate is frankly misguided and clearly misrepresents the truer picture of the time.
Click to expand...

The Germans,in WW2, kept the most intricate,up to date records throughout the conflict (Meldung).Every day Divisional sub units forwarded data to Div HQs.Div HQs forwarded this to Corps.They,in turn to Army, etc etc.These records were highly accurate,detailing troops,vehicles,weapons,food supplies,fuel supplies,stores,spares etc.I have copies of all these documents.Literally hundreds of thousands of them.This system only broke down in the last two or three weeks of the war.The data contained in them has been verified by Veterans memoirs,Allied interrogations and captures,German railway delivery charts,factory output and delivery charts and the very important PANZER LAGE Army group charts.
To give an example of how the accurate the charts are lets take a look at 2nd Panzer Div losses in the Celles battles in the Ardennes.We have the 2nd Panzer's 10th December Meldung which gives us a comprehensive breakdown of every Divisional sub unit and their organisation and strength.After the battle we have a fresh Meldung which cites all the losses.Luckily the Americans counted the 2nd Panzer losses around Celles and it matches exactly vehicle for vehicle with what the Germans had recorded.This Allied/Axis coordination of losses happened hundreds of times in the latter stages of the war.Besides the Meldung there are literally tens of thousands of delivery charts detailing supplies to every German unit in every theatre of war.These charts detail what specific supplies left the factories,where and when they were loaded onto trains.Length of journey.Time of arrival at theatre.Losses during transit and finally delivery to Division.I have charts that run into May 1945.
I too am 'hands on' having interviewed literally thousands of German veterans for the many publications that I have written.I have visited all the major Armour museums in the world including Bovington UK,Aberdeen USA and the massive Kubinka Museum in Russia and have done extensive research there.Some of my more illuminating discussions I have had were with the Modern Panzer Lehr Divisions camouflage Officers when I was invited to give a talk on Germany's strengths during the Ardennes offensive 4 years ago.
So your quote........"the high command could not have known the actual number of men at arms,nevermind the actual number of vehicles available in such a fluid situation as a collapse of a system,so quoting military figures of the time as accurate is frankly misguided and clearly misrepresents the truer picture of the time." ........becomes a little reckless and somewhat 'misguided' in itself.
You will have to let me know what you have published in this field and we can compare our work.I have contributed to Major Mike Reynold's superb SS armour series ( a world best seller),to numerous Osprey campaign books, to the recent 'Zitadelle' (Kursk) publication and the excellent 'Duel in the Mist' book which concentrates on Peiper's battlegroup in the Ardennes,even detailing individual tank camouflage and highlighting which particular factory this was applied in.Of course this is besides the 20 or so of my own publications detailing German Divisional strengths in the latter years of the war.Just Google in J Dugdale Panzer Divisions and you should recieve hundreds of replies.
Jeff
 
With regards to the quality of K & C products I have no gripe.They are superbly sculpted and painted.It is the sloppy and somewhat generic research that often irritates me.Steering away from the Bulge for a moment,take the Confedrates.Beautiful figures,badly researched.If the designers at K & C had had the forethought to study any of the hundreds of photos of Confederate dead on various battlefields they would have noticed a peculier thing.No torn or ragged clothing.No patches.No mismatched uniforms.A swift glance at the numerous Confederates shown in the Gettysburg series of photos shows them all wearing neat,evenly coloured Richmond Depot clothing with no patches whatsoever.The only mismatching seems to be the buttons on the jackets (some are brass,others wood).The same is true of the Antietam series,the Wilderness series and the Petersburg and Richmond series of photos.The ragged,ill-clothed K & C Rebs are relegated to minor far west skirmishes where uniforms were not the norm and not to the more well known battles further East.
Jeff
 
tullock said:
Forlonhoper said



The Germans,in WW2, kept the most intricate,up to date records throughout the conflict (Meldung).Every day Divisional sub units forwarded data to Div HQs.Div HQs forwarded this to Corps.They,in turn to Army, etc etc.These records were highly accurate,detailing troops,vehicles,weapons,food supplies,fuel supplies,stores,spares etc.I have copies of all these documents.Literally hundreds of thousands of them.This system only broke down in the last two or three weeks of the war.The data contained in them has been verified by Veterans memoirs,Allied interrogations and captures,German railway delivery charts,factory output and delivery charts and the very important PANZER LAGE Army group charts.
To give an example of how the accurate the charts are lets take a look at 2nd Panzer Div losses in the Celles battles in the Ardennes.We have the 2nd Panzer's 10th December Meldung which gives us a comprehensive breakdown of every Divisional sub unit and their organisation and strength.After the battle we have a fresh Meldung which cites all the losses.Luckily the Americans counted the 2nd Panzer losses around Celles and it matches exactly vehicle for vehicle with what the Germans had recorded.This Allied/Axis coordination of losses happened hundreds of times in the latter stages of the war.Besides the Meldung there are literally tens of thousands of delivery charts detailing supplies to every German unit in every theatre of war.These charts detail what specific supplies left the factories,where and when they were loaded onto trains.Length of journey.Time of arrival at theatre.Losses during transit and finally delivery to Division.I have charts that run into May 1945.
I too am 'hands on' having interviewed literally thousands of German veterans for the many publications that I have written.I have visited all the major Armour museums in the world including Bovington UK,Aberdeen USA and the massive Kubinka Museum in Russia and have done extensive research there.Some of my more illuminating discussions I have had were with the Modern Panzer Lehr Divisions camouflage Officers when I was invited to give a talk on Germany's strengths during the Ardennes offensive 4 years ago.
So your quote........"the high command could not have known the actual number of men at arms,nevermind the actual number of vehicles available in such a fluid situation as a collapse of a system,so quoting military figures of the time as accurate is frankly misguided and clearly misrepresents the truer picture of the time." ........becomes a little reckless and somewhat 'misguided' in itself.
You will have to let me know what you have published in this field and we can compare our work.I have contributed to Major Mike Reynold's superb SS armour series ( a world best seller),to numerous Osprey campaign books, to the recent 'Zitadelle' (Kursk) publication and the excellent 'Duel in the Mist' book which concentrates on Peiper's battlegroup in the Ardennes,even detailing individual tank camouflage and highlighting which particular factory this was applied in.Of course this is besides the 20 or so of my own publications detailing German Divisional strengths in the latter years of the war.Just Google in J Dugdale Panzer Divisions and you should recieve hundreds of replies.
Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff,

'Duel in the mist' sounds very good.(was just looking online)The Tank camo pics,are these similar to the Osprey colour plates?.

Rob
 
King & Country said:
Hi Guys,

One of our friends was disputing the accuracy of our new German winter vehicles. He may be right, or he may be wrong, he seems to have incredible access to all kinds of late war German documents. As several other posters have written actual German records at that late stage of the war could also be inaccurate and anyone who has ever been in the military knows there are always exceptions to any rules and regulations, especially when it comes to painting vehicles. So, none of us including our expert can ever positively, definitely state that every single vehicle corresponded with the instructions issued by the German staff. When it came to the Battle of the Bulge Hitler and his generals scraped together all kinds of vehicles from all kinds of sources...new and old...to form his attacking force...so there!

Love and kisses,
Andy C. in Chicago
Click to expand...

I agree so there.............:) I collect soldiers because i like the product the vehicle/plane/soldier not because of anything historical,i love german stuff but im no nazi.I cant understand why some get so picky about stuff,like ive said before IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT BUY IT.So there.
Love and kisses
Wayne.G. in Fremantle.....:D
 
Rob said:
Well this thread has certainly ignited a debate!.Speaking only for myself i love all the forthcoming Bulge stuff,none of us can speak with 100% certainty about what was there,the radio truck is such a good model it would be daft not to have this in my collection because there is a small chance it wasn't there in Grey.Collecting these things is after all a hobby that gives us a great pleasure,again speaking for myself theres no inspector that comes round armed with an armful of Wehrmacht papers pointing out problems in my collection!.

All opinions are of course equally valid and appreciated,however at some point one has to draw a line,and i think both the Radio truck and Jagdpanzer are just too good to miss.

Rob
Click to expand...

No one expects the inspector with an armful of Wehrmact papers ... :eek:

As for the rest of what you said, we can only go so far in these debates, nor do I want to go any further. The pieces look great. I have pre-ordered the new Bulge releases from my K&C dealer who once again is wondering how I get to know about them before they do. :) But I also plan to take advantage of Tullock's store of documents and knowledge - silly him for revealing just how much raw data he has :)

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
No one expects the inspector with an armful of Wehrmact papers ... :eek:

As for the rest of what you said, we can only go so far in these debates, nor do I want to go any further. The pieces look great. I have pre-ordered the new Bulge releases from my K&C dealer who once again is wondering how I get to know about them before they do. :)

Terry
Click to expand...

Quite agree mate,some excellent points from everyone here.I think this is an outstanding set of releases from K&C I really do.Coming hot on the heels of the RAF terrific new range it once again shows how K&C have got to where they are.There is a lot of competition around these days and K&C have risen to the challenge with their recent releases,the result is nothing but good for us collectors.Wonderful range and depth to our collections,its all good;)

Rob
 
Hi Guys,

WOW! WOW! and WOW! again...

Finally, I have been found out ! Thanks to our new resident German camouflage and markings expert you now know how "sloppy" I have been all these years.

What can I say? Sincerest apologize to all of you who have been duped by myself...I take full responsibility for all of the errors and will resign from King & Country effectively from 9:00 am this morning!

Thank you also to our new resident Confederate army expert for pointing out how our recent cavalry figures have also been "sloppy" in their non-uniform appearance. How could I have not seen how well supplied and dressed all those "johnny rebs" actually wear!!!

So, with all of our friend's expertise and knowledge I look forward to hearing and seeing him start up his very own toy soldier company...very soon.

Apologies once again for misleading so many of you for so long...I am off to find myself a little monastery in the foothills of Tibet where I can meditate on my transgressions and contemplate my uncertain future...

Love and kisses,
Andy C. (sob, sob, sob!)
 
King & Country said:
Hi Guys,

WOW! WOW! and WOW! again...

Finally, I have been found out ! Thanks to our new resident German camouflage and markings expert you now know how "sloppy" I have been all these years.

What can I say? Sincerest apologize to all of you who have been duped by myself...I take full responsibility for all of the errors and will resign from King & Country effectively from 9:00 am this morning!

Thank you also to our new resident Confederate army expert for pointing out how our recent cavalry figures have also been "sloppy" in their non-uniform appearance. How could I have not seen how well supplied and dressed all those "johnny rebs" actually wear!!!

So, with all of our friend's expertise and knowledge I look forward to hearing and seeing him start up his very own toy soldier company...very soon.

Apologies once again for misleading so many of you for so long...I am off to find myself a little monastry in the foothills of Tibet where I can meditate on my transgressions and contemplate my uncertain future...

Love and kisses,
Andy C. (sob, sob, sob!)
Click to expand...

I'm afraid we can't accept your resignation Andy,you promised us Arnhem and D day for next year,and besides, we can easily reach you in Tibet;)

Rob
 
Jeff,

You sound like a very experienced author. Can you tell us some of the books you've written, as well as your full name of course :) Thanks.
 
When other collectors and visitors look at my dioramas they continuously comment on the inaccuracies of markings and paint treatments of vehicles and figures. Heck, even a few of them make the analogy that it’s like reading a paper with grammatical errors preventing them from getting to the content!

DON’T YOU BELIEVE IT.? On the contrary the only comments I get are exceedingly positive because of the diorama themes and particularly due to the quality of the figures and vehicles that have been produced.

Perfection in research should be the objective however enjoyment of these wonderful releases should be treasured more IMO.

Sometimes I wonder about the real motivations of some collectors who pose as "experts" that make comments on accuracy. It some times seems like "pot shots" made for there amusements which unjustly draws attention to themselves instead of the release. It's a fine line between constructive criticism and making pot shots for self centered purposes. Only forum members can make that decision.

I respect the right of everyone to say what they want on this subject and yet how many of us realize the effort, time and expense to research historic events, uniforms, artillery, etc. from almost the beginning of time where good documentation isn’t always readily available?

KC does an excellent job producing themes from many different eras and battles and IMO does an awesome job; that is why he is the KING.

Carlos
 
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