Covid-19 info (1 Viewer)

[marco55]

I don't want to die either but that's what happens in pandemics.What ticks most people off by this one is most of it could have been prevented if a certain government had been honest and open about it.I was listening about New Orleans.Between 1803 and the civil war 150,000 people died of yellow fever.They didn't shut down the city totally, they quarantined hot spots and took steps to defeat it.They were fearful of it but they did not let it conquer them.
Mark

 

[zblang]

So, 150,000 died and that’s what you point to on how to deal with this?
Seems if I were making an argument on why reopen and how better to deal with it, using an example with 150k deaths isn’t the best evidence.

 

[tdubel]

Reopening is going to have to be as it has been on a State by State basis. The number to watch is if there is a spike in deaths, that is the key statistic or you could argue hospitalizations as these are the most important indicators. So far, the States that have opened seem to be doing better than predicted in those 2 categories, that means a lot to me personally as that is a builder of confidence for me.

Each his own on this but as discussed, there is no one stop all solution for everyone. On a side note, the only bad feedback I have seen on haircuts is I think Missouri or Arkansas (can't remember) where for some unknown reason, a worker who was not feeling well was allowed to work. That is wrong and I believe caused a spike in positives, hopefully they are not catastrophic, but that is something that was quite easily preventable and the shop could have been open. That is human error or idiocy plain and simple.

TD

 

[marco55]

Yes that's what you do point to as people always die in plagues/pandemics.50% people have died in nursing homes,25% not in nursing homes but high age bracket so basically 25,000 which I'm not belittling as every life is precious but you can't destroy 330 million people to save a few.Our operations director was a former Air Force officer and when they were talking about job cuts he said he would sacrifice 500 to save a 1000.The virus will not be cured.There is no cure for viruses.Even a vaccine won't save everybody.
Mark

 

[lancer]

Reopening is going to have to be as it has been on a State by State basis. The number to watch is if there is a spike in deaths, that is the key statistic or you could argue hospitalizations as these are the most important indicators. So far, the States that have opened seem to be doing better than predicted in those 2 categories, that means a lot to me personally as that is a builder of confidence for me.

Each his own on this but as discussed, there is no one stop all solution for everyone. On a side note, the only bad feedback I have seen on haircuts is I think Missouri or Arkansas (can't remember) where for some unknown reason, a worker who was not feeling well was allowed to work. That is wrong and I believe caused a spike in positives, hopefully they are not catastrophic, but that is something that was quite easily preventable and the shop could have been open. That is human error or idiocy plain and simple.

TD

Tom, that story was a hairdresser in Missouri that went to work with Covid symptoms for 8 days and exposed at least 90 people. No excuse for that kind of idiocy. -- Al

 

[lancer]

Tom, that story was a hairdresser in Missouri that went to work with Covid symptoms for 8 days and exposed at least 90 people. No excuse for that kind of idiocy. -- Al

An update on this: It was 2 hairdressers and they now believe 140 people have been exposed. -- Al

 

[zblang]

They should both be arrested in my opinion. If you’re one of these asymptotic people, fine, but if knowingly have symptoms, that’s a whole different story!

 

[jazzeum]

They should both be arrested in my opinion. If you’re one of these asymptotic people, fine, but if knowingly have symptoms, that’s a whole different story!

If they were forced to work (and I don’t know that’s the case) their superiors should be arrested. That’s what happened with the meat packing plants where the workers have been forced to work.

 

[tdubel]

If they were forced to work (and I don’t know that’s the case) their superiors should be arrested. That’s what happened with the meat packing plants where the workers have been forced to work.

I dont know the full story either, but it is idiocy plain and simple as I said. Just DUMB. The only thing I can figure is they needed/wanted/had to work. I can't imagine hair dressers being forced, but I guess stranger things have happened.

TD

 

[marco55]

If your called back to work and refuse you lose your unemployment but if your quarantined I don't know if you can keep collecting.Part of the problem is a lot of people still haven't received their compensation and it's been over 2 months since they first applied.

Mark

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

If I'm not mistaken, hairdressers are independent contractors...even the ones who work at franchises. So, there is no "forcing" anyone to work in that industry. In fact, you can't force an independent contractor to do anything. Totally irresponsible on their part, the hairdressers that is.

In the civilian world, I don't agree with sacrificing X amount of people to save Y amount of people. That kind of talk is haughty in my opinion. In the military, losses are sad, yet expected. However, every armed service member know they are expendable. A word I found out early in my time in the military and it sure as hell didn't make me feel that I was so important anymore. Essential, yes, trained and ready to go, but expendable. Civilians are not expendable, especially the vulnerable, elderly and weak, but overall civilian deaths are not acceptable in any situation and regardless of cause. If this virus only affected our children the response who be quite different. Well, I say that but after seeing the response in the last six months who knows.

If we go down the road that the elderly, vulnerable, sick, weak and regular joe and jane are expendable (for the greater good) then we have lost all our moral faculties of what America is all about for the sake of capitalism. We would no longer be "We the People", rather "We the healthy" or "We the in power" and that would be a travesty. Again, this cavalier attitude of "sacrifice" is a sick bravado that I don't agree with and NEVER will. No man, woman or child who lives in this country should "take the virus bullet" so that we can go shopping. Nuh-uh and no this is not a "war" which has been touted, its a Pandemic...a terrible one and I wish for once that the military comparisons would be left out to describe the response. "War"...for heavens sakes...please.

We are coming up on June the 1st here and I will report back with the numbers like I did in May. I don't wan't to as I fear they are going to be shocking. We all know that we will surpass the 100K mark, but how fast we got there is mind boggling. Overall, it looks like within 5 months 100 thousand souls have passed, which is, and always be unacceptable. But, hey lets go play some golf.

John from Texas

 

[tdubel]

All,

If I'm not mistaken, hairdressers are independent contractors...even the ones who work at franchises. So, there is no "forcing" anyone to work in that industry. In fact, you can't force an independent contractor to do anything. Totally irresponsible on their part, the hairdressers that is.

In the civilian world, I don't agree with sacrificing X amount of people to save Y amount of people. That kind of talk is haughty in my opinion. In the military, losses are sad, yet expected. However, every armed service member know they are expendable. A word I found out early in my time in the military and it sure as hell didn't make me feel that I was so important anymore. Essential, yes, trained and ready to go, but expendable. Civilians are not expendable, especially the vulnerable, elderly and weak, but overall civilian deaths are not acceptable in any situation and regardless of cause. If this virus only affected our children the response who be quite different. Well, I say that but after seeing the response in the last six months who knows.

If we go down the road that the elderly, vulnerable, sick, weak and regular joe and jane are expendable (for the greater good) then we have lost all our moral faculties of what America is all about for the sake of capitalism. We would no longer be "We the People", rather "We the healthy" or "We the in power" and that would be a travesty. Again, this cavalier attitude of "sacrifice" is a sick bravado that I don't agree with and NEVER will. No man, woman or child who lives in this country should "take the virus bullet" so that we can go shopping. Nuh-uh and no this is not a "war" which has been touted, its a Pandemic...a terrible one and I wish for once that the military comparisons would be left out to describe the response. "War"...for heavens sakes...please.

We are coming up on June the 1st here and I will report back with the numbers like I did in May. I don't wan't to as I fear they are going to be shocking. We all know that we will surpass the 100K mark, but how fast we got there is mind boggling. Overall, it looks like within 5 months 100 thousand souls have passed, which is, and always be unacceptable. But, hey lets go play some golf.

John from Texas

John, I hear ya and don't disagree on the moral thoughts. You are correct on Independent Contractors which is what I was getting at, the only way to force them I guess is if the shopowner told them their spot would be gone to someone else. THAT SAID< it was still entirely stupid to work when you knowingly don't feel well. Again, that was dumb to me.

Regarding numbers, they will go up, there has been more testing. The key metric for me is the rise or the rise in decline of deaths/hospitalizations and that number no matter how high is unfortunate, but I hope it is declining as we are moving past the panic stages of this pandemic. It is going to take time in some areas more than others.

I don't find fault with people playing golf if it is safe to do so and in a lot of areas it is. And it doesn't matter if you are the President or not. Our leaders I hope find some respite from the last 75 days, I mean I don't care who they are from Newsom to Trump, they all need a few hours of downtime, they are human. The whole thing is a nightmare, put yourself in their place for a minute, no matter how great or bad they are perceived to be, there ultimate response will NEVER be judged as right. SO, they have to put that aside as much as they can and make the best decisions they can with the data they have. They are doing that on all fronts. I am the first to criticize our MD Governor, however in the last month, he has stopped reading the "playbook" and started to take charge and make decisions based on what the medical experts here label as key data. Is he running a risk at times, sure, because unfortunately, the data from the start of this has sucked. That said, I think they are all doing a better job than I probably expected and I think that is a good thing. I don't blame any deaths on any of them directly, they just didn't know what they were truly dealing with until they were in it.

People are ultimately responsible for themselves and you hope that they act with some intelligence and goodwill. Some will not and such as life, we will never fix that, you just hope on a whole we move past all of this sooner rather than later. Personally, I am taking the viewpoint that things get somewhat better everyday and that is a positive move toward normal.
Tom

 

[Louis Badolato]

All,

If I'm not mistaken, hairdressers are independent contractors...even the ones who work at franchises. So, there is no "forcing" anyone to work in that industry. In fact, you can't force an independent contractor to do anything. Totally irresponsible on their part, the hairdressers that is.

In the civilian world, I don't agree with sacrificing X amount of people to save Y amount of people. That kind of talk is haughty in my opinion. In the military, losses are sad, yet expected. However, every armed service member know they are expendable. A word I found out early in my time in the military and it sure as hell didn't make me feel that I was so important anymore. Essential, yes, trained and ready to go, but expendable. Civilians are not expendable, especially the vulnerable, elderly and weak, but overall civilian deaths are not acceptable in any situation and regardless of cause. If this virus only affected our children the response who be quite different. Well, I say that but after seeing the response in the last six months who knows.

If we go down the road that the elderly, vulnerable, sick, weak and regular joe and jane are expendable (for the greater good) then we have lost all our moral faculties of what America is all about for the sake of capitalism. We would no longer be "We the People", rather "We the healthy" or "We the in power" and that would be a travesty. Again, this cavalier attitude of "sacrifice" is a sick bravado that I don't agree with and NEVER will. No man, woman or child who lives in this country should "take the virus bullet" so that we can go shopping. Nuh-uh and no this is not a "war" which has been touted, its a Pandemic...a terrible one and I wish for once that the military comparisons would be left out to describe the response. "War"...for heavens sakes...please.

We are coming up on June the 1st here and I will report back with the numbers like I did in May. I don't wan't to as I fear they are going to be shocking. We all know that we will surpass the 100K mark, but how fast we got there is mind boggling. Overall, it looks like within 5 months 100 thousand souls have passed, which is, and always be unacceptable. But, hey lets go play some golf.

John from Texas

Thank you John, for telling it like it is.

 

[OzDigger]

All,

If I'm not mistaken, hairdressers are independent contractors...even the ones who work at franchises. So, there is no "forcing" anyone to work in that industry. In fact, you can't force an independent contractor to do anything. Totally irresponsible on their part, the hairdressers that is.

In the civilian world, I don't agree with sacrificing X amount of people to save Y amount of people. That kind of talk is haughty in my opinion. In the military, losses are sad, yet expected. However, every armed service member know they are expendable. A word I found out early in my time in the military and it sure as hell didn't make me feel that I was so important anymore. Essential, yes, trained and ready to go, but expendable. Civilians are not expendable, especially the vulnerable, elderly and weak, but overall civilian deaths are not acceptable in any situation and regardless of cause. If this virus only affected our children the response who be quite different. Well, I say that but after seeing the response in the last six months who knows.

If we go down the road that the elderly, vulnerable, sick, weak and regular joe and jane are expendable (for the greater good) then we have lost all our moral faculties of what America is all about for the sake of capitalism. We would no longer be "We the People", rather "We the healthy" or "We the in power" and that would be a travesty. Again, this cavalier attitude of "sacrifice" is a sick bravado that I don't agree with and NEVER will. No man, woman or child who lives in this country should "take the virus bullet" so that we can go shopping. Nuh-uh and no this is not a "war" which has been touted, its a Pandemic...a terrible one and I wish for once that the military comparisons would be left out to describe the response. "War"...for heavens sakes...please.

We are coming up on June the 1st here and I will report back with the numbers like I did in May. I don't wan't to as I fear they are going to be shocking. We all know that we will surpass the 100K mark, but how fast we got there is mind boggling. Overall, it looks like within 5 months 100 thousand souls have passed, which is, and always be unacceptable. But, hey lets go play some golf.

John from Texas

Although he is often criticised for his beliefs I feel Australia was lucky in that our current Prime Minister is a religious person. He decided it was best to suffer some economic difficulties rather than a high death toll. When you compare the Covid deaths of a 100 or so in Australia (population 25 Million) to Sweden (population 10 Million) where thousands have died, you realise the actual Cost of Swedens Heard Immunity theory. Who knows what affect Covid19 will have in the future, but I feel we made the initial 'proper' decision in our country.

 

[zblang]

Johnny Alpha with the post of the month! Couldn’t have said it better!

 

[ivanmoe]

If we go down the road that the elderly, vulnerable, sick, weak and regular joe and jane are expendable (for the greater good) then we have lost all our moral faculties of what America is all about for the sake of capitalism. We would no longer be "We the People", rather "We the healthy" or "We the in power" and that would be a travesty. Again, this cavalier attitude of "sacrifice" is a sick bravado that I don't agree with and NEVER will. No man, woman or child who lives in this country should "take the virus bullet" so that we can go shopping. Nuh-uh and no this is not a "war" which has been touted, its a Pandemic...a terrible one and I wish for once that the military comparisons would be left out to describe the response. "War"...for heavens sakes...please.

John,

A lot of people died precisely because of the blanket approach that governments employed in response to the coronavirus emergency. Our leaders took a shotgun to the problem in a professed effort to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. I supported the effort, knowing full well that all manner of mayhem was gonna be inflicted on people who needed care, but who weren't going to receive it. For example, the "infusion center" at St David's here in Austin was shut completely down for almost six weeks. Victims, most of them women, who needed chemotherapy were systematically denied access to the resource. They just sat at home and rotted away, knowing full well that their prospects for relief from the ravages of disease were sacrificed on the altar of someone else's perception of a greater good. Again, I supported the shutdowns and the diversion of resources to preventing a genuine "mass casualty" scenario. However, I can't delude myself into believing that there's anything particularly holy involved in imposing solutions like that. For many, like all those gals who were denied chemo, the solution undeniably proved to be fatal. I climbed onboard for a regime such that innumerable individuals were going to be sacrificed in the belief that a more substantial number would survive as a result. While the whole concept is rooted in a kind of ghastly, actuarial calculus, I acknowledge that the moral compromise is, nonetheless, painful as hell to confront. Perhaps that's why so many of us seem unwilling to do so, or, again perhaps, why some choose to simply look the other way and pretend that none of what I outline above has actually taken place.

-Moe

 

[ivanmoe]

Reading through the several posts in the "info" thread, I was reminded of Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

A short video:

And further reading in case you still don't understand why we're LIKELY wrong in our assumptions, one way or the other:

https://www.philosophyzer.com/the-allegory-of-the-cave-by-plato-summary-and-meaning/

-Moe

 

[jazzeum]

For those interested in getting tested (you don’t have to be symptomatic), Rite Aid is offering testing in certain states at no charge to you. Here is the link, https://www.riteaid.com/pharmacy/services/covid-19-testing

You have to have a Google email but those are easy enough to make. My wife and I had testing done on Friday and we received the results today (both negative).

 

[marco55]

John,

A lot of people died precisely because of the blanket approach that governments employed in response to the coronavirus emergency. Our leaders took a shotgun to the problem in a professed effort to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. I supported the effort, knowing full well that all manner of mayhem was gonna be inflicted on people who needed care, but who weren't going to receive it. For example, the "infusion center" at St David's here in Austin was shut completely down for almost six weeks. Victims, most of them women, who needed chemotherapy were systematically denied access to the resource. They just sat at home and rotted away, knowing full well that their prospects for relief from the ravages of disease were sacrificed on the altar of someone else's perception of a greater good. Again, I supported the shutdowns and the diversion of resources to preventing a genuine "mass casualty" scenario. However, I can't delude myself into believing that there's anything particularly holy involved in imposing solutions like that. For many, like all those gals who were denied chemo, the solution undeniably proved to be fatal. I climbed onboard for a regime such that innumerable individuals were going to be sacrificed in the belief that a more substantial number would survive as a result. While the whole concept is rooted in a kind of ghastly, actuarial calculus, I acknowledge that the moral compromise is, nonetheless, painful as hell to confront. Perhaps that's why so many of us seem unwilling to do so, or, again perhaps, why some choose to simply look the other way and pretend that none of what I outline above has actually taken place.

-Moe

This is the post of the month.
Ontario reported at least 3 dozen died of heart disease because they weren't allowed to be treated.Estimated 80,000 possible cancer patients not checked because it's not virus related,suicides,domestic abuses,drug overdoses,1.3 million health care workers lost their jobs.It goes on and on.Colorado took off over 300 deaths of their total that was originally classified as virus related but wasn't and I'll bet every state and country could probably do that also. I probably sound like a cold hearted bastard but I'm not but reality is people are going to die from this and maybe for a long time.People are still dying from the flu 100 years after it first appeared.I guess as long as it isn't covid related any other kind of death is acceptable. Cuomo said it best,Everyone has been wrong since the beginning of this.
Mark

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

Moe:

I read your post in horror knowing that my wife is currently going through chemotherapy right now for breast cancer. IF my wife was denied chemo due to the virus I probably would either be in jail or dead right now, because I would have showed up to the treatment center locked, cocked and ready to rock. I honestly can't believe I am saying that right now, but imagine the insanity (yet sane on the other hand) of my thought process of taking a weapon to the Docs office in order (to force) him to administer drugs that are designed to kill you...to kill the cancer. Yeah, this kid would have gone full hostage mode to get his wife the treatment she needs and wouldn't care one bit about the consequences. Bring it...its my wife life for Christ sakes.

OZ:

Australia doesn't mess around. When the Port Arthur mass shooting happened (I was in Japan when that happened and remember it) Australia response quickly and the rest is history when it comes to gun rules and ownership. I find Australia to be a very pragmatic country when it comes to the health and safety of its citizens all the way down to Johnny Depp incident when it came down to bringing his pets into the country. So, I say "Don't mess with Texas, but really don't mess with Australia".

Mark:

The reverberations of COVID NEED to be calculated formally and I mean more than unemployment numbers for all of us to understand the effects of the virus in the aggregate. I know your not trying to minimize COVID, rather making sure that we never forget the "big picture" and yeah it is not pretty and...

TD:

...thats why GW Bush didn't hit the links after 9/11 for the rest of his Presidency. It wasn't important and 9/11 was a very ugly situation to be in...for all of us. Just like this. I try to maintain a positive attitude as well TD, however I learned an old philosophy that the Samurai used the day before they went to battle.

They would sit seiza (Japanese style) and go into a deep state of meditation and imagine being killed in battle. In fact, they would imagine a most vicious painful death and see themselves dead on the battlefield. They would see it, smell it, taste it, feel it and experience it in grotesque detail and cement the image in their head.

Then they would come out of their meditation, get a good nights rest wake up, eats some rice, do their hair, get prepared and go into battle with nothing to lose, because they have already died in the battle.

So, Die before before battle and if you come out alive then its a good day and in regards to this I don't think we have imagined hard enough.

John from Texas