COVID the 3rd (2 Viewers)

[tdubel]

The turn of this thread to the shooting in Kenosha was inevitable. Like all things related to the Vid it eventually turns sour.

So I’ll throw this in before it gets shut down:

The constant guessing, second guessing and analysis seems to undermine one of the greatest aspects of American law, we are ALL innocent until proven guilty. All too often we judge too early and draw conclusions based on minimal information.

Jason, it is a great point. Unfortunately, in the world of 24/7 news, there is no patience to allow the facts to come out. Surely, on first look a guy gets shot 7 times in the back you would assume there is a problem and it is very unfortunate. However, common senses dictates there is more to it that what meets the eye. I also thought another sign that there is more to it than meets the eye is the his family's reaction, it was very subdued and cautionary, not inflammatory.

I am not making any judgement on the actions of the police officers involved, it is not my place, but I 100% believe that the facts need to fully come out in all cases before our media wholeheartedly puts gas on fire. And in this case, there was zero discretion shown by any news channel, they all went for the almighty ratings angle which sells Ad dollars. If you want to know how big a business it is, look at the worst rated programs, they have NO trouble selling ads. As a matter of fact, there is a backlog to even get ads on.

IMO

TD

 

[damian]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-02/woman-charged-ballarat-covid-protest-live-stream/12623118

Wow

Seems a bit disproportionate

 

[marco55]

Big Brother has arrived. Time to put him down.Enough is enough.They are using the virus for control but their in for a big surprise over here.
Mark

 

[mikemiller1955]

I'm delighted...
I heard they were trying to pass a bill in the US...
that if you are arrested at a protest/riot...
you will no longer receive stimulus or unemployment benefits...

 

[ivanmoe]

I'm delighted...

Mike,

Are you delighted because the gal was arranging a protest or because she was arrested?

-Moe

 

[mikemiller1955]

Mike,

Are you delighted because the gal was arranging a protest or because she was arrested?

-Moe

Moe...

I don't have any concerns about a "peaceful protest"...
no looting...no arson...no violence...no vandalism...
actually peaceful...
nothing wrong with that...

that post just reminded me of a news story I heard the other day...
that even if the judges/mayors/governors...
in some of these cities won't prosecute the arrested hardliners protesting...
and I mean the "non peaceful" ones that get arrested...
committing violence...arson...looting...destroying property...

the federal government is threatening to quit supporting them...
that delights me!...^&grin

 

[Combat]

Moe...



the federal government is threatening to quit supporting them...
that delights me!...^&grin

"Threatening" is the key word. For whatever reason, there is a lot of tough talk but little action taken. I can't understand why local governments are allowed to decide they will not enforce state or federal laws. When they did that during the Civil Rights era, the federal government did not hesitate to send in the National Guard even when the governors and mayors didn't want them. But now they either can't or won't. They have to be "invited" by the very people who are thwarting the law. So it's just talk and threats that they will do so.

 

[ivanmoe]

Moe...

I don't have any concerns about a "peaceful protest"...
no looting...no arson...no violence...no vandalism...
actually peaceful...
nothing wrong with that...

that post just reminded me of a news story I heard the other day...
that even if the judges/mayors/governors...
in some of these cities won't prosecute the arrested hardliners protesting...
and I mean the "non peaceful" ones that get arrested...
committing violence...arson...looting...destroying property...

the federal government is threatening to quit supporting them...
that delights me!...^&grin

Mike,

Tell you one thing, I seriously doubt that there's a more widely accepted expectation of government than that it protect its citizenry. Back in 2015, I recall the mayor of Baltimore stating the following, only to have her town go up in flames:

Because while we try to make sure that they were protected from the cars and other things that were going on, we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well

Source: https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015...those-who-wished-to-destroy-space-to-do-that/

At the time, I was really kind of horrified. What would it be like to live in a city where decision makers take law enforcement off the table and turn a mob loose on a community? Well, now we've seen it played out over and over again. I'm having a modest home built in Costa Rica. Might be time to move on.

-Moe

 

[mikemiller1955]

Mike,

Tell you one thing, I seriously doubt that there's a more widely accepted expectation of government than that it protect its citizenry. Back in 2015, I recall the mayor of Baltimore stating the following, only to have her town go up in flames:



Source: https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015...those-who-wished-to-destroy-space-to-do-that/

At the time, I was really kind of horrified. What would it be like to live in a city where decision makers take law enforcement off the table and turn a mob loose on a community? Well, now we've seen it played out over and over again. I'm having a modest home built in Costa Rica. Might be time to move on.

-Moe

whaaaaaaat...for real?
wonder if she got re-elected...

I just looked her up...
she didn't run a second term...
but I do interpret that as "let them burn this city down"...

I may move down there with you...

 

[tdubel]

whaaaaaaat...for real?
wonder if she got re-elected...

I just looked her up...
she didn't run a second term...
but I do interpret that as "let them burn this city down"...

I may move down there with you...

Now you know why when people ask me where I am from, I take great pains to describe that I grew up in RURAL Maryland. NOT Baltimore, I am NOT a Baltimore guy, thank God! I don't care what anyone says, the place is a disgrace, we only go there to dine in Little Italy as I have spent a lot of time in that neighborhood. And I know this is going to sound Cliche, but even that neighborhood declined when what we know as the American Mafia was removed. I know you just can't make this up, but truth is stranger than fiction. We don't even go there any longer. The City is dangerous and really no longer has anything to offer. There are muggings in good, bad and so so neighborhoods, the City has given up IMO. Anyone who tells you it is not dangerous is kidding themselves. The broad daylight robberies, stabbing and murders are astounding.

Now y'all know why I say moving South to Florida sooner rather than later, but have to get a son through college and retire so still a few years away.
TD

 

[Panzer ace]

I know I am not that smart but the huge protests didn’t lead to a massive spread, fans at NASCAR races didn’t, the bike rally in Sturgis didn’t, evacuation centers for recent hurricanes didn’t.....

Yes there have been some cases related to these events but nothing near what the news has predicted.

 

[Go for Broke]

I know I am not that smart but the huge protests didn’t lead to a massive spread, fans at NASCAR races didn’t, the bike rally in Sturgis didn’t, evacuation centers for recent hurricanes didn’t.....

Yes there have been some cases related to these events but nothing near what the news has predicted.

What I don't understand, is the homeless was not hit with the Covid like the general population. Is it because they're outdoors or they're exposed to germs all time and develop immunity?

 

[nysoldiers]

I know I am not that smart but the huge protests didn’t lead to a massive spread, fans at NASCAR races didn’t, the bike rally in Sturgis didn’t, evacuation centers for recent hurricanes didn’t.....

Yes there have been some cases related to these events but nothing near what the news has predicted.

Several University studies and more to come show that Sturgis can be linked to over 250,000 new cases. The statistics as to deaths will come later.
The protests and NASCAR statistics are hard to come by due to limited tracing data.

 

[tdubel]

Several University studies and more to come show that Sturgis can be linked to over 250,000 new cases. The statistics as to deaths will come later.
The protests and NASCAR statistics are hard to come by due to limited tracing data.

Rich,
I am not disputing this, but I just read several articles from various sources on this and I have a few issues, professional skepticism, not opinion. A. Lack of details and estimates seem very theoretical with not a lot of iron facts shown. B. The conclusions almost seem like made for press headlines (Again, I cannot get to the actual data, I am only reading summaries. C. Peer Review - none of the studies (main one being done by a German think tank with affiliations with American Universities) have been peer reviewed.

Look, common sense would dictate a large gathering increases the chance of spread. However, before I believe any of this, these studies need to be vetted and peer reviewed. Again, I am not saying its not plausible, I am just saying right now, these look like "made for tv" headlines. I also don't like the fact that they claim to be University studies until you get into the details and find out the source.

End of day, for me common sense would avoid a gathering of that size.

Funny thing about crowd size, I am doing a toy soldier show this weekend in Annandale where attendance varies between 150 - 250 throughout the day in total, probably 100 at any one time max. We have been going to grocery stores where there are I would guess average of 150 plus inside at any given time. Odd how our minds equate necessity and crowd size. Point is, I have gotten some feedback about the show, like "I avoid large crowds", I said, do you go to the grocery store, answer Yes about 3 times a week.

Stay safe
TD

 

[nysoldiers]

Rich,
I am not disputing this, but I just read several articles from various sources on this and I have a few issues, professional skepticism, not opinion. A. Lack of details and estimates seem very theoretical with not a lot of iron facts shown. B. The conclusions almost seem like made for press headlines (Again, I cannot get to the actual data, I am only reading summaries. C. Peer Review - none of the studies (main one being done by a German think tank with affiliations with American Universities) have been peer reviewed.

Look, common sense would dictate a large gathering increases the chance of spread. However, before I believe any of this, these studies need to be vetted and peer reviewed. Again, I am not saying its not plausible, I am just saying right now, these look like "made for tv" headlines. I also don't like the fact that they claim to be University studies until you get into the details and find out the source.

End of day, for me common sense would avoid a gathering of that size.

Funny thing about crowd size, I am doing a toy soldier show this weekend in Annandale where attendance varies between 150 - 250 throughout the day in total, probably 100 at any one time max. We have been going to grocery stores where there are I would guess average of 150 plus inside at any given time. Odd how our minds equate necessity and crowd size. Point is, I have gotten some feedback about the show, like "I avoid large crowds", I said, do you go to the grocery store, answer Yes about 3 times a week.

Stay safe
TD

I agree that I would like to see more studies and peer revues. I was just passing on some information and will wait for further studies. Unfortunately no matter which way the data turns out one group will dispute it. Like you said common sense and a belief in science should be the prevailing sentiment for staying safe. People have lost faith in the media and our government so turning to social media seems to be more prevalent and that is the worst place to get your information!
John Hopkins will come out with a report shortly I am told but contact tracing has many challenges to being wholly accurate.

 

[marco55]

Good post Tom.I just saw myself where they are all surprised that all these gathering they haven't had large scale problems.I guess it's where you get your news.Also heard that 5.5% of the deaths are covid alone. Doesn't make anyone feel better if they have lost family and friends with other issues.This is one strange virus.
Mark

 

[nysoldiers]

Good post Tom.I just saw myself where they are all surprised that all these gathering they haven't had large scale problems.I guess it's where you get your news.Also heard that 5.5% of the deaths are covid alone. Doesn't make anyone feel better if they have lost family and friends with other issues.This is one strange virus.
Mark

There are people who are now saying that the actual Covid deaths are a low percentage but that is very misleading and dangerous. True that older people with underlying medical conditions are more susceptible to dying when contracting Covid but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have had many years left to live if they didn't catch the virus. I fall into that category yet I hope to live many more years. So I don't want people saying its ok for younger folks to disregard precautions when they can spread the virus to their parents , grandparents and older relatives.
Its like saying that when a senior citizen with diabetes gets hit by a truck and dies it wasn't really the truck that killed them.
So people like me who worked for almost 50 years and can now retire and enjoy their life and grandchildren are expendable so younger folks can party, go to bars and rallies?

Pretty sad commentary on our society.

 

[Panzer ace]

I have read multiple articles that cite studies about the Sturgis Rally and potential cases related to the same. The estimates are hardly scientific. They make for a great headline but extrapolation and guessing isn’t science.

 

[Combat]

Gettysburg College just sent all their students home after giving it a go. I'm not sure what the public safety policy is behind that decision. They tell students to show up and then when they start getting the virus they send them back home to spread it around all over the country. Probably the worst possible scenario. But those are academics for you.

 

[marco55]

There are people who are now saying that the actual Covid deaths are a low percentage but that is very misleading and dangerous. True that older people with underlying medical conditions are more susceptible to dying when contracting Covid but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have had many years left to live if they didn't catch the virus. I fall into that category yet I hope to live many more years. So I don't want people saying its ok for younger folks to disregard precautions when they can spread the virus to their parents , grandparents and older relatives.
Its like saying that when a senior citizen with diabetes gets hit by a truck and dies it wasn't really the truck that killed them.
So people like me who worked for almost 50 years and can now retire and enjoy their life and grandchildren are expendable so younger folks can party, go to bars and rallies?

Pretty sad commentary on our society.

I agree with you as I'm going to retire in less than 2 years and I want to be around also but we forget that when we were young you just didn't think much about those things.When I was around 13 the Hong Kong flu was around and I think over 100,000 people died and over a million contracted it but I didn't even think about it.So we can't really fault the young too much for acting like a young person.

Mark