COVID the 3rd (1 Viewer)

[Mirof]

They say :
80000 were given the new vaccine 90% success
80000 vere given a Placebo and ... and ... nothing about the results
So how can we compare ?

Now let's see official statistics about Covid
exemple 1 : France 18.000.000 tested 1.800.000 positives to corona thus 10% thus 90% NON positives
exemple 2 ; USA 150.000.000 tested 10.200.000 positives to corona thus 7% thus 93% NON positives

THUS with vaccine the resulls are the same as without vaccine !!!!! What are we facing here : a missunderstanding ? a devious advert ? a missleading information ?

just compare the column total case with the column total test country by country
And we see that without any vaccine the result are arround the same value 90% healthy 10% positives
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

IMHO a vaccine for whose the reults are not far better than without vaccine is abolutely not an improvement

Just expect somebody is going to do better (with less noises about it !)

Best

 

[Louis Badolato]

They say :
80000 were given the new vaccine 90% success
80000 vere given a Placebo and ... and ... nothing about the results
So how can we compare ?

Now let's see official statistics about Covid
exemple 1 : France 18.000.000 tested 1.800.000 positives to corona thus 10% thus 90% NON positives
exemple 2 ; USA 150.000.000 tested 10.200.000 positives to corona thus 7% thus 93% NON positives

THUS with vaccine the resulls are the same as without vaccine !!!!! What are we facing here : a missunderstanding ? a devious advert ? a missleading information ?

just compare the column total case with the column total test country by country
And we see that without any vaccine the result are arround the same value 90% healthy 10% positives
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

IMHO a vaccine for whose the reults are not far better than without vaccine is abolutely not an improvement

Just expect somebody is going to do better (with less noises about it !)

Best

Respectfully, I am not sure you understand what they mean by 90% effective. My understanding of the articles is that 90% of the people receiving the vaccine developed Covid antibodies. The articles I read explained that this is the purpose of a vaccine, to develop the antibodies necessary to prevent people from catching a disease without having to actually contract the disease. A vaccine that causes the development of antibodies in 50% of people vaccinated or more will generally be approved by the FDA, so a 90% antibody development is considered very effective. That would mean that 90% of people vaccinated would be functionally immune from Covid during the period of effectiveness of the vaccine (before a booster is required). This has very little to do with the percentage of people tested who come back negative in the studies in France and the United States you referenced. Anyone who believes he or she was exposed, or that they have symptoms can seek to be tested. Of those people tested your numbers indicate that 90% or so came back negative. This does not mean that those 90% are immune, just that they did not have the virus when tested. I hope this makes you more optimistic about the potential of the vaccine. Unfortunately right now all the vaccine offers is potential. Until it is fully tested and approved, then made widely available and chosen to be taken by a large portion of the population the vaccine is just a hope, not the end to this mess we are all waiting for.

 

[jazzeum]

I don’t think you understand how clinical studies for new drugs work. You can only determine effectiveness by giving some people in the study placebos and then seeing how many get ill to determine if the vaccine offered any protection.

In this case 94 out out of 44,000 participants in the study have gotten ill. An independent board of experts looked at how many received the vaccine and how many the placebo and their early analysis suggests 90% effectiveness.

 

[Combat]

Despite having very stringent mask and social distancing requirements, the state of PA broke a record yesterday for most new cases. Higher than even back when this first began in the Spring when no one was wearing a mask. Schools are starting to close again. I'm not a "scientist" but the results seem to speak for themselves. Mask wearing certainly may help and everyone should wear them but they are not the miracle solution touted by some. The overstating of the effectiveness of masks appears to have been driven for political purposes. A certain politician was reluctant to wear one. So if the public could be convinced that they were highly effective, then by implication he could be blamed for the spread of the virus. But now that the election is over, there is no explanation or media discussion as to why the numbers are continuing to climb despite wide spread mask wearing. In fact, the rising case numbers are still blamed on the reluctance of some to wear them even though most people are wearing them in public.

 

[marco55]

Cases may be rising because we are in a pandemic. .You cannot sanitize the world 24/7. Our fearless leader is solving it by stopping indoor eating between 10pm-5am. I don't know about other areas but when I've went to diners in that time period there are a lot LESS people in there.:rolleyes2:
Mark

 

[nysoldiers]

Despite having very stringent mask and social distancing requirements, the state of PA broke a record yesterday for most new cases. Higher than even back when this first began in the Spring when no one was wearing a mask. Schools are starting to close again. I'm not a "scientist" but the results seem to speak for themselves. Mask wearing certainly may help and everyone should wear them but they are not the miracle solution touted by some. The overstating of the effectiveness of masks appears to have been driven for political purposes. A certain politician was reluctant to wear one. So if the public could be convinced that they were highly effective, then by implication he could be blamed for the spread of the virus. But now that the election is over, there is no explanation or media discussion as to why the numbers are continuing to climb despite wide spread mask wearing. In fact, the rising case numbers are still blamed on the reluctance of some to wear them even though most people are wearing them in public.

I have many friends and associates in the medical industry, including infectious disease doctors and micro-biologists. Masks are not perfect but they and social distancing are the best deterrents we have right now. This is an airborne virus so we know how it spreads. We know that many people refuse to wear the masks due to ignorance and misleading information and we know that people have let their guard down with social distancing. Young people in particular have spread this virus with their partying, bar hoping and congregating in colleges and sports events.
There is almost total consensus in the medical community that mask wearing can prevent a high percentage of infections. Unfortunately we have people in government who have made this political and ignored the science.....I guess we turned the wrong corner!

 

[Combat]

I have many friends and associates in the medical industry, including infectious disease doctors and micro-biologists. Masks are not perfect but they and social distancing are the best deterrents we have right now. This is an airborne virus so we know how it spreads. We know that many people refuse to wear the masks due to ignorance and misleading information and we know that people have let their guard down with social distancing. Young people in particular have spread this virus with their partying, bar hoping and congregating in colleges and sports events.
There is almost total consensus in the medical community that mask wearing can prevent a high percentage of infections. Unfortunately we have people in government who have made this political and ignored the science.....I guess we turned the wrong corner!

Maybe ask them why the number of virus cases is skyrocketing even though most people are wearing masks. The numbers are higher than when no one was wearing a mask or social distancing. That's hard to square with the conclusion that they are preventing a high percentage of infections. I'm not disputing that mask wearing may help and that everyone should continue to wear them even if they provide only a small benefit. What I believed has happened, however, is that their effectiveness has been grossly overstated for political purposes. It's the vaccine that will ultimately be the game changer. The head of the CDC who suggested otherwise should be terminated either for incompetence or interjecting politics into the discussion with information that was baseless or even false.

 

[Mirof]

Respectfully, I am not sure you understand what they mean by 90% effective. My understanding of the articles is that 90% of the people receiving the vaccine developed Covid antibodies. The articles I read explained that this is the purpose of a vaccine, to develop the antibodies necessary to prevent people from catching a disease without having to actually contract the disease. A vaccine that causes the development of antibodies in 50% of people vaccinated or more will generally be approved by the FDA, so a 90% antibody development is considered very effective. That would mean that 90% of people vaccinated would be functionally immune from Covid during the period of effectiveness of the vaccine (before a booster is required). This has very little to do with the percentage of people tested who come back negative in the studies in France and the United States you referenced. Anyone who believes he or she was exposed, or that they have symptoms can seek to be tested. Of those people tested your numbers indicate that 90% or so came back negative. This does not mean that those 90% are immune, just that they did not have the virus when tested. I hope this makes you more optimistic about the potential of the vaccine. Unfortunately right now all the vaccine offers is potential. Until it is fully tested and approved, then made widely available and chosen to be taken by a large portion of the population the vaccine is just a hope, not the end to this mess we are all waiting for.

You are completey right, I had the chance meanwhile of reading the article and clearly it meant that on population that received the vaccine, the positive case are reduced by 90%

like 100.000 tested without having been vaccined would give something like 10.000 positives and on a population of 100.000 that have been vaccined, the positive case will be reduced to 1.000 ( 90% less )

Telling it that way is clearer and most encouraging

 

[nysoldiers]

Maybe ask them why the number of virus cases is skyrocketing even though most people are wearing masks. The numbers are higher than when no one was wearing a mask or social distancing. That's hard to square with the conclusion that they are preventing a high percentage of infections. I'm not disputing that mask wearing may help and that everyone should continue to wear them even if they provide only a small benefit. What I believed has happened, however, is that their effectiveness has been grossly overstated for political purposes. It's the vaccine that will ultimately be the game changer. The head of the CDC who suggested otherwise should be terminated either for incompetence or interjecting politics into the discussion with information that was baseless or even false.

The problem is that we only do "tracing" for 2% of infected people. If we had better tracing you could find out that infections are spread to and from unmasked and those who ignore social distancing.
Look at what happened to the White House staff and people who attended unmasked events.
It seems that the government underfunded or ignored tracing........maybe they didn't want to publicize where the spread was coming from?
Masks are not 100% effective but I believe that if we followed the masking guidelines all across our country we could have cut infections and deaths by at least 50%.

 

[marco55]

I've seen many doctors who have said the masks don't help much.I'm not talking about the ones medical workers use but these cheap ones that the straps break after 2 or 3 uses.Like I said before 10 doctors, 11 opinions.
Mark

 

[Terp152]

Stores are selling out of toilet paper and paper towels again. Chris

 

[jazzeum]

It’s indisputable that masks help prevent contracting the virus and on this a significant amount of doctors, especially those who are respiratory specialists, agree. However, it’s not a panacea for if it were the virus would be under control. In addition, I can’t tell you how many people I see either not wearing one or wearing one incorrectly. If a mask doesn’t cover the nose, why bother.

It’s also true that people have “virus fatigue.” However, the virus doesn’t care if you do or not. If our parents or grandparents could go without the enjoyments of life for four years during WW II, I think we can manage that for another year.

It’s also an indisputable fact that in the late fall respiratory infections increase. As the weather turns colder (although this weekend through Tuesday we had beautiful weather), people migrate from the outside to indoors and respiratory infections increase. This would be true if we had a virus or not.

 

[Warrior]

It’s indisputable that masks help prevent contracting the virus and on this a significant amount of doctors, especially those who are respiratory specialists, agree. However, it’s not a panacea for if it were the virus would be under control. In addition, I can’t tell you how many people I see either not wearing one or wearing one incorrectly. If a mask doesn’t cover the nose, why bother.

It’s also true that people have “virus fatigue.” However, the virus doesn’t care if you do or not. If our parents or grandparents could go without the enjoyments of life for four years during WW II, I think we can manage that for another year.

It’s also an indisputable fact that in the late fall respiratory infections increase. As the weather turns colder (although this weekend through Tuesday we had beautiful weather), people migrate from the outside to indoors and respiratory infections increase. This would be true if we had a virus or not.

Wearing masks has nothing to do with the spike in cases, at least here in MA.

Colleges reopened in September, kids are gathering, partying, spreading it everywhere, the largest newly infected age segment here is 19-29, wait until the holiday break and kids go back to Anytown USA and spread it everywhere.

This thing just keeps going on and on and on, no end in sight.

 

[nysoldiers]

Wearing masks has nothing to do with the spike in cases, at least here in MA.

Colleges reopened in September, kids are gathering, partying, spreading it everywhere, the largest newly infected age segment here is 19-29, wait until the holiday break and kids go back to Anytown USA and spread it everywhere.

This thing just keeps going on and on and on, no end in sight.[/QUOTEY

You're right! I took my nine year old grandson to shoot baskets at a local school court and it was packed with teenagers and college kids playing ball. Drove around to 5 other school courts and all jammed the same. Good weather and boredom, can't really blame them except no one wore a mask
and of course close contact even out doors is dangerous. They may not get sick but all of them come into contact with parents, grandparents and older relatives. In addition driving through local towns many people out not wearing masks.
Now we have growing cases in an area that was relatively safe.
If the vaccines get the go ahead we will still need many months to safely distribute and build the extreme cold storage facilities. So there is a light at the end of the tunnel but in the mean time we can lose another 100,000 or more lives.

 

[jazzeum]

You're right! I took my nine year old grandson to shoot baskets at a local school court and it was packed with teenagers and college kids playing ball. Drove around to 5 other school courts and all jammed the same. Good weather and boredom, can't really blame them except no one wore a mask
and of course close contact even out doors is dangerous. They may not get sick but all of them come into contact with parents, grandparents and older relatives. In addition driving through local towns many people out not wearing masks.
Now we have growing cases in an area that was relatively safe.
If the vaccines get the go ahead we will still need many months to safely distribute and build the extreme cold storage facilities. So there is a light at the end of the tunnel but in the mean time we can lose another 100,000 or more lives.

I don’t know how many of you caught the ND Clemson game but I watched the highlights on Sunday morning on Peacock and the stadium was crowded and I don’t recall seeing too many masks. That was amazing in and of itself but then when ND won in overtime, the crowd stormed the field. You want to know why it’s spreading. Look at events like that.

 

[mikemiller1955]

Americans do not have the discipline to stick with masks too long...
hopefully the vaccine will make up for our efforts...

 

[jazzeum]

Americans do not have the discipline to stick with masks too long...
hopefully the vaccine will make up for our efforts...

Why not? Have we gotten too soft, too devoted to our own needs to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. As I mentioned earlier, if our parents could make sacrifices to win WW II or make it through the Depression, why can’t we?

 

[Warrior]

Why not? Have we gotten too soft, too devoted to our own needs to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. As I mentioned earlier, if our parents could make sacrifices to win WW II or make it through the Depression, why can’t we?

They're not called The Greatest Generation for nothing.

The current generation; not so much.

 

[jazzeum]

They're not called The Greatest Generation for nothing.

The current generation; not so much.

Wonder what they will call the people who live now: the Softies?

 

[tdubel]

Wonder what they will call the people who live now: the Softies?

Brad
I have many more colorful names for our "new generation" but I will leave it at that.

Quick story - made my first air travel for work on Mon/Tues to Texas (south of Houston - West Columbia). Saw masks in full force. I even ate at a barbeque indoors (**** good) and on an off hour, I was the only one. Then went to a council meeting, distanced, not crowded. Then flew home. Was supposed to go to Illinois tomorrow and wait for it, Mayor of Chicago just issued an order that those arriving from MD (lots of other States too) upon arrival have to show Neg Covid Test (72 hrs or less prior) or quarantine for 14 days......................cancelled my trip. Now, I do have a problem with this, i.e., I am the one who was taking the risk by going there b/c I have zero symptoms, practice distancing, etc. I planned on being there about 10 hours total for 2 meetings and a drive back to airport. The way I viewed it, I was the one at risk, not Chicago. I frankly find this bullshot.

Anyhow, it took the risk off of me, so in one way, ok with it, economically, not really ok with it, cost my practice about 5K. The 5K is not the issue, but you can see how each of these type of activities gets cancelled, it multiplies, now spread that to 10 businesses, now 100, etc etc and it is easy to see the economy suffer.

Long story short, come on vaccine.

TD

PS - no problem with air travel, Delta did an outstanding job. I chose to sit in the front for peace of mind but after seeing entire plane, pretty good distancing and staggered boarding. Lots of sanitizer. However, you still have the idiot who as soon as they get on the plane, sneezes. (That I guess with air travel will never change!)