COVID the 3rd (1 Viewer)

[damian]

COVID is real
Vaccines do reduce your chance of dying
I just remain about whether the lockdowns and their economic devastation have been worth it

 

[tdubel]

Something like 35K Americans die from the flu every year. And the flu impacts not just those who are elderly or infirmed but even young and healthy folks. There are no mask mandates, lockdowns or hysteria regarding the flu. Those that decide not to take the flu vaccine take the risk and bear the consequences. The efficacy of the COVID vaccine is astounding. Effectively a zero chance that anyone who is vaccinated will die from the virus or variant. Similarly, younger children if they are healthy will have no serious health issues. I think there is genuine concern among most to slow the spread of the virus but it has also been used by politicians and media as a means to influence elections, spend staggering amounts of money mostly on pork projects unrelated to the pandemic, and create fear and panic for political purposes. Along with incompetence, that has sowed mistrust among groups of people who were already skeptical of government. And now there is effectively stalemate to convince them to take the vaccine. It has become like the electric car. Not a question of merit but of principle for many people.

Doug,
lot of truth in this post. I feel very similarly. I am a cynic, I know it and I tend to be very independent in my thinking, I hate herd mentality and anytime the press recommends something, I do my own research! That said, when you look at how you put it here, its very logical and true analogies.

Tom

 

[Warrior]

Something like 35K Americans die from the flu every year. And the flu impacts not just those who are elderly or infirmed but even young and healthy folks. There are no mask mandates, lockdowns or hysteria regarding the flu. Those that decide not to take the flu vaccine take the risk and bear the consequences. The efficacy of the COVID vaccine is astounding. Effectively a zero chance that anyone who is vaccinated will die from the virus or variant. Similarly, younger children if they are healthy will have no serious health issues. I think there is genuine concern among most to slow the spread of the virus but it has also been used by politicians and media as a means to influence elections, spend staggering amounts of money mostly on pork projects unrelated to the pandemic, and create fear and panic for political purposes. Along with incompetence, that has sowed mistrust among groups of people who were already skeptical of government. And now there is effectively stalemate to convince them to take the vaccine. It has become like the electric car. Not a question of merit but of principle for many people.

So, so true.

All of it.

I saw a statistical breakdown among those not yet vaccinated as to what would move the needle for them; close to 40% claim if the FDA approves it, they'll get it.

Right.

Sure they will.

Most of the holdouts I know come down in either the "No one is telling me what to do" or the "I don't trust the government/medical community, we're being lied to/played.

Does anyone honestly thing a hold out with the attitude that no one is going to tell him what to do will suddenly jump on board if the FDA approves it?

As you pointed out, there are those who are not getting it out of principle, they wear their anti vaccine label like a badge of honor.

Like my moron cousin.

I'm at the point where you and Tom are; time to turn the page and move on, best of luck to those who don't want to get it, let them take their chances, I'm going on with my life.

Enough is enough.

 

[nysoldiers]

The vaccine is certainly political......87% of Democrats are vaccinated and only 53% of Republicans. But its changing and there has been a large uptick in vaccinations in states like Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi.
The Delta variant is much more infectious than the Flu and much more deadly and debilitating. But as George mentioned 99.9% of the vaccinated who get the break through Delta do not go to the hospital or have serious symptoms.
I also heard today that the standard masks are ineffective and you need to wear the K95 or even double mask the commercial blue one.
As a trustee of a large charitable foundation that donates to many medical institutions I speak to dozens of doctors and researchers so this really interests me.
By the way many in the medical profession think the CDC screwed up with their messaging and recommendations.

 

[jazzeum]

KN 95s are substantially the same as N 95s but only the latter are approved in the US for medical settings. Both filter out 95% of particles.

 

[Desertkiwi]

But COVID is the problem mate

Only if you let it…..

Covid-19 is so much more than an out of control ‘virus’. Its being used to divide society, censor free speech and attack freedom of choice.

I refuse to buy into all the scare tactic's being deployed to create unnecessary fear and anxiety on a daily basis.

As Mark correctly points out there are many other important health issues impacting society that barely rate a mention in the media these days or by our leaders and health officials.

 

[Panzer ace]

I have been a Type 1 diabetic for what seems like a thousand years.

I have literally taken over 50,000 shots of insulin.

In all of that time and all of those shots COVID-19 was the first thing that I encountered that could kill me because of someone else’s choices.

All of the rest were my choices, stroke, heart disease etc. we’re going to kill me because of what I chose to do.

COVID was going to kill me because of other’s choices so I got vaccinated.

Now I sit back and watch as people I know and respect question the validity of a vaccine that probably saved my life.

You might as well question the effectiveness of that same insulin that I have endlessly injected into myself……

 

[The Military Workshop]

For those who have not seen it here is latest info from CDC web page which just changed the masking policy again. Note that 74% of the detected cases, with Delta, were those double vaccinated. Of the 5 people hospitalised, presumably the most serious cases, 4 were double vaccinated. If you are going to try to convince others to get a vax they might be hesitant about I am sure you will balance the information by mentioning this survey that was the basis of a sudden turn around in CDC advice. (Not the full release below but contains the important data).
Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021

Early Release / July 30, 2021 / 70


During July 2021, 469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ≥14 days before exposure). Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%). Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic. Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported. Real-time reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) cycle threshold (Ct) values in specimens from 127 vaccinated persons with breakthrough cases were similar to those from 84 persons who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown (median = 22.77 and 21.54, respectively). The Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 is highly transmissible (1); vaccination is the most important strategy to prevent severe illness and death. On July 27, CDC recommended that all persons, including those who are fully vaccinated, should wear masks in indoor public settings in areas where COVID-19 transmission is high or substantial.* Findings from this investigation suggest that even jurisdictions without substantial or high COVID-19 transmission might consider expanding prevention strategies, including masking in indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status, given the potential risk of infection during attendance at large public gatherings that include travelers from many areas with differing levels of transmission.

I refer to my above post. Saw an article at American Spectator online, by Robert McCain today that indicates that there was a lot more to this outbreak that was not mentioned in most news reports. All I will say is that it involves "Bears" and definitely an out of the ordinary event. Yet it was used by the CDC to change mask wearing policy. Funnily enough that was not the article that I was looking for.

Edited update : This was the article I was actually looking for. No comment from me needed other than isnt this the biggest paper in USA ? Naturally other mainstream media wont be covering it. No prizes for guessing where I got my lead to look for this story.

Exclusive: New York Times quashed COVID origins inquiry - The Spectator World

 

[damian]

I refer to my above post. Saw an article at American Spectator online, by Robert McCain today that indicates that there was a lot more to this outbreak that was not mentioned in most news reports. All I will say is that it involves "Bears" and definitely an out of the ordinary event. Yet it was used by the CDC to change mask wearing policy. Funnily enough that was not the article that I was looking for.

Edited update : This was the article I was actually looking for. No comment from me needed other than isnt this the biggest paper in USA ? Naturally other mainstream media wont be covering it. No prizes for guessing where I got my lead to look for this story.

Exclusive: New York Times quashed COVID origins inquiry - The Spectator World

It is a very odd virus

 

[nysoldiers]

I refer to my above post. Saw an article at American Spectator online, by Robert McCain today that indicates that there was a lot more to this outbreak that was not mentioned in most news reports. All I will say is that it involves "Bears" and definitely an out of the ordinary event. Yet it was used by the CDC to change mask wearing policy. Funnily enough that was not the article that I was looking for.

Edited update : This was the article I was actually looking for. No comment from me needed other than isnt this the biggest paper in USA ? Naturally other mainstream media wont be covering it. No prizes for guessing where I got my lead to look for this story.

Exclusive: New York Times quashed COVID origins inquiry - The Spectator World

Just for information sake as I have studied journalism for over 50 years and read the editorials from over 20 different newspapers each week.....from the most liberal to most conservative. The American Spectator is a far right, conservative news paper known for their conspiracy theories against the liberal press and Democrat party.
No doubt The NY Times editorial position is more liberal as the Wall Street Journal and NY Post are more conservative......just know the leanings of each publication or other news outlets when you consider their content. Unfortunately most media and news outlets have their biases that both color and corrupt the real news.
The story could be true but it requires more research to verify.

 

[tdubel]

Just for information sake as I have studied journalism for over 50 years and read the editorials from over 20 different newspapers each week.....from the most liberal to most conservative. The American Spectator is a far right, conservative news paper known for their conspiracy theories against the liberal press and Democrat party.
No doubt The NY Times editorial position is more liberal as the Wall Street Journal and NY Post are more conservative......just know the leanings of each publication or other news outlets when you consider their content. Unfortunately most media and news outlets have their biases that both color and corrupt the real news.
The story could be true but it requires more research to verify.

Rich
you really hit the nail on the head, as the leanings certainly corrupt the content. It is just a shame that what should be a free independent process that should call the facts out and therefore expose all that is going on has become such political weapons for either side. It is maddening to me. I guess I don't understand it, but I do know that ratings/readership numbers are behind it b/c at the end of the day, they are businesses. They have to run on a profit or they run out! I still believe that if you report the facts without slant you could still be a viable business, but instead of providing the news, most outlets become the news - ie, how many times daily does the NY Times or Fox News make the actual headlines? Too many if you ask me, there in lies a larger issue. IMO - and exacerbated by COVID - our press and politics are bigger issues today than they ever have been. I truly believe they are at the root of creating the divisiveness in this Country on all issues from COVID to Race. Both areas have been weaponized to the extreme for political gain and the losers in this equation are the average American citizens including all of us on this forum. Again, just my opinion, but I don't think I am far off.

Tom

 

[marco55]

I just don't get putting party above country.They can't even sit down and work something out on anything.They also forget that they are suppose to represent the people not the leaders of their parties.
Mark

 

[Warrior]

I just don't get putting party above country.They can't even sit down and work something out on anything.They also forget that they are suppose to represent the people not the leaders of their parties.
Mark

We need a "love" button................this post nails it.

A pandemic in the US has turned into a political debate.

BOTH parties put themselves before country, it's all about them and **** the idiots who vote for either party, we're all just pawns in the game of life.

The vast majority of the people who are unvaccinated are not because of concerns over the vaccine and/or side effects, they are not getting it because they don't trust the government/think they are getting played/think they are being lied to about how severe COVID really is.

As a result, day after day people are getting sick, ending up in the hospital and dying, or suffering long term after effects of COVID.

Totally NEEDLESSLY.

And this pandemic just goes on and on and on and on.

 

[jazzeum]

Many vaccine hesitant people don’t want to get the vaccine because it’s only been approved for emergency use. However, it’s likely that the FDA will fully approve the Pfizer product next month. If so, that should increase the number of vaccinated.

 

[jazzeum]

The WHO has called for a moratorium on booster shots so all countries can vaccinate at least 10% of their population. Israel has been giving boosters and so has Germany. I’m not sure what other countries may be doing so.

Boosters have not been approved in the US but from the little I’ve read people are surreptitiously trying to get them. I’m no expert and I believe a booster is just a third shot. People seem to be lying about whether they’ve received the vaccination previously so they can get the booster. The risk is that if they catch you lying after the fact, your insurance company may deny the claim. Presumably you’d be on the hook for it.

See https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/03...-create-headaches-for-the-health-care-system/

 

[BobZ]

The WHO has called for a moratorium on booster shots so all countries can vaccinate at least 10% of their population. Israel has been giving boosters and so has Germany. I’m not sure what other countries may be doing so.

Boosters have not been approved in the US but from the little I’ve read people are surreptitiously trying to get them. I’m no expert and I believe a booster is just a third shot.

I got vaccinated last summer as part of the Pfizer trial, and they asked me 2 weeks ago if I wanted to participate in their booster trial. Its only open to folks who participated in the original trial. I got jabbed last week. From the literature they gave me, it looks like the booster is just another dose of the vaccine.

I suspect this time I just got the placebo because I had zero reactions. My arm wasn't even sore the next day. However they said folks who got the placebo will get the booster at some point if it proves effective. Literature says around 10,000 people are in the trial.

It was interesting in that they unenrolled me from the original trial (which is still going on) and enrolled me in the booster trial, which is separate.

 

[Warrior]

Many vaccine hesitant people don’t want to get the vaccine because it’s only been approved for emergency use. However, it’s likely that the FDA will fully approve the Pfizer product next month. If so, that should increase the number of vaccinated.

That is correct; Pfizer it tracking for approval on or about September 6th.

We'll see if that moves the needle.

Saw this quote elsewhere and it really speaks to me;

"The sheer amount of people who would rather get an exotic disease that they believe the Chinese bioengineered in a lab over a remarkably effective vaccine created by the U.S. is staggering."

Yes, it is staggering.

 

[jazzeum]

Saw this quote elsewhere and it really speaks to me;

"The sheer amount of people who would rather get an exotic disease that they believe the Chinese bioengineered in a lab over a remarkably effective vaccine created by the U.S. is staggering."

Yes, it is staggering.

To your point, there is a story in today’s Washington Post that, based on a poll conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 53% of the unvaccinated believe getting vaccinated poses a larger risk to their health than getting Covid.

 

[Warrior]

To your point, there is a story in today’s Washington Post that, based on a poll conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 53% of the unvaccinated believe getting vaccinated poses a larger risk to their health than getting Covid.

And what are they basing that on, a podcast they saw on YouTube from a guy in a white coat?

Straight jackets are white too you know................

 

[marco55]

There is a small group of people in the US that just don't believe in vaccinations and no matter what you do they will resist.I think the most unpleasant aspect of all this is that we should be proud of all the people who have risked their lives and worked so hard to help people and be proud as a country how fast we have developed effective vaccines. Yet all they do is fight for control and power.Those ones make me sick to my stomach.
Mark