Delivery day!!!! (3 Viewers)

Well thanks for all this information guys it will come in very handy as my AWi collection grows. do you know any other good books on tthis war or just these early battles. I prefer books with eye witness accounts and good in depth study of the battles rather than unit formations and exact uniform and minute details. If you know any would be a good help.
Iwan
 
This is perfect. Thank you so much.

Trying some more to take advantage of your thorough research, Mike and Noah, if I may:

I do not see mentioning of the Sapper. Do you think I could make him join the Drummer?

Also: are you intending to do both Ranks in "March" position, or could you consider doing one of them in "March Attack"?

You are very welcome Andanna, I have fun doing the research as much as collecting the figure - recently being retired, I now have plenty of time for these kinds of projects. You know, I have searched diligently for any information on the use of sappers in the AWI and have come up empty handed, zip, zero. I think Noah owns many books on the AWI and perhaps he could be of help here. I have been known to "pick" Ken Osen's brains on things like this and he has been a very useful font of information. I am not planning on getting a sapper myself, but if I did I think placing him behind the line with the drummer would look very nice.

I will use a mix of both Marching and Marching Attack in both the lines of the 26-man "company" I eventually plan to have. In reality the British were so well trained and drilled they would have all been in step pretty much. Obviously we don't have that choice unless we selected many, many multiples of the same two or three figures. However, as much as they would have tried to stay in step, during an advance under fire, worried about being hit, seeing comrades wounded, the adrenalin of combat, uneven terrain, etc, etc, I think it would have been difficult to stay in step and I am sure there would be some that wouldn't have been. I have experienced this myself as a former Marine and also as a ACW re-enactor. Like you I have also thought about making one of the two lines all Marching and the other one all in the Marching Attack pose. However, I thought by mixing both lines the angles of the rifles and the similarity of the figures would be more random and perhaps more visually appealing. Will have to wait and see . . . . ..
:smile2: Mike
 
Mike, i cannot tell you often enough how delighted I am you got into collecting First Legion. ^&grin

For some reason, I believe that in the long run, the AWI will not be the only range of FL you will be collecting ....

Thank you for your sage advice. Sounds perfect to me. I will very much control the number of "March Attack" figures in order to create the impresession that you describe.
 
Mike, i cannot tell you often enough how delighted I am you got into collecting First Legion. ^&grin

For some reason, I believe that in the long run, the AWI will not be the only range of FL you will be collecting ....

Thank you for your sage advice. Sounds perfect to me. I will very much control the number of "March Attack" figures in order to create the impresession that you describe.

Here's a diagram with FL AWI reference numbers of what I eventually plan to have as a line company display in a frontal attack. Notice that I have arranged this to depict the rear rank private moving forward to fill in the gap vacated by the front line casulaties . . . .
Mike

I am having trouble attaching my diagram to this thread Andanna. If you send me an email at mestell@charter.net I will send you a copy of my document and idea on what I would like to develop as a British line formation . . .
Mike
 
I do not see mentioning of the Sapper. Do you think I could make him join the Drummer?

You know, I have searched diligently for any information on the use of sappers in the AWI ...

I have been doing the same, going through my sources and can't find a heck of a lot on the pioneers. The little I have seen is mostly that same that we already know, such as the pioneers numbering only about 5-10 per battalion, usually commanded by a pioneer corporal. Most of what I have seen only deals with the uniform and equipment, which First Legion got just right of course.

Also, I can't find anything specific about where they would have been standing when the battalion deployed into line. The battalion line diagrams from Dundas' regulations of 1792 show the pioneers collected a few paces behind the colour party. Though I haven't confirmed it yet, I would think the 1764 regulations, which the British forces used for the most part in the AWI, would have them deployed in a similar fashion.

Andanna, your idea of putting the sapper behind the company formation with the drummer is a good one. That would be the most logical place, as I have not seen anything about the sappers filling in the line of battle. Though it did probably happened at some point.....

Noah
 
Well thanks for all this information guys it will come in very handy as my AWi collection grows. do you know any other good books on tthis war or just these early battles. I prefer books with eye witness accounts and good in depth study of the battles rather than unit formations and exact uniform and minute details. If you know any would be a good help.
Iwan

Iwan, this no exhaustive list, but it does list some excellent books readily available and currently in print.

One of the better overall histories of the AWI is “Almost a Miracle” by John Ferling. It runs about 600 pages and covers most every aspect of the war, its causes, and the immediate fallout of American Independence. I would say this might be your best overall modern history of the war. Ferling is also not an American cheerleader either, as he can be a little harsh with Washington and others.

As far as specific battles, these books would all be highly recommended. In chronological order, starting with “Saratoga” by John. Luzader. He is a former National Park service employee who is very familiar with the battlefield itself. Excellent campaign history from both sides, with a wealth of information included even before the two actual battles of Freeman’s Farm and Bemis Heights. Also includes good coverage of St. Leger’s campaign, Indian activities, and the Battles of Hubbardton and Bennington. Decent maps and a large number of appendices listing order of battle, ect.

Next, the two volume set, “The Philadelphia Campaign” by Thomas J. McGuire. Probably the most detailed account of this campaign, included Battles of Brandywine and Germantown, that I have seen. The two books could use some more maps for sure, but this author probably relies more on first-hand accounts than most authors. Also, keep a good order of battle handy, because he refers to different regiments or even brigades so often it can be hard to follow at times.

Lastly, my absolute favorites, two books by Lawrence Babits, a history professor and archeologist. His two books, “A Devil of a Whipping” and “Long, Obstinate, and Bloody” cover the Battles of Cowpens and Guilford Courthouse respectively. You won’t find another author who delves so deep into historical records such as pension applications and muster rolls. In fact, there are whole sections in each book detailing the makeup of American militia units, such as how many men from which county. So much detail that some of it was a drag to get through. However, with that amount of research, plus insights gained from his archeological work, you won’t find a more detailed analysis of these battles anywhere. Once you get to the actual battles in the narrative, it makes for really great, yet detailed reading.

If you are wanting something specific to the British Army, try the previously mentioned book by Matthew Spring, "With Zeal and With Bayonets Only". This is a good look at the British Army in the AWI, with specific sections on tactics, motivation, and firepower, to name a few. This is no list of uniforms by any means. This book is a very detailed look at specific battles and how the British Army adapted, or failed to do so, based on its experience in the AWI. This is another highly recommended work.

Hope that this helps get you started.

Noah
 
Here's a diagram with FL AWI reference numbers of what I eventually plan to have as a line company display in a frontal attack. Notice that I have arranged this to depict the rear rank private moving forward to fill in the gap vacated by the front line casulaties . . . .
Mike

I am having trouble attaching my diagram to this thread Andanna. If you send me an email at mestell@charter.net I will send you a copy of my document and idea on what I would like to develop as a British line formation . . .
Mike
I have found that is a good way to plan Mike. I do mine in Excel but the principle is the same. To post, why not take a screen shot, save it as an jpg file and load it on photobucket. Then you can simply post the image data for a photo here.
 
Here's a diagram with FL AWI reference numbers of what I eventually plan to have as a line company display in a frontal attack. Notice that I have arranged this to depict the rear rank private moving forward to fill in the gap vacated by the front line casulaties . . . .
Mike

I am having trouble attaching my diagram to this thread Andanna. If you send me an email at mestell@charter.net I will send you a copy of my document and idea on what I would like to develop as a British line formation . . .
Mike

I have found that is a good way to plan Mike. I do mine in Excel but the principle is the same. To post, why not take a screen shot, save it as an jpg file and load it on photobucket. Then you can simply post the image data for a photo here.

Excellent advice Bill - ya taught me something today. Thank you very much . . .

Andanna, here is my planned line formation. Each number represents the FL figure, for example 26 = AWI026. This shows a 26-man "company" advancing in line toward an objective. I have included the three FL casualty figures, leaving corresponding gaps in the second rank - as the first rank took casualties, the second rank private would step up to fill the gap left by their "downed" comrade. That way the first rank was maintained. Hope this is helpful . . .
:smile2: Mike

IMG.jpg
 
Mike, that diagram is well thought out. It took me a second to realize the numbers were the product codes, but then it just clicked. When I picture the formation with the figures in thier places as you have planned out, it really does come alive. Nicely done, sir.

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then I might just steal this little gem!

Bill, thanks to you as well for such a good idea on the technical side.

Noah
 
Mike, that diagram is well thought out. It took me a second to realize the numbers were the product codes, but then it just clicked. When I picture the formation with the figures in thier places as you have planned out, it really does come alive. Nicely done, sir.

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then I might just steal this little gem!

Bill, thanks to you as well for such a good idea on the technical side.

Noah

Thanks Noah and by all means help yourself to it . . .
:smile2: Mike
 
The diagram is more than helpful! Thank you so much, Mike. I think you did an excellent job.

There are two aspects that most likely will require me to adjust the diagram:

First, for the battle of the Brandywine, I am reluctant to use the officers wearing hats. But I have not figured out how to address that dilemma. I might just go with the hats in the interest of visual appeal ....

Secondly, coming with a background in the Napoleonic Wars (or if you prefer the Wars of the Coalitions), I do not struggle so much with a uniform line, meaning using near all privates in marching stance and reducing the number of figures in "March Attack".

But I am enamored with your use of the casualty figures. I am glad you do not charge a royalty for that concept ....^&grin
 
The diagram is more than helpful! Thank you so much, Mike. I think you did an excellent job.

There are two aspects that most likely will require me to adjust the diagram:

First, for the battle of the Brandywine, I am reluctant to use the officers wearing hats. But I have not figured out how to address that dilemma. I might just go with the hats in the interest of visual appeal ....

Secondly, coming with a background in the Napoleonic Wars (or if you prefer the Wars of the Coalitions), I do not struggle so much with a uniform line, meaning using near all privates in marching stance and reducing the number of figures in "March Attack".

But I am enamored with your use of the casualty figures. I am glad you do not charge a royalty for that concept ....^&grin

Don't mention it Andanna, you are very welcome. Have you thought of the possibility of converting the AWI021 and AWI022 figures by replacing their heads with ones wearing bearskins? This would require the altering of four figures in order to get two you liked. I have had Ken Osen do Confederate conversions for me and you can not tell that they have been altered in any way. This allowed me to "stretch" my Rebel battle lines out without having many duplicate looking figures. Of course these were W. Britian figures at half the price of First Legion. These conversions are some of my favorite pieces. Ken does an excellent job and it might be worth your while to discuss this possibility with him.
:smile2: Mike
 
Mike, that does sound very enticing and I will consider it. That of course will result in a price per figure most likely north of USD100.--.

Matt: why don't you help us out here? ^&grin
 
Having just purchased my first five FL figures I havven't thought that far ahead. I know what I would like to see - British 5th Regiment of Foot Light Infantry . . .
:smile2: Mike
 
Excellent advice Bill - ya taught me something today. Thank you very much . . .

Andanna, here is my planned line formation. Each number represents the FL figure, for example 26 = AWI026. This shows a 26-man "company" advancing in line toward an objective. I have included the three FL casualty figures, leaving corresponding gaps in the second rank - as the first rank took casualties, the second rank private would step up to fill the gap left by their "downed" comrade. That way the first rank was maintained. Hope this is helpful . . .
:smile2: Mike
It looks good Mike. Here is an example of my Excel planning for my British Guard Square. I have done simliar versions for French Line attack columns and French Guard attack lines.

The first photo shows colored squares with product codes and background colors coded by manufacturer, mostly FL, and as to whether the items are owned or planned. Actually my planned items shown here are now owned but I did this to finish deciding what I wanted where.

FLSquareLayout1.jpg


The second photo shows a seperate sheet were I layed out photos layed out to the intended positions, just to get a better feel for it. There are many ways to do this and this one worked for me and was rather fun to do.

FLSquareLayout2.jpg
 
What do u guys think the next release
will be about? and when?
Maple Leaf

We should have at least one more large AWI release this year, as Matt said as much in a posting last week. I would look to the end of the summer or thereabouts.

Having just purchased my first five FL figures I havven't thought that far ahead. I know what I would like to see - British 5th Regiment of Foot Light Infantry . . .
:smile2: Mike

When I asked about this a while back, Matt did say that we would have Light Infantry eventually. Whether or not this is the next release, we can only wait and see. I would love to see another British release and a Continental one by year's end. That isn't being greedy is it?:wink2:

Noah
 
Hey Bill, very cool ^&cool. That's a very impressive looking square . . . . I can see how plans like these could be helpful for such a big endeavor . . . .
:smile2: Mike
 
We should have at least one more large AWI release this year, as Matt said as much in a posting last week. I would look to the end of the summer or thereabouts.

When I asked about this a while back, Matt did say that we would have Light Infantry eventually. Whether or not this is the next release, we can only wait and see. I would love to see another British release and a Continental one by year's end. That isn't being greedy is it?:wink2:

Noah

No I don't think that is being greedy at all . . . I think that's being broke :p:tongue:
:smile2: Mike
 
Let's see if we can get our First Legion posts back to some positive stuff and away from the negative:)....anybody got any parcels coming?? right now I'm saving up to get the grey panzer III, and the machine gun team, and at least one or two singles of the pre-order DAK soldiers...Sammy
 

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