Do you you believe? First legion holds a challenge for King and Country? (3 Viewers)

[joesgis]

they're both great in their own way...apples and oranges really

 

[Andanna]

This thread was actually much more entertaining than I expected.

I totally agree with Rudledges post #45. Matt Pavone and his partners took a mighty gamble. I do find the focus on First Legion interesting, as I think other companies such as Figarti make very good product, too. And I am certain Brian from CS, Rick from Figarti and others feel as passionate about their products as Matt feels for his. It appears, though, as if Matt from the beginning refused to limit himself to the "best selling" ranges like western front of WWII or Napoleonic Wars in the West with British involvement. Secondly, I think his positioning was very aggressive from the start, while I think others are more low key (or as somebody said it, content with supplementing KC rather than replacing).

 

[damian]

Well it only took 48 hours I suppose. That must be something of a record.

 

[hajipavt]

Collectors Showcase will eat them both up.......... You just cant beat the price and the quality: Dont flame me im leaving......................

 

[debrito]

FL is not on the same category of K&C. By saying that, I think that the K&C amateurs and the company itself should not be preoccupied about the raising of popularity of the FL products....

 

[maddadicus]

I don't collect FL - I love what they produce but it's just too expensive. I don't think it's a matter of them challenging K & C but more a case of them trying to lure away the more affluent collectors of other companies. K & C have in recent years raised the bar on how toy soldiers are made. Collectors have been encouraged to expect more, so others have had to follow suit and FL are lifting the bar further again with their incredible detail. The fact that they also put out such extensive lines up front is very bold but also very clever. FL may well hurt K & C's bottom line but I think K & C they will continue to do very well due to their passion for the hobby.

Totally agree and could not have said it better..Those big time collectors with disposable resources are really the audience for F/L and not the Joe Sixpack type. F/L is also marketing to the Russian figure collectors offering a bargain price for a similar style. Its like all those never ending buy gold commercials on TV. At several thousand an ounce, they are not preaching to the average TS collector choir. And the reality is that there are more of us, which keeps K/C the company to beat..Michael

 

[Gebhard]

Did I speak too soon!:wink2:

I'd like to pick up on something Mr Gebs said ' Enjoy your poison gentlemen, I know I do ' . Well said indeed. When I buy something for my collection that I've really been looking forward to getting I don't think I ever wonder about competition in the TS market, I just enjoy what I like, day one stuff really isn't it. {sm4}

Rob

Hi Rob ,
I'm with you , the only time competition is thought of is if someone brings it up . To be honest competition is something for the members of the board of the aforementioned Companies to be concerned with , it really has no bearing on my purchases .
I have always bought what makes me happy and what I enjoy viewing , when I'm looking at my collection the last thing on my mind is gee I wonder if such and such sells more figures and the other guys . At the end of the day who really cares except someone who's lively hood is dependent on their sales . I'm on the other end of this equation , I'm more concerned with where I'm gonna get the money to buy all the things i want or where I'm gonna find the room to display them when I do . Regards Gebhard

 

[maddadicus]

Collectors Showcase will eat them both up.......... You just cant beat the price and the quality: Dont flame me im leaving......................

No comparison any more, CS is oversized at 1/28 scale{eek3} and everyone else is around 1/30...Seems like CS is the leader as well as the only mfg.in that scale..WAY TO GO! Michael

 

[jazzeum]

The fact that this thread has drawn the interest that it has shows that competition can't be simply dismissed as a rich man poor man dichotomy. Collecting is not a cheap hobby and continues to become more expensive. Yet, FL continues to draw interest from all kinds of collectors. If it was just a niche company like Maserati, would it be drawing this attention or the kind of attention we see with the Russian figures. The latter I think.

Joe Sixpack has graduated to those imported German beers.

 

[Mitch]

I think all the talk of maserati's and different types of Cars??? is at the heart of the discourse with the two sets of collectors or, the small number who are the most stupidly vociferous to their choosen manufacturer. It airs some belief that one manufacturer is somehow elite and, special whilst the other seems only to be able to cater for the run of the mill.

Lets be honest the problems with these two manufacturers which, this thread may skirt around is basically down to this elitism that some hold, note, I say some. if your happy buying FL and have turned your back on K&C then fine but, one should not post and point out that you must be blind not to see the difference or similar. It reminds me of Plato's work where one emerges from the dark of the cave and see light (buying manufacturer A) whilst, the many remain in the dark only buying manufacturer B.

One of the only practices that the main manufacturers for me could and should possibly, emulate is the length that figures are available to collectors. The way they are able to buy at their own pace is very attractive for the collector. The rest about challenges is only known by the manufacturers sales figures and Andy or Matt probably are not heading for the projects just yet
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Hi Rob ,
I'm with you , the only time competition is thought of is if someone brings it up . To be honest competition is something for the members of the board of the aforementioned Companies to be concerned with , it really has no bearing on my purchases .
I have always bought what makes me happy and what I enjoy viewing , when I'm looking at my collection the last thing on my mind is gee I wonder if such and such sells more figures and the other guys . At the end of the day who really cares except someone who's lively hood is dependent on their sales . I'm on the other end of this equation , I'm more concerned with where I'm gonna get the money to buy all the things i want or where I'm gonna find the room to display them when I do . Regards Gebhard

Hi Gebs,

Yep fully agree with you, my main 'challenges ' are where to get the money, what to buy, and how to carry it home!:wink2: As you say competition is for the producers to think about, I'm out to enjoy the hobby and build up my Normandy beachhead{sm4}. The day I start worrying about competition, what anyone else is buying or whats the trend then I'll give up because it won't be fun anymore. Now if you'll all excuse me there is only two weeks until London and I've got to write the first of dozens of lists!:wink2:^&grin

Rob

 

[fmethorst]

The only thing I can speak to with any certainty is my own experience. I originally started out as a connoisseur collector. I migrated to the mainstream toy soldiers with my purchase of of HB WWII AFVs (a strong interest of mine). These releases led me to K&C which I collected for a number of years. I kept an eye on Figarti as their vehicles looked quite good to me but the ongoing quality control issues and poor figures kept me on the sidelines. A little later Collectors Showcase was a viable option but various aspects of their models didn't appeal to me. Thomas Gunn wasn't a player at that time. When First Legion came onto the scene my first thought was "Will they be compatible with my existing collection?" Obviously they aren't and in the end it didn't matter becuase I simply display them separately, problem solved. I'm one of the people who have migrated almost all of my TS budget to First Legion. This is not because I hate K&C, Figarti, CS, TG etc. It is because I think FL does the best job of combining focussed deep ranges that I have in interest in with solid research, great sculpting and painting. Does this mean I feel I need to disparage the product of other companies? No, there is lots of great stuff being released by all the manufacters and I totally appreciate how they appeal to collectors for various reasons. Like everyone I've made a choice because it gives me the most enjoyment possible from the hobby and at the end of the day this is suppoosed to be relaxing and fun, not stressful and contentious.

 

[johngambale]

We, should let each Toy Maker Create its own Figure's and vehicle's, and Not to Compete with K&C, CS! I want to Collect the Original Size 1/30th Scale, even if the Size is a Little larger than any other Toy Manufacturer! Don't want any Smaller, in the WW2 Toy Collecting! :wink2: CIAO Baby!

 

[arnhem44mad]

just curios as to qhy the mods let this one stay? surely this is a recipe for arguments, I've seen posts deleted for less?

 

[VIRIATO]

I just think were lucky with got so much choice

Choice can be, well, a problem^&grin....

Paulo

 

[Mitch]

I would hope that its down to the fact that we are relatively mature and, can debate and discuss the important issues in the hobby without the inane mine is better than yours and personal abuse that comes from some who collect certain products over others. This has shown it can be done
Mitch

just curios as to qhy the mods let this one stay? surely this is a recipe for arguments, I've seen posts deleted for less?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I think I am an example of the competition. I don't have deep pockets, so when I was choosing NAP artillery sets I got the FL French set because I liked it best of the 3 FL artillery sets and more than the K&C set. It was also the cheapest of the 3 FL sets while the K&C French artillery and add-ons was almost as expensive and IMO not as nice. I got the K&C British and Russian artillery sets because I like them, but price also played a big factor as the prices of the FL British and Russian sets were much more expensive than their French set or the smaller K&C sets. So I ended up with British and Russian sets with fewer figures, but at less cost.

I think it is obvious that any toy soldier producers are competing with each other.

FL going to a dealer system will make it much easier and cheaper for me to get FL figures in ones and twos than ordering direct from FL.

Terry

 

[Rob]

I would hope that its down to the fact that we are relatively mature and, can debate and discuss the important issues in the hobby without the inane mine is better than yours and personal abuse that comes from some who collect certain products over others. This has shown it can be done
Mitch

I think you are quite correct here Mitch, its about maturity and not feeling the need to ram what you collect down other peoples throats all the time, the vast majority of collectors on here practice this all the time and its good to see.

Hopefully the weekly FL V K&C antagonism is fading into the past.

Rob

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I agree 100% that it is ridiculous to critisize others for what they collect from whatever company. I also find it ridiculious to critisize others for suggesting new product ideas to go along with ALL OF OUR EXISTING COLLECTIONS. !!! To answer the question of the thread my personal answer is........... NO. {sm2}

 

[uksubs]

I agree 100% that it is ridiculous to critisize others for what they collect from whatever company. I also find it ridiculious to critisize others for suggesting new product ideas to go along with ALL OF OUR EXISTING COLLECTIONS. !!! To answer the question of the thread my personal answer is........... NO. {sm2}

A forum is about everyone opinion not just your , just because someone does not agree with with you does not make them right or you wrong mate