Isreal (3 Viewers)

[Desertkiwi]

Meanwhile, appeasement works so well, as Neville Chamberlain showed. Nothing will sate Palestinian blood lust except the complete destruction of Israel. Ask them yourself. What do you want? They’ll chant from the river to the sea…blah blah blah. Everyone knows the vast majority of Palestinian “civilians” fully support Hamas AND their warring activities. It collectively gives them a bon##.
And those Iranian inspired chants of “Death To America” don’t exactly give me the warm fuzzies.

So bombing into oblivion doesn’t work? Gee, last two big wars we won outright, the tactic seemed pretty effective. Ask Japan or Germany.

Your disgust is noted. Yawn.

Who said anything about appeasement or is that you're not so subtle dig at the Brit's.....and thanks for the history lesson, its duly noted......

You've missed the point of my previous post entirely, however that seems to be a theme on here?

 

[Poppo]

Turkey has already joined the other side against the West, the West does not want to acknowledge it:

1. Have been occupying northern Cyprus (since 1974), 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees.
2. Calling the Kurds a terrorist organization, denying them a homeland and oppressing them.
3. Committed genocide against the Armenians and Pontian Greeks.
4. Threatening Greece on a daily basis with overflights over the Greek islands.
5. Giving a safe refuge to Hamas on Turkish soil.
6. Threatening Israel with invasion (we can laugh now) good luck with that.
7. Incursions and bombings into Syria and Iraq.
8. Blocking the expansion of NATO.
9. Jailing journalists, lawyers, opposition leaders.
10. Trying to storm Incirlik airbase (yesterday).
11. Best friends with Putin's Russia and Iran.

What a great ally, we need more allies like Turkey!!!

Not completely yet... In the war in Ukraine Turkey's position is ambiguous, but it has also sent military aid to Ukraine, especially powerful drones at the beginning of the Russian invasion.

Perhaps the problem is how NATO is organised, for example I find the unanimous vote for new members incredible: Turkey and Hungary are delaying Sweden's membership.

 

[Combat]

Respectfully, given the demographics on this forum, these comments don’t surprise me. They echo US foreign policy over the last 75 years. The US, and its client states, had all the leverage after the European Civil War that ended in 1945. However, what the future holds for the Great American Empire going forward remains unknown.

You got one thing right about the future being different. American kids have been dumbed down and indoctrinated with lunacy by those that control our educational system. They are dumb as rocks, soft, and narcissist. There is empirical evidence to support it via the test scores. The age of "Idiocracy" is upon us (a prophetic movie). Some consider that "progress" but it's a bleak future being handed down. America is undoubtedly in decline because of the current policies of our government and educators. They are going to reap a whirlwind in the coming years.

 

[Rutledge]

Who said anything about appeasement or is that you're not so subtle dig at the Brit's.....and thanks for the history lesson, its duly noted......

You've missed the point of my previous post entirely, however that seems to be a theme on here?

Ive missed your point? Perhaps you’ve missed this - posted by a friend of mine who lives within a few miles of me. Gee, I wonder why the Palestinians aren’t popular among us Neanderthals…

“Girl on the left is a 2020 grad of local Dunwoody High (Atlanta Ga). Went to Israel and joined IDF. Was stationed to guard the Holy Gate in Jerusalem. Attacked and stabbed to death by 16 yo boy on Saturday”



That’s the kind of war the Palestinians want. Spare me the cries of oh the poor Palestinians.

 

[JL01]

One question i always wonder about is can one logically oppose support of Israel, let's say based along the lines of George Washington's Farewell Address warning about foreign entanglements, and still support and love people of the Jewish faith, wherever they may exist?

 

[zblang]

As for Israel genuinely truly trying to help displaced Palestinians work towards self-determination that's complete bollocks. They've illegally continued to set up Israeli settlements beyond their 1967 borders with absolutely no intervention from the UN or the international community......the system is broken.

Illegally? please share what you base that on.

maybe some history and facts over hyperbole!

The only binding resolution of international law, a resolution which has never been countermanded to this very day, is the July 1922 Mandate fort Palestine. Adopted by the League of Nations, that resolution recognized the “historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.” It called for the creation of a Jewish national homeland anywhere west of the Jordan River.

Once the League of Nations was disbanded and the United Nations formed in its stead, the international community agreed to maintain all agreements and not “alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments to which Members of the United Nations may respectively be parties” (Article 80, UN Charter) This provision wasn’t inserted by accident; it was known as “the Jewish People’s clause” at the time it was adopted in 1945 in order to enshrine the 1922 Mandate into international law.

The Mandate for Palestine adopted by the League of Nations was the last legally binding document delineating regional borders. Article 5 of the Mandate explicitly states, “The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.”

The legality of the 1922 Mandate was adopted that same year by the U.S. Congress in H.J. Res. 360 and signed by President Warren Harding. The newly created Arab country of Jordan attacked Israel in 1948 seeking to annihilate its inhabitants and illegally occupied Judea and Samaria until 1967. That year, Israel won back the territory originally allocated for a Jewish state as part of the 1922 League of Nations agreement.

once that land was allocated for the Jewish state by the binding charter of the U.N., it cannot be rescinded without Israel’s consent.

There is no such thing as “pre-67 borders.” They were merely 1949 armistice lines between Israel and neighboring countries after they launched an illegal war in an attempt to exterminate the Jews in Israel.

sooooooo - the illegal act, was Jordan OCCUPYING the west bank!

 

[JL01]

Illegally? please share what you base that on.

maybe some history and facts over hyperbole!

The only binding resolution of international law, a resolution which has never been countermanded to this very day, is the July 1922 Mandate fort Palestine. Adopted by the League of Nations, that resolution recognized the “historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.” It called for the creation of a Jewish national homeland anywhere west of the Jordan River.

Once the League of Nations was disbanded and the United Nations formed in its stead, the international community agreed to maintain all agreements and not “alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments to which Members of the United Nations may respectively be parties” (Article 80, UN Charter) This provision wasn’t inserted by accident; it was known as “the Jewish People’s clause” at the time it was adopted in 1945 in order to enshrine the 1922 Mandate into international law.

The Mandate for Palestine adopted by the League of Nations was the last legally binding document delineating regional borders. Article 5 of the Mandate explicitly states, “The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.”

The legality of the 1922 Mandate was adopted that same year by the U.S. Congress in H.J. Res. 360 and signed by President Warren Harding. The newly created Arab country of Jordan attacked Israel in 1948 seeking to annihilate its inhabitants and illegally occupied Judea and Samaria until 1967. That year, Israel won back the territory originally allocated for a Jewish state as part of the 1922 League of Nations agreement.

once that land was allocated for the Jewish state by the binding charter of the U.N., it cannot be rescinded without Israel’s consent.

There is no such thing as “pre-67 borders.” They were merely 1949 armistice lines between Israel and neighboring countries after they launched an illegal war in an attempt to exterminate the Jews in Israel.

sooooooo - the illegal act, was Jordan OCCUPYING the west bank!

Power politics.

 

[zblang]

additionally,

Jordan’s occupation of the area west of the Jordan River was never recognized. To the extent there is an Arab Palestinian state it is the modern state of Jordan, which already sucked up 77 percent of the original Mandate of Palestine allocated for a Jewish state under the first plan of the Balfour Declaration.

 

[JL01]

I highly recommend Darryl Cooper's (MartyrMade) multi-episode podcast, "Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem." for a balanced and comprehensive history of the creation of the State of Israel. One of the best podcasts out there.

 

[marco55]

As they say cut the head off the snake which is Iran. I'm not saying that would solve the problem ,maybe for a while but not forever. I get tired of hearing that the Israelis are occupying someone else's land. That is their land given to them by God. How many countries did the muslims invade and occupy and still do. Are they going to leave those lands. I feel nothing for the Palestinians (except the children) as they gloated on October 7th. The Israelis gave the civilians a chance to leave, Did the Russians give the Ukrainians a chance to leave? I don't hear all these whimpering fools complain about that.
Mark
Mark

 

[Rutledge]

One question i always wonder about is can one logically oppose support of Israel, let's say based along the lines of George Washington's Farewell Address warning about foreign entanglements, and still support and love people of the Jewish faith, wherever they may exist?

No. “Loving Jews” but being in favor of Israel’s demise is nothing but a slight of hand. You know, I love my neighbors, personally, but I hate their house which is why I burned it down. How’s that for “logic”?

The land “occupied” by Jews is hardly a sliver when compared to the vast area occupied by Arabs and Muslims. What’s the logic behind their total intolerance, such that even a minuscule portion of an enormous territory cannot be shared?

 

[tdubel]

You've missed the point of my post entirely.......which was to break the circle of violence and the status-quo there has to be some serious intervention. Neither Israel nor the US can achieve this alone, hence my comments about the 'Arab League' involvement.

To me the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a huge diplomatic failure and has always had the treat of developing into a much wider conflict hanging over it. The thought of that happening is deeply concerning and will make recent conflicts in the region seem like a walk in the park.

I never said anything about Israel not being allowed to defend itself, far from it....but its going to take way more than guns and bombs to solve this issue and if you don't get that then that's your problem.

Because someone disagrees with your view doesn't mean they missed your point, it is actually quite the contrary. I disagree with your point and I do think there is and always will be a "place" for violence. The response you are seeing by Israel is that time and place. When you get to the point where you have been attacked by terrorist with an act of war and I would argue total indecency, you have reached that point. If you are going to respond in a definitive nature, then it is going to be violent, and I strongly believe in achieving the objectives you are seeking. In this case, the best way to prevent another Hamas terrorist war attack is to eliminate the problem and that is going to take a dedicated and definitive amount of guns and bombs. When that objective is achieved and Hamas is eradicated, maybe the innocent Palestinians who are left will elect peaceful leaders and they can be rebuilt with the help of the World, much like Germany and Japan were.

TD

 

[Desertkiwi]

Illegally? please share what you base that on.

maybe some history and facts over hyperbole!

The only binding resolution of international law, a resolution which has never been countermanded to this very day, is the July 1922 Mandate fort Palestine. Adopted by the League of Nations, that resolution recognized the “historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.” It called for the creation of a Jewish national homeland anywhere west of the Jordan River.

Once the League of Nations was disbanded and the United Nations formed in its stead, the international community agreed to maintain all agreements and not “alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments to which Members of the United Nations may respectively be parties” (Article 80, UN Charter) This provision wasn’t inserted by accident; it was known as “the Jewish People’s clause” at the time it was adopted in 1945 in order to enshrine the 1922 Mandate into international law.

The Mandate for Palestine adopted by the League of Nations was the last legally binding document delineating regional borders. Article 5 of the Mandate explicitly states, “The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.”

The legality of the 1922 Mandate was adopted that same year by the U.S. Congress in H.J. Res. 360 and signed by President Warren Harding. The newly created Arab country of Jordan attacked Israel in 1948 seeking to annihilate its inhabitants and illegally occupied Judea and Samaria until 1967. That year, Israel won back the territory originally allocated for a Jewish state as part of the 1922 League of Nations agreement.

once that land was allocated for the Jewish state by the binding charter of the U.N., it cannot be rescinded without Israel’s consent.

There is no such thing as “pre-67 borders.” They were merely 1949 armistice lines between Israel and neighboring countries after they launched an illegal war in an attempt to exterminate the Jews in Israel.

sooooooo - the illegal act, was Jordan OCCUPYING the west bank!

For the record, the origins of the state of Israel and subsequent conflicts with their Arab neighbours was a core subject I took in History back in High school so I have a pretty good idea of the history, however thanks for sharing its appreciated.

Also I have close friends living in Israel and many Jewish and Arab friends here, heck I even attended the Kadimah Jewish school in Auckland for a period. That's how close my association is with my Jewish friends and I'm also aware Israeli's themselves are divided over the Palestinian issue and have been for sometime.

In that sense I have a very good handle on the present situation over there, hence my previous posts.

I have made comment because I care.....

 

[marco55]

Muslims are never happy unless they are totally dominant. I don't know if this is still true but usually a non-muslim cannot own a horse, their houses are to be lower than any muslim, special taxes, cannot own a gun (I wonder why),hardly have any rights. That's why most Balkan states hate them(especially Turks) and threw them out after they regained their independence after 4-500 years of being under their yoke.
Mark

 

[zblang]

Why is there never talk of the nearly 1,000,000 Jews displaced forcibly from Arab countries? Do those Jews also have the “right of return” that the Palestinians claim?

Why are Palestinians the ONLY multigenerational refugees? Refugees are absorbed by other countries and they stop being refugees. Multi generations flies in the face of the word. The reason is no one will take them. They are better pawns.

 

[jazzeum]

I’m not going to get into legal technicalities or drill down into the historical details because I’m not that strong on them but Israeli settlers, aided by the police and the IDF, have made life difficult for the Palestinian residents of the West Bank and thrown them off their land. They have blockaded Gaza and generally made life difficult for Palestinians. No one should have to live this way. None of us would accept that. At the same time right wingers have invaded the Al-Aksa Mosque, which is holy to Muslim people.

Netenyahu’s governments have never had any interest in a two state and has been quite content to play Hamas off the Palestinian Authority and now it’s come back to bite them.

You may get rid of Hamas but unless there’s a homeland for Palestinians things will continue as before. In addition, by getting rid of Hamas in the way they’re doing it you are just more enemies that will engender future Hamases.

 

[zblang]

Brad -
What’s the option other than blockade? Allow terrorists to freely move in and out of Israel? Allow Iran to bring in weapons more than they do?

And shame on Jews going to TEMPLE MOUNT!!! as it was called 1,000 yrs before Islam even existed. You know - the site of the holy temple!!! Holy to Muslims - after they killed Jews and took it! Tale as old as time. (Ps - you know how many time Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran? NONE! Must be a very important city in Islam

 

[zblang]

Much to do with the Palestinians is simple - you made your bed, lie in it

It’s like feeling bad for someone who murders his parents and is found crying bc he’s an orphan

 

[jazzeum]

Zach,

It strikes me you’re a Netenyahu supporter, with an explanation or justification for everything he does. I find him abhorrent and he will take the fall for October 7. Labor never recovered from the Yom Kippur War and I hope the same happens to Likud.

 

[zblang]

I admittedly have no clue about Israeli domestic politics.
But, if what I’ve posted conveys a love of Netanyahu and you disagree with it - please tell me what in any of my posts isn’t factual