K&c Armor: Wrong Scale? (1 Viewer)

[Old Tanker 7.5]

I just bought an HB panther and noticed it was alot bigger in scale than my Wittman Tiger from K&C. Well have I got news for the forum, after two hours of measuring the K&C Tiger there is absolutely no doubt that it is too small for K&C figure scale. In fact the figures and the tanks are two distinctly different scales altogethor. The figures are really a 1/27th scale, not 1/30th and not 1/32nd, While the armor is an exact 1:30th scale.: we collect 1/27th figures and are sold 1/30th scale armor. ( see: http://www.jimbobwan.com/scalcalc.htm ) and punch in all the details yourselves.

Basically K&C figures are massively oversized for the armor, a whopping 10%. Thats why the armor looks so small all the time. Now the real question is why does K&C do this? Answer please....

 

[jazzeum]

I think if you do a search, you'll find that this has been discussed before and K and C has acknowledged that there may have been some scale shrinkage. By saying in the November dispatches, that the Tunisian Tiger will be the "biggest," I believe they're saying they've tried to address this concern.

I'm sure Andy would answer if he could but he's traveling for the next couple of weeks (Texas, London and Paris).

 

[Old Tanker 7.5]

I have over 5000.00 worth of K&C, and just now Andy will " address the concern ". Will he trade in my badly scaled figures or armor? What gives? New armor won't fit with the old armor? So now I need to buy all new armor? Im feeling very uncomfortable about all of this just now.

 

[Wraith]

Just out of curiosity, which K&C figure(s) did you use for the scale conversion?

 

[Old Tanker 7.5]

I used my Sepp Dietrich and winter shooting ( standing german ) with kar98. The figures , standing straight, themselves are just over 2.5 inches in height, putting them exactly at 1/28th scale. My god I can't believe I didn't do this years ago. I love the paint and figures, but why all this change of scale all the time? I wish he would choose a scale and stick to it, but then we wouldn't haveto " freshen up " our collections now would we?

 

[Harrytheheid]

Its just my tuppence-worth of course, but if I wanted everything in my collection to be "just-so", then I'd start collecting models manufactured by Dragon, Tamiya, or any of the other scale model company's and super-detail them with the after-market items that are readily available.
As things stand, I'm personally fairly comfortable (not 100%, but close) with K&C's TOY SOLDIER products, warts'n'all.
BTW, OT7.5 - how tall was Sepp and the sniper figure in real-life?
Regards
H

 

[jazzeum]

I have over 5000.00 worth of K&C, and just now Andy will " address the concern ". Will he trade in my badly scaled figures or armor? What gives? New armor won't fit with the old armor? So now I need to buy all new armor? Im feeling very uncomfortable about all of this just now.

First, your quoted language is my interpretation, not his. Second, I thought this was a hobby, not a business and third, what you decide to do with your collection, past, present and future is your concern. However, I do note that if you want to sell all your old stuff, you'll probably make a nice return

 

[Old Tanker 7.5]

Jazzeum your reply: I thought this was a hobby not a business, is ironic with warbrids at 850.00 and all of us soon to haveto buy new armor that actually fits our figures, hmm and to Andy this isn't a business? Who are you kidding?

 

[damian]

Maybe you should investigate the NMA tiger
Regards
Damian

 

[jazzeum]

My comment regarding "business" was that as collectors most of us are not necessarily looking at it that way although, of course, you're right it is a business to the manufacturers and dealers: our purchases are their lifeblood.

As far as "having" to purchase new vehicles to replace older ones, that's a personal decision. I'm quite content with the older ones, particularly the WS 43.

 

[rws591]

Jazzeum your reply: I thought this was a hobby not a business, is ironic with warbrids at 850.00 and all of us soon to haveto buy new armor that actually fits our figures, hmm and to Andy this isn't a business? Who are you kidding?

How is the fact that a model is 850 ironic, Andy creates a stunningly beautiful product out of wood and sells it for $850 is see no irony here.

 

[Jim5615]

Until now K&C has been a class by itself with 1/30 scale. Now that others are taking on that scale, and making a point of making vehicles correct to scale, K&C has no choice but to meet the challenge. I don't think shrinkage was a surprise, I think it was ignored up till now. That being said, I still think the vehicles Andy has created are works of art and, so long as no figure is right against a vehicle, the scale is close enough. I wouldn't trade or sell mine.

 

[steel wheels]

I have to agree with you regarding the size of many K&C figures. Take for instance, the American soldier holding the Bazooka from the Battle Of The Bulge series. If this scale is real life, then this dude is 8 feet tall! Size him up against the commander of the winter M10 tank destroyer, and the commander is is a third smaller. It's like Wilt Chamberlain and Tom Thumb. I have found that the Frontline WW-2 figures are perfect size for most tanks in the 1/30 to 1/32 scale models. Still the K&C figures are so good, that I have to overlook their size at times.

 

[Old Tanker 7.5]

Im not so impressed by the new MarketGarden range, I'll get one of the jeeps but thats it, Im branching off, I've got enough K&C anyhow. I really like my new HB tank and pre-ordered some of Collectors Showcase Arnhem sets too. I hope those manufacturers can stick to one scale at least, this is just too much now Andy conceding that all of the prior tanks were mis-scaled and coming out with correctly scaled armor pieces? Strange, I don't like it.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Maybe you should investigate the NMA tiger
Regards
Damian

Baaaaad Damian,
Is it my suspicious nature? Or is this a cryptic reference to a storm in a teacup thread that was nailed around 6 months ago?

Cheers
H

 

[jazzeum]

As I said earlier in this thread that is my interpretation of Andy's statement. As far as your liking this or that to each his own. As far as CS goes, I believe they've had some scale issues themselves although that may be just confined to the figures. Their vehicles do look very nice however.

 

[Harrytheheid]

As I said earlier in this thread that is my interpretation of Andy's statement. As far as your liking this or that to each his own. As far as CS goes, I believe they've had some scale issues themselves although that may be just confined to the figures. Their vehicles do look very nice however.

As far as your liking this or that to each his own.

Suppose that includes Warbirds as well.......
Only kiddin'. I've had a real close look at the Swordfish and I openly admit that it is stunning. I still can't justify the price to myself, but I do now understand why so many collectors love them.
Peace
H

 

[OzDigger]

I just bought an HB panther and noticed it was alot bigger in scale than my Wittman Tiger from K&C. Well have I got news for the forum, after two hours of measuring the K&C Tiger there is absolutely no doubt that it is too small for K&C figure scale. In fact the figures and the tanks are two distinctly different scales altogethor. The figures are really a 1/27th scale, not 1/30th and not 1/32nd, While the armor is an exact 1:30th scale.: we collect 1/27th figures and are sold 1/30th scale armor. ( see: http://www.jimbobwan.com/scalcalc.htm ) and punch in all the details yourselves.

Basically K&C figures are massively oversized for the armor, a whopping 10%. Thats why the armor looks so small all the time. Now the real question is why does K&C do this? Answer please....

My understanding is that K & C used plastic kits as a starting point for their vehicles. And as these kits were either 1/32 or 1/35 scale they were to small compared to the 1/30+ figures.

I suspect K & C continued to make the smaller scaled tanks because is was easier than starting a mold from base measurements to 1/30 scale. Together with the fact that most of their earlier collectors didn't know the vehicles were the wrong size and bought them anyway.

This all changed with new companies like Honour Bound doing the right thing by building tanks from scratch to the correct scale. There were also a number of disgruntled collectors that knew the K & C vehicles were the wrong scale and wanted things improved

But wait there's more - several collectors have noted that some of the newer K & C figures in the WWII ranges are closer to 1/32 scale which will look like midgets compared to the BIG Tunisian Tiger.

 

[sceic2]

I respect all the opinions expressed by Oldtanker and the others on this thread. My position is that if I wanted to be, as Leadman has referred to them as, a "bolt counter," I would collect exact scale 1:35 plastic models. For me, K&C, NMA, HB and all the others that are larger than 1:35 are close enough for me. If I wanted exactness, I guess I would use a micrometer and a set of calipers before every purchase decision. I don't choose to do that and I don't believe that I am alone. This hobby is about the art, interpetation and beauty of the models, not the precision to exact scale.

We have discussed this issue at length over the short life of this forum and I believe that makers such as K&C, NMA, HB and all the others do pay attention to our comments and do try to make their product better. I have invested a considerable amount of money in this hobby and I am a "happy camper." I believe that a great number of other collectors are also.

Now having said that, expressing concerns is valuable to the hobby and I respect everyone who does so and I encourage everyone to speak out.

And NMA, about those tankers on the new Tigers, man are they small. I just put them back in the box and display the tanks without them.

 

[Harrytheheid]

I respect all the opinions expressed by Oldtanker and the others on this thread. My position is that if I wanted to be, as Leadman has referred to them as, a "bolt counter," I would collect exact scale 1:35 plastic models. For me, K&C, NMA, HB and all the others that are larger than 1:35 are close enough for me. If I wanted exactness, I guess I would use a micrometer and a set of calipers before every purchase decision. I don't choose to do that and I don't believe that I am alone. This hobby is about the art, interpetation and beauty of the models, not the precision to exact scale.

We have discussed this issue at length over the short life of this forum and I believe that makers such as K&C, NMA, HB and all the others do pay attention to our comments and do try to make their product better. I have invested a considerable amount of money in this hobby and I am a "happy camper." I believe that a great number of other collectors are also.

Now having said that, expressing concerns is valuable to the hobby and I respect everyone who does so and I encourage everyone to speak out.

And NMA, about those tankers on the new Tigers, man are they small. I just put them back in the box and display the tanks without them.

This reflects my collecting philosophy as well. I'm not saying that members shouldn't express concerns, of course they should. All I'm saying is that I, personally, am fairly happy with my collection and I would suggest that the majority of other members are happy with theirs too. Otherwise, why else would we continue with the hobby?
Cheers
H