Leave K&C Alone... (2 Viewers)

[TomNT]

Sorry guys, I just wanted post #200 in this one.

It has been interesting though.

Bugger, I missed out by one! {sm4}

Well done Jason, you'll have to shout yourself a beer though...:wink2:

Tom

 

[Panzer ace]

Bugger, I missed out by one! {sm4}

Well done Jason, you'll have to shout yourself a beer though...:wink2:

Tom

Tom:

Not sure it is worthy of a beer, but I think I will have one anyways.

It is about 11:00pm in California, just the right time too.

In all seriousness, some really good points have been made on all sides of the discussion and I think the forum has come a long way as can be seen in the civility in the majority of this thread.

-Jason

 

[Desertkiwi]

Very true Brad and it's the way many forum members go about being critique on a product. They either be down right rude in what they say or they constantly bring up the same old issues under the guise of "free speech". The forum is supposed to be a fun place and what some forum members don't seem to get is, that by constantly being repetitive on the same old topics, they are making this forum unpleasant. Sure, you can set you settings to "ignore" so you don't see certain members posts or you don't have to read them or go into the thread but why should that be necessary. If you think there is something wrong with a product, then by all means say it but why must you say it over and over again. You can also criticise a product in a friendly manner as if you are chatting with mates around a barby, dinner party or at the pub etc. If they don't agree with you then that's cool, you have your opinion and they have there's, but move on after having your say as continuing to argue is not going to get you anywhere. All it's going to do is what's happening in this thread, another endless groundhog day!

It's no wonder why many new forum members shake there heads in disbelief when they read the constant repetitive criticism on the same old topics. I agree with wayne556517, it's mind boggling that this thread has attracted so many posts and views compared to what an awesome dio might attract.

Tom

Tom mate, where on earth have you been hiding these last few pages.....we've missed ya!! No doubt chasing stray Croc's out of your backyard again{sm5}^&grin. Great post brother. {sm4}

Great post

 

[Mitch]

I put it to you Rob that I could find thousands of insults from the same old core of K&C collectors openly and in PM against any critique. I enjoy reading these posts about whining and repetitiveness as this is exactly what a number complain about in terms of those who attack those who dare bring up faults with K&C. the way then they react, is very well documented. People mention new collectors but, its as easy to say when new collectors or new members read what goes on they would equally shake their heads in disbelief at the way that the those who want fun act.

Seems the street of respect and what have you and others decry is to some very one way. Would you care to have some posts brought from some fun loving guys that show the respect and the fun guys want? Its lip service to respect if you don't like critique or can't accept it then look at yourself (collective) and ask why does it bother me so. As many seem to be saying well, a handful anyway this is toy soldiers. Contact your manufacturer and ask them to stop making the errors that people interested in history know about or market the product as not real, based on what I like and no biggy if I and my staff get it wrong tough most will buy it anyway!!!

I have critiqued sets and still bought them the mentality exists that your either full on pro everything K&C does or sadly your against them... Please the absurdity in that continued proposition is absurd beyond recognition. That is why the buy what you like or don't is a misnomer. You buy what you have on offer and what you can accept in terms of historical accuracy I don't buy for aesthetics or I could buy a much cheaper set from other manufacturers.

Same old forum issues with the same old people and a few new ones to boot. seems in that type of scenario everyone is guilty and should not believe their hands are clean.

Not in the least bit surprised that the same old people love to get involved in these discussions rather than talk toy soldiers etc as its the norm and the fabric of the forum. People love to decry this or that but, it is actually the decry they love the topic is incidental.
Mitch

Poppo, with respect my friend you appear to suggest Mr Warrior is making a sweeping statement without evidence whilst you make one yourself re K&C collectors? I put it to you that if you search thoroughly you will no doubt find posts that are merely insults aimed at Andy.K&C, its collectors, dealers and even people who sell on ebay, Never mind complaints!

Rob

 

[TomNT]

Tom mate, where on earth have you been hiding these last few pages.....we've missed ya!! No doubt chasing stray Croc's out of your backyard again{sm5}^&grin. Great post brother. {sm4}

Great post

Thanks Toddy and nah, no croc's out in the backyard, the herd of water buffalo scared em off! {sm4}

Tom

 

[larso]

"I enjoy reading these posts about whining and repetitiveness as this is exactly what a number complain about in terms of those who attack those who dare bring up faults with K&C."

You are fortunate to enjoy repetitive/complaining posts. The clear message of this thread is, many do not.

 

[Rob]

Mitch,

I'd like to answer a few of your points if I may. Sorry for my tardiness here but just back from my run, warm out there today!

First off we may still be at cross purposes here. You seem to be under the impression that I and others on this thread do not want any criticism of K&C under any circumstances, this could not be further from the truth as I've said several times already (I'll come back to your same old people remark). If you start a thread entitled ' 10 Reasons I hate/will not buy the new 25 pounder ' then not only is that totally your absolute right to free speech but others should not swamp your thread with ' You are wrong Mitch' or rah rah posts. MY POINT is that if someone starts the opposite type of thread in which they celebrate it then you and others should have the courtesy to allow this without the boorish behaviour I have just described. I do think it is a bit of a myth (perhaps to help fuel the bitterness and hatred of others)that people are not allowed to raise criticisms about K&C.

Secondly you describe the ' same old people' (obviously including me here) who make the same argument all the time. But thats obvious isn't it??? I mean some of us are not going to be bullied out of our opinion and also it can be turned around in that its the same old people who may appear to have an agenda and want to spoil the enjoyment of others.

Finally as for poisonous pm's or posts well many of us have had them haven't we? Some with just insults and some with veiled threats of all sorts, but these days its water off a ducks back. Its all so childish and cannot be taken seriously, here is a perfect example.For quite a period I was a member of ' the other forum ' (who we dare not speak the name^&grin) and to be honest I was made to feel very welcome and got on with several folk there, however I did end up getting in too many rows and left and have not looked in again in months. NOW I get loads of pms from folk telling me all thats going on there. Apparently 'I'm on the pay roll' 'I'm a Spy' etc etc, apparently another member is accusing me of stealing benefit from the government whilst work for Andy' !! {eek3} As someone once said (maybe you) You can't make this **** up! Sometimes these forums are like kindergarten in the type of stuff that goes on, other times they are really enjoyable and fun place to be.


All I'm saying Mitch is criticize what you like but let others enjoy their own threads in peace.

Rob

 

[IONA]

Hi Rob
Whats the other forum
Cheers Scott

 

[Rob]

Hi Rob
Whats the other forum
Cheers Scott

Hi Scott,

Its the Canadian Toy Soldier forum mate. I was joking about not naming it because I don't think the mods allow talk of what goes on there here.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

What you do here is open yourself to abuse. Nobody can say some of the things you say have been raised about you if you don't mention them so, it may be a valid reason for keeping mum about private issues. I don't think its nasty to say that we all know there are some wack jobs on the internet. Your need to bring them up only aggravates those who believe you may be a benefit cheat or on the pay role etc. You are able to dish it out so, you must expect it back. The point is who cares I am a Nazi apparently has my life changed No. The notion between forum for toys and military miniatures and personal life has blurred for some and may be why their is an inability to rationally discuss the products.

I don't care if someone waves the K&C flag or any manufacturer's flag all day long in every thread just as I don't care if someone is constantly saying the products are wrong or, even that they are over priced rubbish. It just does not tire me or even provoke an emotion as I don't care they are military miniatures and we are here on a forum where we are able to discuss everything toy soldiers.

If someone starts a thread either for or against an item are you really saying that if its positive then only positive things can be said? That my dear Rob is rather childish and negates mature debate. Its saying I only want what I want to hear in a thread and by who I want to hear saying it and nothing else!!

I enjoyed the forthcoming dispatches threads you ran I know some did not but, who cares I am not on here to post what people like I want to add what I want to add and everyone should and, should not be concerned that some don't think its worthy or run to Matron wailing Waaaambulance!!! (You need to have seen the Kid to get that)

If someone wants to say my repaints are crap or my scenes are then let them so long as they can back it up ain't going to make me stop building or painting and it does not spoil the thread. The only line I have on here is in relation to the dio's/scenes people put on. Everyone is at different levels and needs support. everything else is fair game and if someone wants to say something personal they can have it back with spades or trying to stay in the rules of the forum tiny little seaside spades!!

people themselves take the issues personally if I say FL or K&C product X is rubbish it really must mean I am calling your wife fat!!! Its just so obvious that when someone says they don't like Gordon's dio's that the real meaning is what I have said so, get on your high horse and defend the manufacture.

As I said the other day the notion that one has to say an opinion once and move on is unrealistic when so many people post on an issue with different ideas comments etc that on a discussion forum you then reply with an additional point based on what you think. That is debate and discussion. In not one thread anywhere on here have I ever seen anyone just say this is crap post after post or, anyone say its great posts after post. Its just how certain individuals emotionally respond to the post and what is said and then importantly, who says it that counts.

You said respect everyone's posts and opinions and that is absolutely correct but, it has to be a two way street with everyone not self assuming they are in a somehow better position on the forum to decide whose opinions and comments are worthy of respect and whose are not.

The horse glue, tall poppy, agenda's and anything is just a waste on me I want to discuss the products and the history the rest we have discussed in PM on many occasions is not even relevant.

I mean even the thread title is a ''Rattle to far''

I also don't think I can take credit for the make up stuff that was said long before I used it here. Now, that you mentioned the 25ILB I want to hear your opinions about it
Mitch

QUOTE=Rob;597413]Mitch,

I'd like to answer a few of your points if I may. Sorry for my tardiness here but just back from my run, warm out there today!

First off we may still be at cross purposes here. You seem to be under the impression that I and others on this thread do not want any criticism of K&C under any circumstances, this could not be further from the truth as I've said several times already (I'll come back to your same old people remark). If you start a thread entitled ' 10 Reasons I hate/will not buy the new 25 pounder ' then not only is that totally your absolute right to free speech but others should not swamp your thread with ' You are wrong Mitch' or rah rah posts. MY POINT is that if someone starts the opposite type of thread in which they celebrate it then you and others should have the courtesy to allow this without the boorish behaviour I have just described. I do think it is a bit of a myth (perhaps to help fuel the bitterness and hatred of others)that people are not allowed to raise criticisms about K&C.

Secondly you describe the ' same old people' (obviously including me here) who make the same argument all the time. But thats obvious isn't it??? I mean some of us are not going to be bullied out of our opinion and also it can be turned around in that its the same old people who may appear to have an agenda and want to spoil the enjoyment of others.

Finally as for poisonous pm's or posts well many of us have had them haven't we? Some with just insults and some with veiled threats of all sorts, but these days its water off a ducks back. Its all so childish and cannot be taken seriously, here is a perfect example.For quite a period I was a member of ' the other forum ' (who we dare not speak the name^&grin) and to be honest I was made to feel very welcome and got on with several folk there, however I did end up getting in too many rows and left and have not looked in again in months. NOW I get loads of pms from folk telling me all thats going on there. Apparently 'I'm on the pay roll' 'I'm a Spy' etc etc, apparently another member is accusing me of stealing benefit from the government whilst work for Andy' !! {eek3} As someone once said (maybe you) You can't make this **** up! Sometimes these forums are like kindergarten in the type of stuff that goes on, other times they are really enjoyable and fun place to be.


All I'm saying Mitch is criticize what you like but let others enjoy their own threads in peace.

Rob[/QUOTE]

 

[IONA]

Hi Scott,

Its the Canadian Toy Soldier forum mate. I was joking about not naming it because I don't think the mods allow talk of what goes on there here.

Rob

Cheers Rob:salute::
Scott

 

[Mitch]

Scott...

Its like the ''Scottish play'' (hope you have seen Blackadder) were not allowed to mention it in real without our fingers crossed and then do a little silly dance to rid ourselves of the ''wee'' demons!!!LOL
Mitch

Hance i Rob
Whats the other forum
Cheers Scott

 

[Rob]

Mitch,

Again we have crossed wires possibly, did not mean to give the impression that I give a flying fajita what some fruit loop makes up about me, no its actually funny but also sad as its a clear indication of how absurd things can get on these forums. (I wouldn't mind working for Andy or Mike...if I could take my work home with me^&grin-but the commute would be HELL!!) By the by, who called you a Nazi???

As for another point you made surely you can see its perfectly reasonable to ask someone to make their point and move on, otherwise you appear to asking for licence to continue to return to your point in an effort to spoil the thread should you choose. Now if that's what you are saying you want then fine, but you've been around here long enough to know that the mods and collectors simply won't allow that to happen, you then have little grounds to complain when they do.

I have stated several times Mitch that respect should be both ways and as such if you are suggesting I don't think it should be is unrealistic.

I think you know really what we are asking here Mitch, its not rocket science, whilst you of course have the freedom to ignore it and do as you please , you cannot then rile when the mods step in to bring a halt.

Finally and hand on heart I mean this with humour, as before you and I argued we did once or twice have a real laugh, you really shouldn't address anyone as 'My Dear' mate. Its a little weird...you are a toy soldier collector/painter, not a teacher at Hogwarts!^&grin:salute::

Regards

Rob

 

[Poppo]

Rob...

What you do here is open yourself to abuse. Nobody can say some of the things you say have been raised about you if you don't mention them so, it may be a valid reason for keeping mum about private issues. I don't think its nasty to say that we all know there are some wack jobs on the internet. Your need to bring them up only aggravates those who believe you may be a benefit cheat or on the pay role etc. You are able to dish it out so, you must expect it back. The point is who cares I am a Nazi apparently has my life changed No. The notion between forum for toys and military miniatures and personal life has blurred for some and may be why their is an inability to rationally discuss the products.

I don't care if someone waves the K&C flag or any manufacturer's flag all day long in every thread just as I don't care if someone is constantly saying the products are wrong or, even that they are over priced rubbish. It just does not tire me or even provoke an emotion as I don't care they are military miniatures and we are here on a forum where we are able to discuss everything toy soldiers.

If someone starts a thread either for or against an item are you really saying that if its positive then only positive things can be said? That my dear Rob is rather childish and negates mature debate. Its saying I only want what I want to hear in a thread and by who I want to hear saying it and nothing else!!

I enjoyed the forthcoming dispatches threads you ran I know some did not but, who cares I am not on here to post what people like I want to add what I want to add and everyone should and, should not be concerned that some don't think its worthy or run to Matron wailing Waaaambulance!!! (You need to have seen the Kid to get that)

If someone wants to say my repaints are crap or my scenes are then let them so long as they can back it up ain't going to make me stop building or painting and it does not spoil the thread. The only line I have on here is in relation to the dio's/scenes people put on. Everyone is at different levels and needs support. everything else is fair game and if someone wants to say something personal they can have it back with spades or trying to stay in the rules of the forum tiny little seaside spades!!

people themselves take the issues personally if I say FL or K&C product X is rubbish it really must mean I am calling your wife fat!!! Its just so obvious that when someone says they don't like Gordon's dio's that the real meaning is what I have said so, get on your high horse and defend the manufacture.

As I said the other day the notion that one has to say an opinion once and move on is unrealistic when so many people post on an issue with different ideas comments etc that on a discussion forum you then reply with an additional point based on what you think. That is debate and discussion. In not one thread anywhere on here have I ever seen anyone just say this is crap post after post or, anyone say its great posts after post. Its just how certain individuals emotionally respond to the post and what is said and then importantly, who says it that counts.

You said respect everyone's posts and opinions and that is absolutely correct but, it has to be a two way street with everyone not self assuming they are in a somehow better position on the forum to decide whose opinions and comments are worthy of respect and whose are not.

The horse glue, tall poppy, agenda's and anything is just a waste on me I want to discuss the products and the history the rest we have discussed in PM on many occasions is not even relevant.

I mean even the thread title is a ''Rattle to far''

I also don't think I can take credit for the make up stuff that was said long before I used it here. Now, that you mentioned the 25ILB I want to hear your opinions about it
Mitch



How well said Mitch....The thread could be closed with your wise and balanced words :salute::

 

[jazzeum]

How well said Mitch....The thread could be closed with your wise and balanced words :salute::

Yes, after 22 pages, it should probably be closed. The rest of the post previous to Poppo's seems like a rant, anger at the world, maybe because few seem to agree with him.

 

[bzr116]

Quite right jazzeum...any more discussion and I think this website should start selling these...

 

[Rob]

Yes, after 22 pages, it should probably be closed. The rest of the post previous to Poppo's seems like a rant, anger at the world, maybe because few seem to agree with him.

Yep, time to end this and get back to Toy Soldiers, everyone has had their say pretty much and I doubt any new ground will be covered!

Quite right jazzeum...any more discussion and I think this website should start selling these...

^&grin

Rob

 

[arnhem44mad]

This is better than corrie

 

[uksubs]

Mitch,

I'd like to answer a few of your points if I may. Sorry for my tardiness here but just back from my run, warm out there today!

Apparently 'I'm on the pay roll' 'I'm a Spy' etc etc, apparently another member is accusing me of stealing benefit from the government whilst work

Rob

I Can see the headlines on tomorrow "Sun " newspaper with be now wink2:^&grin ex Postie with bad back is a benefit cheat with a photo of Rob running down carrying big box of K&C freebies ^&grin Joke mate

 

[Rob]

I Can see the headlines on tomorrow "Sun " newspaper with be now wink2:^&grin ex Postie with bad back is a benefit cheat with a photo of Rob running down carrying big box of K&C freebies ^&grin Joke mate

Neil, I ran eleven miles today, I doubt Derren Brown could do that and get benefit from this government^&grin

Rob