Mitch’s statements… Andy’s Comments (2 Viewers)

[larso]

I remember when I was a boy there was an almost vicious debate between many boys (and men) over whether car manufacturer Ford or Holden was the best. I found it tiresome then and I've found similar over the top stuff here tiresome too - so I don't read it. I skip the posts of those who have a record for saying such things (there are some some odd things going on with some of them). So they waste their time as far as I'm concerned. I'm a happy collector of four different metal makers and whatever plastic I can get. I enjoy getting on here to see what is new and I enjoy interacting with other (balanced) like minded collectors.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Totally agree with your comments Cyber Field Marshall, Toddy and the majority of other comments on this thread. I won't put my 10 cents worth in as i think we should all move on and enjoy the hobby and seeing and discussing each other's fantastic toy soldier collections/dio's etc.

P.S. Toddy, if you live at the "Bottom of the Pacific in Paradise", why are all you lot coming over here to Oz! ^&grin

Tom

Its all part of our cunning plan Tom.......it's so cunning I have no idea what it is...{sm5}

 

[TomNT]

Its all part of our cunning plan Tom.......it's so cunning I have no idea what it is...{sm5}

That's alright mate, we know how "special" you lot are! ^&grin

Tom

 

[villagehorse]

Something I have learned Andy, you rarely can change someone's mind once its set or expect them to come back with hat in hand, just a fact of life. While it's good for the soul to express your feelings in words, I have found there is little else to be gained. I have in the last 10 years had numerous situations happen to me, totally bizarre, my wife and I now expect and call them "LEFT FIELDER'S". I hate the fact that your thought out measured response has taken you away from what you do best, you have nothing to prove in my eyes. Keep enjoying the best job in the world. Cheers, Robin.

 

[HAWKEYE]

hanks

Excellent Guy.

As the paragraphs in the posts get longer and longer, the debate gets more and more personal and less and less about toy soldiers. Perhaps Treefrog could start a new section of the forum called Acrimonious Debates and just transfer the thread there when it gets personal. That way the people that want to argue can argue and the people that want to talk about toy soldiers can do that too. Maybe make the new Acrimonious section unmoderated so there can't be any claims of favouritism or censorship.

Try going to the beginning of the threads with arguments, take a step back and have a good look at the posts. Then maybe you will see how childish you appear. Almost as bad as the rabid pack of exiles on CF.

Terry

great suggestion terry, i am on here for fun, i have enough of all the other bullcrap at work or on any of our news channels. lets just all have a great time on this forum that we are very lucky to have thanks to shannon and rev pete. thanks , greg

 

[IONA]

I think if you spend alot of money on a hobby you should be able to say how great or how bad you think each model is
I remember when this forum used to be a good laugh
Now it seems as if everyone is just on here waiting to slag someone off
Scott

 

[Rob]

I think if you spend alot of money on a hobby you should be able to say how great or how bad you think each model is
I remember when this forum used to be a good laugh
Now it seems as if everyone is just on here waiting to slag someone off
Scott

That is a very good point indeed. This forum was indeed a real laugh a few years ago, not sure how many of you have noticed but a lot of very nice and long term members either have left or rarely post anymore. From the members I've talked to who no longer post the reason was almost universal , ' the fun has gone out of it' . Constant anti agendas whether they be anti K&C or anti FL have truly got on people's nerves. I'm not saying we never had arguments here back in the day, god knows I had a few, but there was a friendlier more accepting atmosphere with fewer agendas. I always spouted that it is perfectly possible to be a massive fan of one product and at the same time not feel any need to attack another , variety is the life blood of TS collecting surely, but those with their anti this and that Crusades have managed to drive some of the best members away. Doesn't matter how big a forum is if the humour and character have all gone out of it.


Rob

 

[Iron Duke]

As far as internet retaliation goes, I think Andy has just placed a king hit! I've been off the forum for a while now, I don't know what went on (I'd rather stay out of it) but I'm happy to see that the good name of Neilson has been cleared!

 

[wayne556517]

That is a very good point indeed. This forum was indeed a real laugh a few years ago, not sure how many of you have noticed but a lot of very nice and long term members either have left or rarely post anymore. From the members I've talked to who no longer post the reason was almost universal , ' the fun has gone out of it' . Constant anti agendas whether they be anti K&C or anti FL have truly got on people's nerves. I'm not saying we never had arguments here back in the day, god knows I had a few, but there was a friendlier more accepting atmosphere with fewer agendas. I always spouted that it is perfectly possible to be a massive fan of one product and at the same time not feel any need to attack another , variety is the life blood of TS collecting surely, but those with their anti this and that Crusades have managed to drive some of the best members away. Doesn't matter how big a forum is if the humour and character have all gone out of it.


Rob

What do you have to do to be one of these ?????????????
Members come members go i don't see numbers falling and the for sale sign going up,alot of who-har about squat..................................^&grin
I also heard (On the TS grapevine) as a punishment no release from K&C next month................{eek3}:wink2:^&grin

 

[Rob]

What do you have to do to be one of these ?????????????
Members come members go i don't see numbers falling and the for sale sign going up,alot of who-har about squat..................................^&grin
I also heard (On the TS grapevine) as a punishment no release from K&C next month................{eek3}:wink2:^&grin

No,you wouldn't see numbers falling because the numbers don't go down when someone leaves. I mean actually talking to people on the ground in London who said they've had enough and don't bother posting anymore. Shame as some of these folk have contributed a great deal to the forum over many years, hopefully some will still look in now and again, when you ignore all the BS this place is still be very enjoyable.

Rob

 

[wayne556517]

No,you wouldn't see numbers falling because the numbers don't go down when someone leaves. I mean actually talking to people on the ground in London who said they've had enough and don't bother posting anymore. Shame as some of these folk have contributed a great deal to the forum over many years, hopefully some will still look in now and again, when you ignore all the BS this place is still be very enjoyable.

Rob

But what is BS and what is someones opinion?
The thing is mate its a public forum not a private mens club so like you said if some don't like it don't post
i haven't noticed the number of new threads going up every day declining.

 

[Rob]

:

But what is BS and what is someones opinion?
The thing is mate its a public forum not a private mens club so like you said if some don't like it don't post
i haven't noticed the number of new threads going up every day declining.

Come on Wayne, you can I'm sure tell the diff between toal BS that someone is aiming at others and real opinion. 'If you don't like BS don't post' , the people who have added so much to this forum over the years are starting to drift away because of all the BS . You say threads are not declining in numbers , no they are not, but look at the quality of them mate and how many get so few replies??. There is another element sadly lacking and that is consideration. 'Just because you can does not mean you should'. If you've not got anything positive to say consider not saying anything, the automatic contradiction and negativity winds people up no end. Yes we all have freedom of speech and its a wonderful thing, but sometimes just sometimes maybe some should consider not butting in with a negative comment just because they can, just sometimes.:wink2:

Rob

 

[wayne556517]

:

Come on Wayne, you can I'm sure tell the diff between toal BS that someone is aiming at others and real opinion. 'If you don't like BS don't post' , the people who have added so much to this forum over the years are starting to drift away because of all the BS . You say threads are not declining in numbers , no they are not, but look at the quality of them mate and how many get so few replies??. There is another element sadly lacking and that is consideration. 'Just because you can does not mean you should'. If you've not got anything positive to say consider not saying anything, the automatic contradiction and negativity winds people up no end. Yes we all have freedom of speech and its a wonderful thing, but sometimes just sometimes maybe some should consider not butting in with a negative comment just because they can, just sometimes.:wink2:

Rob

My point is mate someones opinion might be BS to me BUT valid to others,not a nice thing to say about other peoples threads,that there no good lacking quality..................{eek3}
If you can"t say what you want in fear of upsetting those "good members" whats the point.
Im confused mate...................................^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse

 

[Rob]

My point is mate someones opinion might be BS to me BUT valid to others,not a nice thing to say about other peoples threads,that there no good lacking quality..................{eek3}
If you can"t say what you want in fear of upsetting those "good members" whats the point.
Im confused mate...................................^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse

Yep I totally understand that mate and well said, maybe I over did it a bit, but what I guess I'm trying to say is that if some are determined to shout others down all the time then it puts some folk off. And you did also make a fair point in that people come and go from forums all the time, 'natural wastage' as it were:wink2:

Rob

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Yep I totally understand that mate and well said, maybe I over did it a bit, but what I guess I'm trying to say is that if some are determined to shout others down all the time then it puts some folk off. And you did also make a fair point in that people come and go from forums all the time, 'natural wastage' as it were:wink2:

Rob

Rob, You may be one of the few exceptions here on the forum as far as being here for almost 7 years now and still regularly post frequently. Many of the older members have slowed down. I guess something that happens in any hobby or niche.

 

[Mitch]

well, I have sat back looking in at this thread wondering what will come next. I have to say irregardless of whether it falls on deaf ears or not that its really the same old same old. I joined this forum at a time when certain folks were getting hounded for comments about K&C and some for the comments about FL. It was all very personal and, I interjected a few times because I felt it was a lot of rubbish to do that. I know it wrangled feathers but, thats life and, it continued to the point where people were removed from sections of the forum for saying what they thought.

I dislike censorship and, whether andy says there are not factions on here there certainly are. I have no agenda for one manufacturer or not and will point out if I like a set or not and if I notice (like others do) innacuracies or similar will mention it. Thats what a forum is all about !!!!

I have no personal gripe also with anyone if someone calls me something odds on I will give them some back what peeves me is the sanctimonious claptrap that is spouted by people who have either been heavily involved in arguments on this forum for many years or, who are able to swoop in chuck a few comments than hide back in the shadows. I also freely admit to be amazed at the ferocity albeit it without teeth the response if anyone has something negative to say about K&C or FL. These are as I have always stated toy soldiers and we are grown men and the defend to the death response will always bewilder me.

If anyone does not think andy speaks poorly to customers look back and see what has been said and, may I add for those who believe the forum trouble is down to me look at all the arguments and ferocity of them past may 2010

Rob suggest that it was more fun back then and things have changed well, they probably have but, the nastyness and personal attacks have lessened if one takes the opportunity to look back. I could suggest one thread out of many I could and say Rammjager who came out of that looking well and, ther.e are others where there was no fun whatsover.

As for the ridiculous suggestions that have been implied that there is something lacking in my life though cowardly to imply my life is fine and, I certainly do not garner a better life from popping comments on a forum I am opininated of course we all are but, in response to those who say I brow beat those who do not agree tosh!!! will I stick with my opinions yes. as there is a regular monitor and saver of posts if this were true it would have been shown Thats called moral character and strength I would not wish to be a person whose beliefs are all over the place if that annoys some, sorry not my problem.

This forum I think really is a good place but, lets have no confusion that the problems are there because of the inability of those who cannot have constructive comment against their choosen manufacturers and the entrenchment of the mindset that if something is said about a set or the owner then you are anti K&C or anti FL!!!!!

These so called battle lines that were drawn up long before I came to the forum have tainted peoples perceptions of what is a constructive comment and what is just a pop at the stuff every comment is scrutinised by a few to see if they can make the conspiracy confirmed and, then retaliate accordingly. If that idiocy stopped then maybe rob would get his more fun place but, its unlikely. Many posters now critically address releases and many don't its whatever is your bag I have seen people say they hate the piles of dio's posted by the aussies people say they hate the song and movie threads people say they hate this person or that people who say one thing in PM and another on open forum.

Its easy when this type of thing happens to rally round and say what is wrong but, everyone, bar one has acted in the manner they bemoan at one time or another. Its also easy to have selective amnesia also as a few of the contributors of this thread have recently been on the recieving end of andy's customer relations and were supported by people including myself when that happened. That does not mean you hate K&C if you say something other than bravo andy. 99% of the stuff I like but, I don't have to like how he says what he does.

Now why don't you do what you say you want and talk about toy soldiers???

PS thank you to the number of people who contacted me offering a supportive comment
Mitch

 

[Rob]

well, I have sat back looking in at this thread wondering what will come next. I have to say irregardless of whether it falls on deaf ears or not that its really the same old same old. I joined this forum at a time when certain folks were getting hounded for comments about K&C and some for the comments about FL. It was all very personal and, I interjected a few times because I felt it was a lot of rubbish to do that. I know it wrangled feathers but, thats life and, it continued to the point where people were removed from sections of the forum for saying what they thought.

I dislike censorship and, whether andy says there are not factions on here there certainly are. I have no agenda for one manufacturer or not and will point out if I like a set or not and if I notice (like others do) innacuracies or similar will mention it. Thats what a forum is all about !!!!

I have no personal gripe also with anyone if someone calls me something odds on I will give them some back what peeves me is the sanctimonious claptrap that is spouted by people who have either been heavily involved in arguments on this forum for many years or, who are able to swoop in chuck a few comments than hide back in the shadows. I also freely admit to be amazed at the ferocity albeit it without teeth the response if anyone has something negative to say about K&C or FL. These are as I have always stated toy soldiers and we are grown men and the defend to the death response will always bewilder me.

If anyone does not think andy speaks poorly to customers look back and see what has been said and, may I add for those who believe the forum trouble is down to me look at all the arguments and ferocity of them past may 2010

Rob suggest that it was more fun back then and things have changed well, they probably have but, the nastyness and personal attacks have lessened if one takes the opportunity to look back. I could suggest one thread out of many I could and say Rammjager who came out of that looking well and, ther.e are others where there was no fun whatsover.

As for the ridiculous suggestions that have been implied that there is something lacking in my life though cowardly to imply my life is fine and, I certainly do not garner a better life from popping comments on a forum I am opininated of course we all are but, in response to those who say I brow beat those who do not agree tosh!!! will I stick with my opinions yes. as there is a regular monitor and saver of posts if this were true it would have been shown Thats called moral character and strength I would not wish to be a person whose beliefs are all over the place if that annoys some, sorry not my problem.

This forum I think really is a good place but, lets have no confusion that the problems are there because of the inability of those who cannot have constructive comment against their choosen manufacturers and the entrenchment of the mindset that if something is said about a set or the owner then you are anti K&C or anti FL!!!!!

These so called battle lines that were drawn up long before I came to the forum have tainted peoples perceptions of what is a constructive comment and what is just a pop at the stuff every comment is scrutinised by a few to see if they can make the conspiracy confirmed and, then retaliate accordingly. If that idiocy stopped then maybe rob would get his more fun place but, its unlikely. Many posters now critically address releases and many don't its whatever is your bag I have seen people say they hate the piles of dio's posted by the aussies people say they hate the song and movie threads people say they hate this person or that people who say one thing in PM and another on open forum.

Its easy when this type of thing happens to rally round and say what is wrong but, everyone, bar one has acted in the manner they bemoan at one time or another. Its also easy to have selective amnesia also as a few of the contributors of this thread have recently been on the recieving end of andy's customer relations and were supported by people including myself when that happened. That does not mean you hate K&C if you say something other than bravo andy 99% of the stuff but, don't have to like how he says what he does.

Now why don't you do what you say you want and talk about toy soldiers???

PS thank you to the number of people who contacted me offering a supportive comment
Mitch

Interesting post Mitch, but have to disagree on that point. To explain away the problems on the forum in that sentence is just plain wrong. The fact remains that a lot of problems are caused by people who are antagonistic and who insist on posting in peoples threads when they have clearly no interest in the subject and their posts are designed to inflame the situation. Do some people ever consider not posting an inflammatory remark when they have no real reason to?

As for remarks about about K&C and FL this is very interesting. I think this falls into two catergories. 1) You go onto the K&C/FL area and say for instance ' I'm not buying that vehicle, the markings are wrong and I don't like the tracks'. Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all in my view, freedom of speech.
2) You do the same and say ' I'm not buying that vehicle, the markings are wrong its a pile of junk that only K&C fans will buy and Andy is ripping off his customers. In my view when that is said in the K&C area what on gods earth do people expect?? What gives some the right to insult others but rather pompously expect nothing in return from members and producers alike. Its all very well putting the ' freedom of speech' argument, but common sense says ' no one provokes me with impunity' (as one member posts state). Until people use some self restraint, consideration and plain common manners this will not end.

You also raise a good point re what annoys folk. Some hate my Dispatches threads and avoid them like the plague, others as you say hate the film/music threads or the many dio's we see, but mostly people do not try with purpose to derail these threads. So why can't that translate to the producers threads?

Just my six pence worth.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

Your on as much as I am lets look back recently at the rancour and, keeping the discussions we have in PM private whats caused some of the disorder even though its a storm in a teacup. Its been on the whole apart from some attempts by posters to bring racist and nationalistic antagonism on the whole been about someone saying they don't like a piece of K&C be that sets or comments from owner and, the need for a few to then pile in and say what they feel they have too.

It takes two to argue and, as you say if people don't have to say a comment then don't. How does mentioning a differnce of opinion annoy someone else??? its not like we are just making up these things to make a conversation we are talking and discussing things that are in front of us. I don't even consider this to be an argument people have had their say some have tried to make it personal but, thats down to them my comments were never because I don't like K&C products just some of the blurb that surrounds it is unecessary

I have said from day one that I believe someone should have the right to say positive and negative things as this is where they should be said and, as prices are high its important for many to have an honest appraisal of what people feel the sets are. my opinion is just that and if it helps someone buy a set great if not it does not bother me if they take no notice that I feel its the wrong grey or is missing a wheel and then go and buy it.

Some comments as you say are just placed to get a rise but, this is not what is being discussed here or, I should say about what I have put. The vast majority of my posts are positive but, I don't shy away from saying what I think thats the way I am. But, as you have said many times about the negative or wind up comments report the thread and move on letting those in charge to deal with it should they feel it warrants it.

You mention common sense and manners well, thats what all of this at its crux was about and, you are right but, its down to everyone not just the few to do exactly that. everyone tries to look holier than thou in these situations but, certainly don't come to the party with clean hands!!!
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Rob...

Your on as much as I am lets look back recently at the rancour and, keeping the discussions we have in PM private whats caused some of the disorder even though its a storm in a teacup. Its been on the whole apart from some attempts by posters to bring racist and nationalistic antagonism on the whole been about someone saying they don't like a piece of K&C be that sets or comments from owner and, the need for a few to then pile in and say what they feel they have too.

It takes two to argue and, as you say if people don't have to say a comment then don't. How does mentioning a differnce of opinion annoy someone else??? its not like we are just making up these things to make a conversation we are talking and discussing things that are in front of us. I don't even consider this to be an argument people have had their say some have tried to make it personal but, thats down to them my comments were never because I don't like K&C products just some of the blurb that surrounds it is unecessary

I have said from day one that I believe someone should have the right to say positive and negative things as this is where they should be said and, as prices are high its important for many to have an honest appraisal of what people feel the sets are.

Some comments as you say are just placed to get a rise but, this is not what is being discussed here or, I should say about what I have put. The vast majority of my posts are positive but, I don't shy away from saying what I think thats the way I am. But, as you have said many times about the negative or wind up comments report the thread and move on letting those in charge to deal with it should they feel it warrants it.

You mention common sense and manners well, thats what all of this at its crux was about and, you are right but, its down to everyone not just the few to do exactly that. everyone tries to look holier than thou in these situations but, certainly don't come to the party with clean hands!!!
Mitch

Mitch,

You are quite right in that if everyone used common manners and thought perhaps a little bit about what they were writing before they hit the keys then things may not get so heated. I've always said that perfectly valid concerns or complaints should be heard and respected, its just about how its done and if its done rudely then people will react. However, I think we are going round and round now so better ' Gid along' as the miner in the old westerns always says.

Rob

 

[maddadicus]

I am sure that we can all come up with a list of the same hit and run posters who bait members on most every other thread ( especially K/C ). They never show their collections, always spout this and that mfg. rules, etc. They win as long as the mods continue to blink and gloss over these same members intent to disrupt. By the way, no comment from the original complaining member who was profusely offended by Andy's remarks. This is as much his bru ha ha as any. Cry wolf, anyone! Michael