N.f.l. 2012 (1 Viewer)

[Combat]

From what I saw of Alex Smith in the NFC Championship game he is definitely not the guy to take the 49ers to the next level. He played scared and bad. A lethal combo. They have the D and special teams to play for the championship. But not the QB. The only downside to Peyton is he provides a limited window for any team - maybe one or two years - to win the Super Bowl. Already past his prime and in questionable health, how long can he play at the highest level? If I'm him, I go to the 49ers or Ravens. Teams with the players and coaches to win it all now. Avoid Miami, NYJ, and Washington like the plague. Those are teams in disarray.

 

[jazzeum]

I don't know how many of you are good at football trivia but every year WFAN in New York gives away five SB packages (football tickets, airfare and hotel), regardless of what teams are in the SB. They have one more trip to give away. You have to answer four questions. The first is usually easy, then it gets a little harder and the fourth question is an audio clip (since people are using books and computers to answer questions).

If interested, listen tomorrow between 1 and 630 when Mike Francesa, the host, does the contest. In the metro area, it's 660 on the dial or via the web, www.wfan.com

 

[Warrior]

From what I saw of Alex Smith in the NFC Championship game he is definitely not the guy to take the 49ers to the next level. He played scared and bad. A lethal combo. They have the D and special teams to play for the championship. But not the QB. The only downside to Peyton is he provides a limited window for any team - maybe one or two years - to win the Super Bowl. Already past his prime and in questionable health, how long can he play at the highest level? If I'm him, I go to the 49ers or Ravens. Teams with the players and coaches to win it all now. Avoid Miami, NYJ, and Washington like the plague. Those are teams in disarray.

Agreed, he was terrible, beyond terrible really, how many times did he roll out and fire a pass 800 miles an hour at a receivers feet, just brutal.

They ran a high school offense in that game as I tortured myself and watched it last night again as it was on the NFL network.

Running back, fullback, one tight end, two wide outs; no slot receiver, no five wides, no two tight end sets, nothing, talk about vanilla.

There will be no vanilla in two weeks from the Patriots.

As in none.

As far as Manning, he's got a screw loose if he plays again; he has more money than God, he has his SB trophy, he has his MVP's, top five all time QB, why risk your health, this is his neck we are talking about, I wouldn't do it. For what, two or three years max; it's idiotic.

 

[jazzeum]

From what I saw of Alex Smith in the NFC Championship game he is definitely not the guy to take the 49ers to the next level. He played scared and bad. A lethal combo. They have the D and special teams to play for the championship. But not the QB. The only downside to Peyton is he provides a limited window for any team - maybe one or two years - to win the Super Bowl. Already past his prime and in questionable health, how long can he play at the highest level? If I'm him, I go to the 49ers or Ravens. Teams with the players and coaches to win it all now. Avoid Miami, NYJ, and Washington like the plague. Those are teams in disarray.

I don't think Peyton would want to come east. As mentioned the likely locations are Seattle or Arizona, teams not that far away. The Ravens don't make sense. They have Flacco who looked good against New England. As far as what you term teams in disarray, it would be hard to make that judgment now because they will look a lot different in a few months than they do now, i.e., draft, free agency, minicamp, etc.

 

[jazzeum]

Things may be going from bad to worse, Irsay: Manning Should Have Kept Thoughts In the Family

 

[lancer]

Things may be going from bad to worse, Irsay: Manning Should Have Kept Thoughts In the Family

Irsay inherited the idiot gene from his father. Manning, who is not an idiot, could see the writing on the wall and just alluded to it. Manning had his glory days with the Colts, as did Unitas with the Baltimore Colts, and now Manning appears to be on the same road Unitas was on, that being, chased out of town and off his long time team by an Irsay. Nuts to the Irsay dynasty and their team. -- Al

 

[Peter Reuss]

With the Colts' hiring of a new coach, their probable intention of not making the 28 million dollar payment due in March to Peyton Manning and the drafting of Andrew Luck on the horizon, the last time we may see a Manning play in Indy may be in two Sundays and it won't be Peyton.

Even if he is healthy there is some thought he may retire if he can't play for the Colts. Strong suitors if he can and does want to play are supposed to be Arizona and Seattle.

If ever a franchise knew how to bring in old, washed up quarterbacks, it would be the Vikings! We're not in disarray...we're just bad!

 

[Louis Badolato]

Patriots fans who are in their mid to late 40's, do you share the same memories of football as a child that Giants fans like me in the same age group? After the 1963 championship game, thanks to a falling out between the Maras, no one was at the helm of the Giants, and they stunk on ice until Pete Rosell brokered piece between the Maras in 1981, and they hired George Young as the GM. If my recollection is accurate, the Pats were similarly mired in the doldrums during the late 60's, 70's and early 80's.

Then in 1985 the Pats won their first AFC Championship, and in 1986 the Giants won their first NFC Championship and Super Bowl. In the 26 years since each team has won 3 Super Bowls, and the Pats have 7 AFC Championships to the Giants 5 NFC titles, with one of the two teams about to win their 4th Super Bowl a week from Sunday. The Giants first two Super Bowls wins were with Bill Bellichik as the defensive coordinator, the Patriots 3 Super Bowl titles were all with Bellichik at the helm. The Giants and Patriots went from the laughingstocks of the NFL when I was a kid to two of the best franchises in my adult years.

Now both franchises are on a second collision course 4 years after their last head to head super bowl. The Patriots' Bellichik and Brady, already locks for the hall of fame, are shooting for immortality as the best coach and QB in league history. The Giants' Coughlin and Manning are looking to punch their ticket to the hall of fame with their second super bowl win over the mighty Bellichik and Brady, and in doing so accomplishing something no other coach/QB combination in New York has ever done in the storied history of the Giants Franchise, which has played in the most championships (18) and won the second most titles (7) in NFL history (14 of the games and 4 of the titles happened before I was born). Not too shabby for a pair of perinneal cellar dwelling teams for the first 18 years of my life.

 

[jazzeum]

The person no one seems to mention is Ray Perkins. He was the Giant coach who hired both Parcells and Belichek and who began the process of bringing the Giants back to respectability in his brief tenure with the team.

Under his watch Simms was drafted, a decision that was booed by the Giants faithful on draft day. Boy were they wrong. George Young knew what he was doing. A very gruff man but a great interview.

 

[Warrior]

The Patriots were a very good team in the mid to late 70's. In 1975 they were 3-11, they turned it around under
Chuck Fairbanks and went 11-3 in 1976 and were loaded, Grogan at QB, Hannah and Gray in the O line, Russ Francis, called an all world tight end by Cosell, Harold Jackson, Stanley Morgan, Sam Cunningham from USC was a big bruising running back, Michael Haynes on defense, a young group of D linemen and linebackers, they were loaded going into the playoffs.

They traveled to Oakland and were pounding the Raiders 21-3, then the Raiders came roaring back and on a fourth down play, Stabler was nearly sacked and threw up a prayer that fell incomplete.

Game over, on to the AFCCG............not so fast, Ben Dreath threw a roughing the passer flag on a bogus, BS call, he so much as saying so years later and the Raiders won the game.

BS.

Then in 1978 they were again a very good team, finished 11-5, but Fairbanks had a falling out with the owner Billy Sullivan and was fired/took the head job at Colorado right before the last game of the year; they went into the playoffs in a total funk and lost to the Oilers.

 

[jazzeum]

I was up in Mass at law school in the late 70s and followed the Pats. Grogan was a great QB out of Kansas who no one knows any more. A real pity. I also remember that 78 fiasco. Another shame. Yes, they were loaded.

 

[Louis Badolato]

The person no one seems to mention is Ray Perkins. He was the Giant coach who hired both Parcells and Belichek and who began the process of bringing the Giants back to respectability in his brief tenure with the team.

Under his watch Simms was drafted, a decision that was booed by the Giants faithful on draft day. Boy were they wrong. George Young knew what he was doing. A very gruff man but a great interview.

Brad,

Giants fans were not wrong to boo that draft pick. Phil Simms was a capable quarterback, but taking him high in the first round, after he was an unknown from Moorehead State, was absolutely foolish, especially since they passed on Joe Montana, a Notre Dame QB much more highly rated (and infinitely better) not once, but twice (the Giants second round pick was also before San Francisco drafted Montana).

The Giants won with Phil Simms as a game manager - and don't talk to me about his one great performance in Super Bowl XXI - other than that one game Simms was far more likely to cost the Giants with a boneheaded interception or sack from holding onto the ball half an hour instead of throwing it out of bounds than he was to win a game. I watched every snap of every game in the 80's, and if it wasn't for the incredible defense (led by Hall of Famers Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson, but also including perinneal pro-bowlers Carl Banks, Pepper Johnson, George Martin and Leonard Marshall) and consistently stout running game with Joe Morris, Otis Anderson and Rodney Hampton, the Giants wouldn't have won anything. Sims had Mark Bavaro, one of the toughest and first prototype effective pass catching tight ends like the Vernon Davis, Gronkowski and Hernandez of today. He had effective widereceivers who could stretch the field in Steven Baker, as well as reliable possession receivers like Mark Ingram. Most of all, he had terrific offensive lines which both opened huge holes in the running game and protected him for 5-7 seconds every time he dropped back. Despite all of these advantages, Simms is the most sacked QB in NFL history, and threw more interceptions than any other QB in Giants history. With all of these advantages, he won only 1 Super Bowl, and, frankly, as poorly as he played against the 49ers (losing 7-3) and the Bills in the 1990 Regular Season (throwing multiple interceptions and being sacked a ridiculous amount of times), the Giants almost certainly would not have won the Super Bowl that season had Bruce Smith and the Bills defense not broken his leg late in the 3rd Quarter of their week 13 matchup.

Simms is way closer to an Alex Smith than he is an Eli Manning, and to think we could have had Joe Montana leading that team it is mind blowing. Imagine the Giants team of the mid to late 1980's (one of the all time great defenses, a terrific running game, a stout offensive line and a fantastic tight end) with Joe Montana as the QB! Giants fans (myself among them) fully expected the Giants to draft Joe Montana, and were incredibly disappointed we wasted that high first round pick on Phil Simms. As I said, he was a serviceable QB, and had we drafted a key defensive player with that high first round pick, then taken Simms at the top of the second round, that would have been a great move. But taking him at the very top of the draft and passing on Montana was almost as big a bone head move as the Jets passing on Dan Marino to draft Ken O'Brien.

 

[lancer]

I once actually rooted for the Patriots. It was in their first SB, when they played Chicago. I liked Grogan and the rest of the team but I was really rooting for an old Baltimore Colt hero, Ray Berry, the Pats head coach. I also had a soft spot for the old Patriots of Babe Parilli and that huge running back, Jim Nance. Of course, the Pats were from Boston back then.:wink2: I also liked that old uniform better.^&grin -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

Louis,

No doubt you are right but hindsight is 20 20 isn't it. At that time (when I followed the Giants probably more than the Jets -- actually until recently I rooted for both teams until I found that Giant fans were simply too overbearing and annoying) I thought that it was a good decision, or at least one that could be good since George Young came with good credentials.

In retrospect maybe you're right but Simms did win the SB; you can't ignore that fact. My recollection is that when he broke his leg he was having a great season as the Giants were 10-0 or 11-0 so who knows if they win or don't win the game. In Parcells' system, I'm not sure how much the QB would have made a difference in the Bills game.

Speaking of Bavaro, I met him once. I was attending a dinner at the Meadowlands where a Giants player sat at each table and Mark sat at ours. He had brought his SB rings with him and he passed them around to each person at the table to look at and try on. It was pretty cool and he was a great guy. Never forget the game (forget which year) when he dragged several Niners along with him until they finally brought him down. Yes, Gronkowski is like Bavaro.

Brad

 

[Louis Badolato]

The Patriots were a very good team in the mid to late 70's. In 1975 they were 3-11, they turned it around under
Chuck Fairbanks and went 11-3 in 1976 and were loaded, Grogan at QB, Hannah and Gray in the O line, Russ Francis, called an all world tight end by Cosell, Harold Jackson, Stanley Morgan, Sam Cunningham from USC was a big bruising running back, Michael Haynes on defense, a young group of D linemen and linebackers, they were loaded going into the playoffs.

They traveled to Oakland and were pounding the Raiders 21-3, then the Raiders came roaring back and on a fourth down play, Stabler was nearly sacked and threw up a prayer that fell incomplete.

Game over, on to the AFCCG............not so fast, Ben Dreath threw a roughing the passer flag on a bogus, BS call, he so much as saying so years later and the Raiders won the game.

BS.

Then in 1978 they were again a very good team, finished 11-5, but Fairbanks had a falling out with the owner Billy Sullivan and was fired/took the head job at Colorado right before the last game of the year; they went into the playoffs in a total funk and lost to the Oilers.

I remember that game against Oakland - didn't they call what was a deliberate forward fumble as time was about to expire a pass and put a couple of seconds back on the clock? I had fortgotten about those 77-78 Patriots teams.

The Giants also had a little rennaissance in 1983-85, making the playoffs, and losing to the 49ers on their way to a Super Bowl and to the Bears on their way to the Super Bowl, but nobody really expected them to win anything until 1986.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Louis,

No doubt you are right but hindsight is 20 20 isn't it. At that time (when I followed the Giants probably more than the Jets -- actually until recently I rooted for both teams until I found that Giant fans were simply too overbearing and annoying) I thought that it was a good decision, or at least one that could be good since George Young came with good credentials.

In retrospect maybe you're right but Simms did win the SB; you can't ignore that fact. My recollection is that when he broke his leg he was having a great season as the Giants were 10-0 or 11-0 so who knows if they win or don't win the game. In Parcells' system, I'm not sure how much the QB would have made a difference in the Bills game.

Speaking of Bavaro, I met him once. I was attending a dinner at the Meadowlands where a Giants player sat at each table and Mark sat at ours. He had brought his SB rings with him and he passed them around to each person at the table to look at and try on. It was pretty cool and he was a great guy. Never forget the game (forget which year) when he dragged several Niners along with him until they finally brought him down. Yes, Gronkowski is like Bavaro.

Brad

Don't get me wrong, Brad. Like I said, Simms would have been a great pick at the beginning of the second round, I just couldn't understand the Giants spending a top 5 pick on him. George Young was an amazing GM, the archetect of those 2 Super Bowl teams in 86 and 90. He drafted Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, Pepper Johnson, Mark Bavaro, Rodney Hampton, Jumbo Elliott, the list goes on and on. I don't recall a single one of his picks turning unto a bust. He also declined to fire Bill Parcells after Parcells went 2-14 his first season as head coach, another great move.

As far as the 1990 season, the Giants did start out awesome with Simms as QB, going 10-0 (with Hostetler coming in to the 7th win over the Cardinals when Simms got hurt in the 3rd Quarter and the Giants trailing by 9 points, and Hostetler leading them to a last second one point win), but then got blown out by the Eagles, lost to the 49ers 7-3, and were getting blown out by the Bills (down two touchdowns, Hostetler came in and made it close, scoring 10 points then leading a last minute drive which came up just short) when Simms broke his leg. It seemed like in those three losses, the defenses uniformly put 8 men in the box, stuffing the run and putting pressue on Simms to beat them with his arm, something he failed to do in all 3 games. Considering the Giants had to play the 49ers in the NFC Championship Game and the Bills in the Super Bowl, I don't think we could have won with the stone-footed Simms as QB. The much more mobile Hostetler, while unable to make it into the endzone, was able to lead 5 scoring drives against the 49ers in the NFC Championship Game to Simms' 1 field goal in the regular season game, and was able to score 20 points against the Bills to Simms' 10.

As far as Mark Bavaro is concerned, I envy your opportunity to meet him. Bavaro carried all those 49ers down the field (including Ronnie Lott) in 1986 - one of my favorite plays in Giants history. Mark Bavaro was tough and quiet and played as hard as any player I have ever seen. Simms tells a story of the Giants running out the clock in a blow out win over the Eagles, when Parcells called a weakside run. Bavaro cursed under his breath in the huddle, and Simm's asked him. "you don't like that play, big guy?" Bavaro responded, "I want the play to go my way". Simms asked him way, and Bavaro responded "I want to hit that guy one more time." After Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson, Bavaro was my favorite player on those teams. As much as I HATE the Eagles, I actually routed for Bavaro as an Eagle late in his career.

 

[jazzeum]

On Saturday night on HBO, there's a program about Joe Namath, which has gotten good reviews.

Here's an article about him and the Jets that appeared in today's Fifth Down Blog, Namath, an Estranged Jet.

He's pulling for the Giants on the Fifth :smile2:

 

[Warrior]

I remember that game against Oakland - didn't they call what was a deliberate forward fumble as time was about to expire a pass and put a couple of seconds back on the clock? I had fortgotten about those 77-78 Patriots teams.

No, that was another time the Raiders cheated; that game was vs the Chargers and as time was running down, Stabler was about to be sacked and he flung the ball forward, then several Raiders stumbled and bumbled the ball forward, Dave Casper fell on the ball in the end zone, touchdown, game over, Raiders win.

Talk about cheating your way to a win, how the refs did not call that an imcomplete forward pass/forward fumble is beyond me; thanks to that game, a rule is in place that with less than 2:00 minutes to go in a game, you cannot intentionally or unintentionally fumble the ball forward and if you do, it goes back to where you were tackled.................

 

[Combat]

The Pro Bowl game is a one of the most pathetic spectacles in sports. The stands are empty, the game is pathetic and meaningless. The Lingerie Football League is more compelling than the pro bowl. God forbid anyone gets hurt in this circus. The owners must be truly desperate to squeeze every TV dollar out of this sport. Next to the ridiculous number of preseason games and the desire to expand the season to 18 games, this is the worst of the lot. I would go back to 14 games, have one preseason game, and cut out the extra wildcard playoff game. Soon these guys will be playing year round.

 

[jazzeum]

I did watch a little of the Pro Bowl and, yes, it was pretty bad. I think the problem is that they don't want anyone getting hurt so it becomes a meaningless exhibition. I didn't watch the NHL All Star game last night but heard that one of the Rangers forwards scored against his own goalie (because the players were divided into Swedes and Eastern Europeans) and then pretended to fire an imaginary rifle against him. The Rangers coach said that will cost him money. At any rate, that too was a meaningless exhibition, 12-9. The only meaningful all star game is the baseball one because I think the players take it seriously.