New Releases for December 2019 - Boxer Rebellion (2 Viewers)

[OzDigger]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

We all know that several companies have released Sets that offend some people, and there are complete Ranges that some find offensive. However as far as I know this is the first Range based on a Massacre not a Conflict. This new Range includes Figures depicting the murder of a Woman and a Child, both Christians. Then the range is advertised here with A Merry Christmas to us all. I'm still thinking wow, just wow.

 

[jazzeum]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

The Boxer Rebellion was a conflict, one based on throwing everything Western out of China. Frankly, you can hardly blame them. It was a struggle for independence. Other ranges depicting conflicts with massacres that come to mind is the massacre of Custer and his troops. I’m sure there are others.

I hear people complaining that LAH are just nice figures and you shouldn’t read too much into them when people collect them. Yet, we now have a similar situation with the TM set. You can’t have it both ways.

You people have way too much too much time on your hands.

 

[zblang]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Not to belabor it, but every Viking set....those were raids followed by massacres. Again, fine, it’s history. Still trying to figure out what makes this so offensive to everyone considering all that’s in this hobby.

 

[nysoldiers]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Heh, I'm disturbed every time K&C and others release LAH Nazis on parade and figures of Hitler. Especially in a time when White Nationalism, Neo-Nazis and anti-semitism are on the rise.
I try hard, however, to understand the motives of people who collect these as just another part of history. Still I would be suspect if I saw a large display of these Nazis in someone's home
because I and some of my relatives have experienced the hatred from this group and mentality.
I believe that "its in the eye of the beholder" so maybe Im a hypocrite but I still buy from these companies. I would think that some Vietnamese would be offended by K&C, TCS and FL's
release of this range and we could go on and on.
History is often brutal and complicated. I have had people tell me that collecting toy soldiers/military miniatures is "war loving" and sends a bad message to our children.
We all have our 'red lines" and sensitivities.
Happy Holidays.....

 

[OzDigger]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

The Boxer Rebellion was a conflict, one based on throwing everything Western out of China. Frankly, you can hardly blame them. It was a struggle for independence. Other ranges depicting conflicts with massacres that come to mind is the massacre of Custer and his troops. I’m sure there are others.

I hear people complaining that LAH are just nice figures and you shouldn’t read too much into them when people collect them. Yet, we now have a similar situation with the TM set. You can’t have it both ways.

You people have way too much too much time on your hands.

I'm well aware the Boxer Rebellion was a conflict, this range was introduced as being a Massacre Range not as being part of a Boxer Rebellion range, read the thread title again if you're still not clear on that. I can't blame the Chinese for trying to evict the invaders, especially with the opium issues. If the sets were introduced as being part of a new ongoing Boxer Rebellion range there may have been less backlash

As for your comparison with Custer, Custer and his troops were soldiers, very different with non combatants, especially women and children. Can you not understand the difference?

You and several other members keep mentioning the LAH range as if there's a direct comparison. There may be in your mind, others would think some sets depicting the murder of a Rabi and a Jewish child would be a more direct comparison. If such sets were released I'm thinking you would be all over that on the forum, if you had time on your hands or not. That said maybe you and others would collect sets like that, I could kind of understand if that was so, but not something I would collect. I just collect Soldiers (mainly Australians), and enjoying my displays of Soldiers fighting other Soldiers.

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Perhaps because the black shirted ss are not depicted in the act of committing a massacre...

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME POSTING THIS RUBBISH> Seriously, the SS committed them every day for what 12 years???? Good God, this post should take an award and not a good one.

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

I do not want to see them in their uniforms either and I do not collect them. The point is that it is more objectionable for some collectors when massacres are depicted vs. combat scenarios and dioramas. Perhaps it is time for the hobby to implement a rating system similar to movies or video games!

OK, i thought your last post was nuts, now you want to PC the crap out of history with a ratings system? Seriously?

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

I'm well aware the Boxer Rebellion was a conflict, this range was introduced as being a Massacre Range not as being part of a Boxer Rebellion range, read the thread title again if you're still not clear on that. I can't blame the Chinese for trying to evict the invaders, especially with the opium issues. If the sets were introduced as being part of a new ongoing Boxer Rebellion range there may have been less backlash

As for your comparison with Custer, Custer and his troops were soldiers, very different with non combatants, especially women and children. Can you not understand the difference?

You and several other members keep mentioning the LAH range as if there's a direct comparison. There may be in your mind, others would think some sets depicting the murder of a Rabi and a Jewish child would be a more direct comparison. If such sets were released I'm thinking you would be all over that on the forum, if you had time on your hands or not. That said maybe you and others would collect sets like that, I could kind of understand if that was so, but not something I would collect. I just collect Soldiers (mainly Australians), and enjoying my displays of Soldiers fighting other Soldiers.

I don't disagree with a lot of the posts here on the timing, depiction, etc. but it is history same as the other stuff out there. That said, you are right, there is NO comparison IMO to anything LAH and what the Nazis did. There is nothing good about any of the Nazis, except it is a warning to never let that happen again. They are quite frankly the supreme filth of history, they really didn't discriminate as they killed or tried to kill everything in their path especially ethnicities that were different.

Genghis, the Romans, Attila, etc, Nanking, etc. they all happened and if they are to be depicted in miniature, so be it. And am I going to buy the crap that started this thread, DEFINITELY NOT. I personally don't find anything redeeming about this part of the range, but they are free to make it and market it as they wish, as offensive and in poor taste as it may be to some. Maybe it will be a disaster and they won't sell much, that will speak louder than any of these posts will.
TD

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

One final thought, there is one redeeming figure IMO the Boxer Flagbearer.

TD

 

[Terp152]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

The Boxer Rebellion was a conflict, one based on throwing everything Western out of China. Frankly, you can hardly blame them. It was a struggle for independence. Other ranges depicting conflicts with massacres that come to mind is the massacre of Custer and his troops. I’m sure there are others.

I hear people complaining that LAH are just nice figures and you shouldn’t read too much into them when people collect them. Yet, we now have a similar situation with the TM set. You can’t have it both ways.

You people have way too much too much time on your hands.

Brad,

" Frankly, you can hardly blame them." Well, I for one do blame them. It's one thing to expel foreigners, it another to slaughter innocent civilians, especially children. It's disturbing you would excuse that atrocity. This is in the category of Wounded Knee and Sand Creek. Those people were defenseless. I see another thread coming to a closure by the moderators. Chris

 

[OzDigger]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

I don't disagree with a lot of the posts here on the timing, depiction, etc. but it is history same as the other stuff out there. That said, you are right, there is NO comparison IMO to anything LAH and what the Nazis did. There is nothing good about any of the Nazis, except it is a warning to never let that happen again. They are quite frankly the supreme filth of history, they really didn't discriminate as they killed or tried to kill everything in their path especially ethnicities that were different.

Genghis, the Romans, Attila, etc, Nanking, etc. they all happened and if they are to be depicted in miniature, so be it. And am I going to buy the crap that started this thread, DEFINITELY NOT. I personally don't find anything redeeming about this part of the range, but they are free to make it and market it as they wish, as offensive and in poor taste as it may be to some. Maybe it will be a disaster and they won't sell much, that will speak louder than any of these posts will.
TD

I agree it is all history, and these things did occur. However I believe there are some scenes that do not need to be depicted, especially an unarmed Nun/Woman and Child about to be killed.

The company has released some excellent figures and I really like their Indian range. There are no sets depicting Women and Children being killed in that range or the others, that did occur of course. I'm wondering why this is happening now, in this new range, especially from a Chinese company.

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Brad,

" Frankly, you can hardly blame them." Well, I for one do blame them. It's one thing to expel foreigners, it another to slaughter innocent civilians, especially children. It's disturbing you would excuse that atrocity. This is in the category of Wounded Knee and Sand Creek. Those people were defenseless. I see another thread coming to a closure by the moderators. Chris

Chris,
It certainly is arguably in bad taste, that said, a private enterprise can make/depict what they want, I just choose not to buy it and quite frankly we would all be better off ignoring it, I think if you want to hit back at this release, by not buying it is a good way to do so. Retailers can choose whether to carry it or not and of course that will depend on sales. I don't see real high sales on this item in the US, UK or Australia IMO.

However, I don't advocate censoring it either, nothing good ever comes of that.
TD

 

[Alexander the Great]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME POSTING THIS RUBBISH> Seriously, the SS committed them every day for what 12 years???? Good God, this post should take an award and not a good one.

Apparently English is not your strong point. I stated they are not depicted committing massacres (when they are marching). I did not say that they did not commit massacres, of course they did and exactly why I do not buy such figures. Read more carefully next time my friend...

 

[Alexander the Great]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

---

OK, i thought your last post was nuts, now you want to PC the crap out of history with a ratings system? Seriously?

And here again lack of understanding or comprehension of simple English. Not ratings on history but what is depicted...would you be ok with a five or six year old boy just starting to collect toy soldiers to end up with a Chinese rebel killing a nun or a priest under the Christmas tree? If your answer is yes then who is nuts me or you?

 

[jazzeum]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Brad,

" Frankly, you can hardly blame them." Well, I for one do blame them. It's one thing to expel foreigners, it another to slaughter innocent civilians, especially children. It's disturbing you would excuse that atrocity. This is in the category of Wounded Knee and Sand Creek. Those people were defenseless. I see another thread coming to a closure by the moderators. Chris

Changes of regime and revolutions are written in blood. As the cliche goes, you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs. In the last couple of centuries the nature of warfare has changed where civilians have become fair game. We’re getting a bit far afield from the original objection to the figure so we should probably revisit the topic somewhere else and at some other time.

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

---

And here again lack of understanding or comprehension of simple English. Not ratings on history but what is depicted...would you be ok with a five or six year old boy just starting to collect toy soldiers to end up with a Chinese rebel killing a nun or a priest under the Christmas tree? If your answer is yes then who is nuts me or you?

First off, been around this block more times than you on this forum. Second, I am quite a master of the English language and happy to debate intelligence with you, have not a problem there as it is a strong suit. I am not bashful or humble in that regard, so fire away.

That said, uh......Parents should be in charge of what a young boy or girl should collect as last time I checked that is where it starts. We do not need a rating system, thank you. The Government is in enough of what we do without rating Toy Soldiers for crying out loud. Again, Seriously, just like every other subject around censorship, it starts at home. End of story.

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Apparently English is not your strong point. I stated they are not depicted committing massacres (when they are marching). I did not say that they did not commit massacres, of course they did and exactly why I do not buy such figures. Read more carefully next time my friend...

Again, my English is just fine. As to history here, what exactly do you think the point was of them Marching? Maybe, just maybe it was to instill fear and demonstrate their perceived delusional superiority? Which they tried to achieve through action which most of the time or all of the time in case of those nice fellas in the black shirts _ MASS MURDER.

You can continue to dig this absurd hole of defending the 3rd Reich, be my guest, but common sense would tell you that the Nazis in any equation do not work well. You are defending the Nazis by your comment of marching. There is ZERO depiction of them in ANY way that is in good taste.

For the record, I own some, I am fully aware it is not in good taste, it is historical, but not in good taste and defintely offensive. I own them as a reminder.

TD

 

[Alexander the Great]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Again, my English is just fine. As to history here, what exactly do you think the point was of them Marching? Maybe, just maybe it was to instill fear and demonstrate their perceived delusional superiority? Which they tried to achieve through action which most of the time or all of the time in case of those nice fellas in the black shirts _ MASS MURDER.

You can continue to dig this absurd hole of defending the 3rd Reich, be my guest, but common sense would tell you that the Nazis in any equation do not work well. You are defending the Nazis by your comment of marching. There is ZERO depiction of them in ANY way that is in good taste.

For the record, I own some, I am fully aware it is not in good taste, it is historical, but not in good taste and defintely offensive. I own them as a reminder.

TD

This will be my last comment since we are talking different languages. I have not and will not ever defend the 3rd reich and I will not ever buy a single figure of those murderers...having said this I still find the depiction of a nun in the process of getting killed more objectionable than a German ss soldier marching.

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

This will be my last comment since we are talking different languages. I have not and will not ever defend the 3rd reich and I will not ever buy a single figure of those murderers...having said this I still find the depiction of a nun in the process of getting killed more objectionable than a German ss soldier marching.

I think the level and volume that the German SS murdered at will is just about as objectionable as you can get, marching or not.

Again, they are all part of history and I am not going to deny or censor someone's right to make it. You need to decide whether you buy it or not, but to compare it in any way to the Nazi's is a disservice to any intelligent discussion about history.

And NO, we are not talking different languages, it is pretty clear what you are saying. I am simply pointing out and Calling out that in History, nothing compares to the Nazis, not even how objectionable or offensive. They committed the greatest atrocity in history in civilized times, I.E. Modern History - it was in the 1900s same as the Boxers and any comparision is ludicrous. They are a class of Offensiveness all their own, again, Marching or not. To compare them in any shape or manner is objectionable in itself.

 

[tdubel]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Heh, I'm disturbed every time K&C and others release LAH Nazis on parade and figures of Hitler. Especially in a time when White Nationalism, Neo-Nazis and anti-semitism are on the rise.

Rich, you make a good point as I think Anti Semitism is far greater than White, etc. I find it utterly disgusting what is being tolerated today from our own Congress. If you listen and read what is being said, it sounds a lot like our enemies leading up to 9/11. That was only 18 years ago and I find it frightening. I believe every religion should have a voice, but I don't believe in militant ramblings at the expense of another (reduction of support in Israel). Afterall, they are our only true allies in that part of the world. Before anybody cries Political, this is not, I am simply restating a trend in facts and it scares me. That transcends all politics and party bullmalarkey.

TD