New Releases for December 2019 - Boxer Rebellion (2 Viewers)

[zblang]

Defensive much??? Dozens collect LAH here and all post photos, yet somehow all of Jewish members, which you like to point out,, are finger pointing at you???

My point was the murder of catholics is no different then the murder of others. I made a comparison , by the way, totally on topic if you’d take off your defensive blinders. Nowhere do defend these figures yet like LAH, buy what you like - as I’ve always stated. So, you want to start in with me being Jewish? And attacking you (neither of which i did) - welcome- door is open try to defend your position a little more

 

[zblang]

Oh, and a side question for you oh so sensitive one - how many of your family members were murdered by the Chinese during the boxer rebellion???
I bet less then the number of mine murdered by your precious SS troops!
You want to keep arguing this? You’re going to lose

 

[Jedburgh]

I have been watching this thread with interest. Team is a Chinese company - the Boxer Rebellion clearly has a different place in their history - given the foreign involvement. Didn't K&C have an Apache's victim staked out I do not remember it causing such a stooshie (Google it).

 

[wayne556517]

I think thanks are in order to Rose and Jack for their quick response in dealing with this issue.

I first saw this thread and received their dealer message late on Saturday night. I found the timing and original thread title inappropriate and did not like the 4 pairs. Plus as a dealer I did not think the 4 pairs involving civilians / Christians were going to be popular with those already collecting the series. This was quickly confirmed by feedback from some of those collectors one of whom said he might buy two of the pairs just to get the Boxer figures. Basically most people would prefer to have Boxers v infantry than have them killing unarmed people religious or not. I sent some feedback to TM which they saw Monday morning. I know they also got feedback from Julie our host.

By Tuesday evening they have changed the pairs into singles, re-photographed and updated item codes and their web page. This gives the collector the choice to buy the civilians or not.

From the start I did not think they realised these figures would cause any problems and certainly did not intend to cause any offence by the subject matter or timing. They were portraying what happened in 1900 and Jack covers this in his post.

The portrayal of unarmed civilians of any kind being killed by soldiers is not one I personally like and as a dealer I think most collectors would prefer not to collect such figures. A choice of 15 Boxers fighting Allied infantry is much more preferable.

Anyway thanks to TM for their quick response.

Will you be selling them mate?

 

[tdubel]

1st Point
No one is attempting to defend the offensiveness of the Nazi regime. It's all about What some of the Figures are doing, Not who's Side they are on, or How that Side is viewed in History.

2nd Point.
I agree with you about any Official type of Censorship. How could that work in this industry, and who's going to decide on what is offensive or not.

For example clearly there's some differences in opinion about some of the Boxer related sets discussed here. I didn't expect there would be any opposition, I thought it was straight forward. I guess I shouldn't be surprised as Collectors come from a wide variety of Countries, Religions and Cultures. Collectors are entitled to their Own Opinion on what They find Offensive.

Oz, i don't disagree with your first point, I would hope that no one would be on that side, I was again pointing out to me that it was ludicrous to bring the black shirts into this equation b/c I just can't agree with that on any level and that is what I was pointing out. Maybe Alex should have just said I used a bad example to make my point and be done with that, but that didn't happen.

TD

 

[zblang]

It’s insanity bc were all on the same side, but words are getting twisted.
We all agree there are terrible events of history, we all agree they must never happen again.
I for one am done arguing this ... for one last time, my only point was that for all the figures portraying pure evil events of history, it was these that set off the firestorm. The Jews, Gypsies etc of wwii are no more mportant of a people then the Christians in 1900s China. I don’t collect this type of figure, I never claimed they shouldn’t be made. My point was they’re all evil or none are evil.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Defensive much??? Dozens collect LAH here and all post photos, yet somehow all of Jewish members, which you like to point out,, are finger pointing at you???

My point was the murder of catholics is no different then the murder of others. I made a comparison , by the way, totally on topic if you’d take off your defensive blinders. Nowhere do defend these figures yet like LAH, buy what you like - as I’ve always stated. So, you want to start in with me being Jewish? And attacking you (neither of which i did) - welcome- door is open try to defend your position a little more

I have self deleted my original post after seeing Zachary's post written whilst I was writing.

i will address him via PM.

I would like to say Zachary is one of the nicest guys on this forum and I don't wish to prolong the debate.

 

[marco55]

I think it's time to end this.All good people here.I think we are all on the same side.
Mark

 

[The Military Workshop]

I think it's time to end this.All good people here.I think we are all on the same side.

Mark

Mark,
Zachary and I exchanged PM's and all good.

 

[Combat]

I think a valid criticism of toy soldiers is that they overly glamourize war. It's mostly depictions of nice uniforms and machines etc. History and war are ugly. They raise a lot of uncomfortable issues. I can understand many collectors not wanting to deal with that and just enjoying their collection but it does sanitize things that have happened. As a result, I don't have any issue with these types of realistic depictions taken from history and quite frankly in the age of the Internet and cable TV, there is an endless stream of access to violence, murder, and any other thing imaginable. This is pretty mild by comparison.

 

[nysoldiers]

I think a valid criticism of toy soldiers is that they overly glamourize war. It's mostly depictions of nice uniforms and machines etc. History and war are ugly. They raise a lot of uncomfortable issues. I can understand many collectors not wanting to deal with that and just enjoying their collection but it does sanitize things that have happened. As a result, I don't have any issue with these types of realistic depictions taken from history and quite frankly in the age of the Internet and cable TV, there is an endless stream of access to violence, murder, and any other thing imaginable. This is pretty mild by comparison.

Good points....
In the holiday spirit I would just like to add my personal observations and concerns. My children, grandchildren and friends have always been welcome to view my collection. I have donated dioramas to over 30 museums,libraries and schools to be used as teaching tools.
We as collectors should be prepared to explain the events and battles we depict to children and young students, they are very impressionable. History can be complex, brutal and emotional. This is why I won't collect or display certain subject matter which could be misinterpreted as glorifying or trivializing wars and acts of depravity. The horror and brutality of war can never be truly conveyed with "toy soldiers" but they can be used as a catalyst for more study, research and discussions.
If your collections are strictly for your own enjoyment or to be shared with other "adults" that's your business. When exposed to young people, however, I think we have a responsibility to be sensitive to their levels of understanding.

Just my opinion based on my experiences.

 

[tdubel]

Good points....
In the holiday spirit I would just like to add my personal observations and concerns. My children, grandchildren and friends have always been welcome to view my collection. I have donated dioramas to over 30 museums,libraries and schools to be used as teaching tools.
We as collectors should be prepared to explain the events and battles we depict to children and young students, they are very impressionable. History can be complex, brutal and emotional. This is why I won't collect or display certain subject matter which could be misinterpreted as glorifying or trivializing wars and acts of depravity. The horror and brutality of war can never be truly conveyed with "toy soldiers" but they can be used as a catalyst for more study, research and discussions.
If your collections are strictly for your own enjoyment or to be shared with other "adults" that's your business. When exposed to young people, however, I think we have a responsibility to be sensitive to their levels of understanding.

Just my opinion based on my experiences.

Yup, definition of being a good "parent", I don't santize things with my own son, but as he got older, realism increased as I think he could handle it. When younger, we focused mainly on big picture, patriotism and the like. Now, he is learning specifics about Genghis Khan, The Vikings and Attila, much different depiction.

TD

 

[Desertkiwi]

An interesting thread. I can't say that I'm offended by the figures themselves or the subject matter. In fact one of the many things I enjoy about the hobby is learning more about such conflicts through the release of different ranges by many different manufacturers.

The timing of the release could have been a little more sensitive given it's Christmas, but clearly their release wasn't meant to cause offence.

 

[tryfon]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Great detail

however not interested in this period, so many historical battles and war, Chinese stuff does not compare to Napoleonic Wars, Crusades, WW2 etc etc etc.

Would like to see their Napoleonic range expanded, the French are fantastic, do some Brits etc

 

[TeamMiniatures]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Great detail

however not interested in this period, so many historical battles and war, Chinese stuff does not compare to Napoleonic Wars, Crusades, WW2 etc etc etc.

Would like to see their Napoleonic range expanded, the French are fantastic, do some Brits etc

Tryfon, many thanks for your suggestions, as well as other collectors who have provided some suggestions!
Our email often receives email suggestions from some guests, their suggestions are also various, we will consider them carefully and reply the relevant email. But some of them are inconvenient for us to reply, excuse me.
Here, I'd like to take this opportunity to show an attitude. When developing the products of new series, our company has a principle that we will avoid the themes of K & C, JJ and so on as much as possible, because the styles of all companies are similar. We try to develop some new themes for collectors, so that our collectors have more choices. We didn't consider too many other business factors, that's our principle.
It can also be said that "As long as there is a lovely collector who likes our products, even when our company falls down, I will also smile!"

All the best,

TM Jack

 

[Desertkiwi]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Tryfon, many thanks for your suggestions, as well as other collectors who have provided some suggestions!
Our email often receives email suggestions from some guests, their suggestions are also various, we will consider them carefully and reply the relevant email. But some of them are inconvenient for us to reply, excuse me.
Here, I'd like to take this opportunity to show an attitude. When developing the products of new series, our company has a principle that we will avoid the themes of K & C, JJ and so on as much as possible, because the styles of all companies are similar. We try to develop some new themes for collectors, so that our collectors have more choices. We didn't consider too many other business factors, that's our principle.
It can also be said that "As long as there is a lovely collector who likes our products, even when our company falls down, I will also smile!"

All the best,

TM Jack

Jack, my advice would be find a TS niche and develop it. Obviously you need to make money, but don't discount you're Boxer range based upon a few negative comments on TF. I can imagine the Chinese domestic market has huge potential. Maybe consider the Japanese invasion of China prior to the start of WW2?

Mind you many historians believe the Chinese invasion of Japan was the true start of WW2. I think the early Asian conflicts in WW2 are over looked...…..

 

[TeamMiniatures]

Re: New Releases for December 2019 - Massacre of missionaries and Chinese Christians

Jack, my advice would be find a TS niche and develop it. Obviously you need to make money, but don't discount you're Boxer range based upon a few negative comments on TF. I can imagine the Chinese domestic market has huge potential. Maybe consider the Japanese invasion of China prior to the start of WW2?

Mind you many historians believe the Chinese invasion of Japan was the true start of WW2. I think the early Asian conflicts in WW2 are over looked...…..

Thank you very much for your advice! This is a very good advice. To show the real history with our works is what we need to do. We don't comment on it from our own point of view, because it's history, and I don't mind.
When different people see the same work, some people think it's a "hero", very brave. But some people think it's "stupid" and very ignorant behavior. Different perspectives, different viewpoints.
I'm willing to accept your suggestions, because I'm a "novice" and just on the way, and I hope you can give me more advice.

Best wishes and thanks,

TM Jack

 

[sapper]

I purchased some of the new boxer figures and I like them. I'm going to build another diorama to go beside the completed one to enlarge the scene. Another couple of foreign coalition countries would really enhance the battle. Greg.

 

[enricoquinto]

I purchased some of the new boxer figures and I like them. I'm going to build another diorama to go beside the completed one to enlarge the scene. Another couple of foreign coalition countries would really enhance the battle. Greg.

Hey Greg,

your diorama looks great! If you ask me you have been well bought! I really love those new figures and I look forward to pick them up too!


Cheers

Enrico

P.s. speaking about foreign coalition country...a little bird told me that Italian "bersaglieri" might be added... {eek3}

 

[NZGary]

I really like the Boxer and Christian figures. Colourful. vibrant and action packed.