New Winter Tiger (1 Viewer)

Hi Paul,

thanks for the prompt response.

i believe you totally now - you had me at the mention of "Fedorowicz."

i had a few of their books, absolute gems.

I missed the white tiger pics too (but if someone as knowledgeable as Frank can miss them, i'll forgive myself ;))

Trojca are great too.

Sincerely,

nasir kasmani.
 
uksubs said:
Great work Paul ;)

I've just check up the unit history in my book Tiger on the western front by Jean Restayn & it show the pic of the two destroyed tigers + a colour profile of the Tiger in white :eek:
Only down side is next to the picture there a side note saying that expert Marcus Jaugitz talked to former members of 301 & they said no Tigers from there unit were painted white :(:confused:
Click to expand...



Thanks uksubs,


I understand the confusion, but if you look at the picture you have, you will see the Jerry Can holders that are welded to the Tiger 1 stowage bin.

The Tiger 1 pictured is surely from a Funklenkpanzer, unit.

This picture needs more study.

I don't have any of Jean Restayn's books, what year was the book published, are they good books?




Paul
 
IXEC said:
Thanks uksubs,


I understand the confusion, but if you look at the picture you have, you will see the Jerry Can holders that are welded to the Tiger 1 stowage bin.

The Tiger 1 pictured is surely from a Funklenkpanzer, unit.

This picture needs more study.

I don't have any of Jean Restayn's books, what year was the book published, are they good books?




Paul
Click to expand...

Hi Paul yes your right you can see the Jerry Can holders that are welded to the Tiger 1 stowage bin
The Jean Restayn's book is very good , my favourite reference books are Tigers in Combat by Wolfgang Schneider
I will try a post some pics
 
There more that wrong with the Tiger than just the paint job to :(
It would be a lot easy to just call it a Eastern Front Tiger to don't you think:confused:
 
uksubs said:
Hi Paul yes your right you can see the Jerry Can holders that are welded to the Tiger 1 stowage bin
The Jean Restayn's book is very good , my favourite reference books are Tigers in Combat by Wolfgang Schneider
I will try a post some pics
Click to expand...


Thank's uksubs,

I also have Schneider two books, their great.

My Funklenkpanzer book was published in 2001.

Can you tell me what year the Jean Restayn's book was published, its important to know, thanks.



Paul
 
IXEC said:
Thank's uksubs,

I also have Schneider two books, their great.

My Funklenkpanzer book was published in 2001.

Can you tell me what year the Jean Restayn's book was published, its important to know, thanks.



Paul
Click to expand...

Hi Paul Jean Restayn's book was published in 2003
 
fmethorst said:
Hi Paul,

Congrats on your win. :)

Awesome find on the additional Tiger 1s in the Ardennes. I went through the German OOB (Order of Battle) for "Wacht am Rhein" a while ago and I missed it because my reference has this unit subordinate to the 9th Panzer Division. After reading your post I quickly found it.

Now, as for whitewash, the problem I have is that there wasn't snow on the ground when the offensive kicked off Dec. 16. It doesn't make sense for whitewash to be applied without snow. This means it would have had to been applied part way into the offensive after it snowed. Do crews carry this type of supply? Is this a maintenance unit task? Certainly all the pictures I have of Tiger IIs and Panthers show late war factory paint schemes. I would love to examine these whitewashed Tiger I pictures if anyone could post them.

Thanks for your persistance.
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Your welcome Frank,


On order of the AHA Stab 1, Panzer-Abteilung ( Fkl ) 301 was renamed and reorganized as, schwere Panzer-Abteilung ( Tiger/Fkl ) 301 on September 2nd 1944. The unit had been withdrawn from the Eastern Front at the end of August and transferred to the Grafenwohr training area for refit.

The battalion consisted of a headquarters, a headquarters company, three tank companies, a supply company and a maintenance company.

The majority of the heavy tanks were repaired vehicles or came from an armor unit in the process of reequipping.

The units maintenance company were given two Bergepanthers.

I'd really like to know what paint scheme these Bergepanthers had in mid-Jan. 1945.

I hope this answers your questions, Frank.

One more thing though,

The White Washed pictuce I have of the Ardennes area Tiger 1, can not be a misidentified Eastern Front photo, because the 301 didn't have their Tiger I mounts on the Eastern Front. As the above info proves.

And even if some of the veterans of the 301 didn't see any of their Tiger 1's painted in White Wash..... The picture speaks for itself. :)



Paul
 
Dragon make 1/35 schwere Panzer-Abteilung ( Tiger/Fkl ) 301 Tiger 1
his amazing model shows tank number 213 of Pz.Abt.301.

This tank unit supported Heeres Gruppe B in the Ardennes offensive in late 1944, where it paid a heavy toll in vehicles destroyed. Numerous Tigers were lost in the fighting in late December through to early January, before the remainder withdrew to refit in the Köln area of Germany. The unit remained on the Western Front until the war ended. This large-scale model from Dragon Armor sports a distinctive “stripy” three-color camouflage scheme. It has also received a light layer of weathering - this is especially obvious in places like the spare track links hung on the turret sides, as well as the metallic-looking track runs. This scale model is made to the highest standards of accuracy and craftsmanship, completely ready to defend its territory as Allied units threaten the Fatherland.
1121rnys0.jpg
 
fmethorst said:
It doesn't translate directly but from an armored organizational level it roughly translates to battalion.
Click to expand...

Frank is right.

So citing an example of SS schwere panzer abteilung 101, this will roughly translates to SS heavy tank battalion 101.
 
IXEC said:
Your welcome Frank,


On order of the AHA Stab 1, Panzer-Abteilung ( Fkl ) 301 was renamed and reorganized as, schwere Panzer-Abteilung ( Tiger/Fkl ) 301 on September 2nd 1944. The unit had been withdrawn from the Eastern Front at the end of August and transferred to the Grafenwohr training area for refit.

The battalion consisted of a headquarters, a headquarters company, three tank companies, a supply company and a maintenance company.

The majority of the heavy tanks were repaired vehicles or came from an armor unit in the process of reequipping.

The units maintenance company were given two Bergepanthers.

I'd really like to know what paint scheme these Bergepanthers had in mid-Jan. 1945.

I hope this answers your questions, Frank.

One more thing though,

The White Washed pictuce I have of the Ardennes area Tiger 1, can not be a misidentified Eastern Front photo, because the 301 didn't have their Tiger I mounts on the Eastern Front. As the above info proves.

And even if some of the veterans of the 301 didn't see any of their Tiger 1's painted in White Wash..... The picture speaks for itself. :)



Paul
Click to expand...

Did 301 fight in the Bulge ?
I've been told they did not :confused:
 
uksubs said:
Did 301 fight in the Bulge ?
I've been told they did not :confused:
Click to expand...


Yes uksubs,

The Ardennes was a Campaign that involved at first the German offense and then the defensive.

It began on Dec.16th 1944 and ended Fed.7th 1945

The Allies counter offensive was part of this Ardennes Campaign. And in the north in British sector of the counter offensive, they took on the 301.

My father's unit was surrounded by the German's in this Campaign and were forced to blowup their airfield and retreat because of fears by command of German Paratroopers in the area.

His unit the 818th Engineer Aviation Battalion earned a Battle Star for their participation in the Ardennes Campaign.

My father was also nominated for the Bronze Star medal during this Campaign.



Paul
 
IXEC said:
Yes uksubs,

The Ardennes was a Campaign that involved at first the German offense and then the defensive.

It began on Dec.16th 1944 and ended Fed.7th 1945

The Allies counter offensive was part of this Ardennes Campaign. And in the north in British sector of the counter offensive, they took on the 301.

My father's unit was surrounded by the German's in this Campaign and were forced to blowup their airfield and retreat because of fears by command of German Paratroopers in the area.

His unit the 818th Engineer Aviation Battalion earned a Battle Star for their participation in the Ardennes Campaign.

My father was also nominated for the Bronze Star medal during this Campaign.



Paul
Click to expand...

If you look at this map of the Battle of the Bugle you can see how far the Germans advanced & you can see Geilenkirchen is not in the Bugle but in Germany so I don't think you can say that the action at Geilenkirchen was part of the battle of the Bugle
bulgemap1eleh2.jpg


That what I'm being told , but you could be right :confused:
Paul do you have some photos of your Dad in the army that you could post ?
 
uksubs said:
If you look at this map of the Battle of the Bugle you can see how far the Germans advanced & you can see Geilenkirchen is not in the Bugle but in Germany so I don't think you can say that the action at Geilenkirchen was part of the battle of the Bugle
bulgemap1eleh2.jpg


That what I'm being told , but you could be right :confused:
Paul do you have some photos of your Dad in the army that you could post ?
Click to expand...



You can make that argument uksubs.


You are looking at the German Offensive only. I'm looking at the Whole Ardennes Campaign. And in this respect, the 301st was part of it.

That's a good picture of the map, can you post the picture of the White Tiger I ? :)

I'm not good at posting pictures, my dad's as well. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. My avitar was the unit patch my dad wore, the 9th Engineer Command, IXEC



Paul
 
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