Nfl season 2017-2018 (2 Viewers)

Not to belittle an injury, but I'm killing myself laughing over this post................yeah, just wonderful dropping back to pass and seeing some lunatic charging at you trying to end your life. No "Brady rule" bullshit in those days, killing the QB was allowed and encouraged.
That was when the NFL was fun!! I can’t tell you how much I miss Lawrence Taylor’s tomahawk sacks, or Mike Singletary putting the fear of god into slot receivers foolish enough to try to catch a pass across the middle! Football is a gladiatorial sport, and the reason it is losing popularity is by attempting to legislate the violence out of the sport they have alienated fans, like me, who would much rather see one really good vicious hit than 25 touchdown passes. The only reason it hasn’t completely imploded is the kids playing fantasy football.
 
Then there was Sammy Baugh! Took a viscious hit, then drilled at pass at the guy responsible on the next play and knocked him cold. Yeah, I enjoy good, clean hits but lament the career-ending injuries and brain injuries that are so cruel. Won't offer my views on the high salary scale, nor on the petty policies played by the owners. (Are you listening Dean Spanos?)

Bosun Al
 
That was when the NFL was fun!! I can’t tell you how much I miss Lawrence Taylor’s tomahawk sacks, or Mike Singletary putting the fear of god into slot receivers foolish enough to try to catch a pass across the middle! Football is a gladiatorial sport, and the reason it is losing popularity is by attempting to legislate the violence out of the sport they have alienated fans, like me, who would much rather see one really good vicious hit than 25 touchdown passes. The only reason it hasn’t completely imploded is the kids playing fantasy football.

They're legislating the violence out of the sport due to CTE, there's nothing wrong with that. What I don't like is the ticky tack penalties that get called all in the name of player safety that are anything but penalties. When someone lights up a guy with a vicious helmet to helmet hit, then fine, but when it's all shoulder or a clean tackle and it still gets called, that's when they lose me.

With more and more parents no longer allowing their kids to play football, the sport will be dead in 20 years anyway..................
 
That was when the NFL was fun!! I can’t tell you how much I miss Lawrence Taylor’s tomahawk sacks, or Mike Singletary putting the fear of god into slot receivers foolish enough to try to catch a pass across the middle! Football is a gladiatorial sport, and the reason it is losing popularity is by attempting to legislate the violence out of the sport they have alienated fans, like me, who would much rather see one really good vicious hit than 25 touchdown passes. The only reason it hasn’t completely imploded is the kids playing fantasy football.

At the expense of people’s lives and well being?
 
At the expense of people’s lives and well being?

For what those guys get paid, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Check out the debilitating diseases and injuries faced by Coal Miners, Iron Workers, Commercial Fisherman, G.I.'s and countless other professions who earn a tiny fraction of what football players make. For 20 millions dollars over a career I would do it, much less the more than 20 million dollars a year top NFL players make.
 
It's not a competition to see who can suffer the most debilitating disease. Most players aren't earning top money and careers are short. For the various injuries they face after they retire, not to mention the difficulties they face in seeking compensation from the NFL, the money they earn is hardly worth it.

Perhaps you'd prefer we return to the gladiatorial combat of Ancient Rome.
 
It's not a competition to see who can suffer the most debilitating disease. Most players aren't earning top money and careers are short. For the various injuries they face after they retire, not to mention the difficulties they face in seeking compensation from the NFL, the money they earn is hardly worth it.

Perhaps you'd prefer we return to the gladiatorial combat of Ancient Rome.
There is absolutely no evidence that the rule changes will reduce the incidence of CTE. There are still plenty of concussions. And your argument absurdio is a poor analogy. I’m talking about hard hitting football the way it has always been played, not killing dozens of men every Sunday.
 
The number of concussions is down. See https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/...ine.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/

So you’d rather do nothing and try not to make the game safer? Asinine. It’s not only a health issue but a PR issue. If they don’t try to make the game safer, less and less people will want to let their children play it and lawsuits will continue to proliferate. To do nothing is not an option.

As for the analogy being poor, is condemning men to a lifetime of dementia and suicide any less than actual bloodletting.

At any rate, no matter what we may say here the game has changed and for the better.
 
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You want to make the game safer, invent better equipment. As far as the PR is concerned, if making the game safer by changing the rules to protect only QB’s and WR is such a PR coupe, why are ratings and game attendance in the toilet?

Last time I checked, unlike your strained analogy, NFL players aren’t slaves forced to slaughter each other at spear point. They choose to pursue the NFL and only the very best make it. As a result they are paid a fortune. In every other profession, you assume the risks of the job, and are precluded from suing your employer in exchange for workers compensation. Why are football players different then the millions of other workers on far more dangerous jobs, many of whom actually face death on a day to day basis? The last time I checked people are entitled to assume risks in performing their jobs. Ask a real hero like a serviceman, fireman or police officer. I reiterate that right now, at 50 years old with a bad back, if one of the NFL Owners was dumb enough to offer me $1,000,000 to play one year, knowing full well I would be crippled and brain damaged, I would sign the contract without a moment of hesitation. Having the opportunity to ensure my children’s future at the cost of my own would make it an easy choice. And what about the linemen, running backs and defensive players not protected by the “defenseless receiver” or “Brady Rule”? It seems that the NFL is only interested in protecting the big name players that generate revenue. By the way, Brad, have you ever worked a hazardous job, or played a violent team sport on an organized level? You might have a different opinion if you saw the rules of a sport you loved to play altered beyond recognition. I hate the NFL the way it is presently played. I used to have season tickets. I haven’t gone to a game in years. The BS rule changes and poor officiating resulting from Roger Goodell’s stewardship are the reason for that. I always find it amusing when someone refers to someone else’s opinion as assinine when they are in disagreement. Throwing insults is a surefire way to identify the person who lacks the knowledge to back up their opinion with a cogent argument.
 
I don’t have the time nor the inclination to argue with you. You made your points, I disagree. I made my points, you disagree. We’ll leave it at that. Fortunately, yours is not the prevailing philosophy. Adiós.
 
Both the owners and players have decided they prefer the money to safety. The obvious thing to do if safety was paramount would be reduce the number of games back to 14. But neither the players or owners will ever do that because it means they make less money. I think they have the right to decide. Football is a violent sport. Players are going to get hurt. I agree that the silly rules are mostly to give the appearance of concern for safety but make little relative difference in the number of injuries. Guys do pay a health price in the long term. Their bodies take a beating. But they also make more money in a season than the average person might make in a lifetime.
 
Both the owners and players have decided they prefer the money to safety. The obvious thing to do if safety was paramount would be reduce the number of games back to 14. But neither the players or owners will ever do that because it means they make less money. I think they have the right to decide. Football is a violent sport. Players are going to get hurt. I agree that the silly rules are mostly to give the appearance of concern for safety but make little relative difference in the number of injuries. Guys do pay a health price in the long term. Their bodies take a beating. But they also make more money in a season than the average person might make in a lifetime.

I think you are right on a lot of levels. End of day, money prevails and football is violent. I also agree the rules are for the most part not doing anything to limit the safety issues as to another point on here, there are a lot of concussions on a weekly basis that are not the result of "illegal hits".

I have given up understanding a lot of the rules. I also have given up on why there are so many games, it becomes a war of attrition. Most teams limp into the playoffs literally. Finally, I also think it is a conscious choice to play football, it is a way to make more money than any other for sure. End of day, its a choice. It is the same choice Boxers and MMA fighters face. Every boxer knows that if you do it too long, you will suffer brain damage no matter how good you are. It is a choice they make for the millions they earn.

I do believe just like boxing is today, there will be less and less talent in football as time goes on, kids enrollment in the pee wee leagues is way down in a lot of areas, the talent is declining (sheer mathematics, the less participation, the less talent), etc.

TD
 
That was when the NFL was fun!! I can’t tell you how much I miss Lawrence Taylor’s tomahawk sacks, or Mike Singletary putting the fear of god into slot receivers foolish enough to try to catch a pass across the middle! Football is a gladiatorial sport, and the reason it is losing popularity is by attempting to legislate the violence out of the sport they have alienated fans, like me, who would much rather see one really good vicious hit than 25 touchdown passes. The only reason it hasn’t completely imploded is the kids playing fantasy football.

This almost sounds sadistic. Does a tackle or block have to be “violent” to be worthy of admiration?

It’s pretty easy to talk tough from the couch. Voyerism can be enticing, like pornography. Sort of like how war is cool from afar. Not so much up close (I imagine).

Singletary and Taylor might be overmatched in todays game. The size, speed and strength of these phycical freaks is beyond comprehension. When Refrigerator Perry broke into the NFL at plus 300 lbs he was a sensation. Now 300 lbs is nothing special. There is no equipment that can be invented that can fully protect these speeding behemoths from injuring one another, short of force fields that eliminate real contact.

How much time do you spend in the gym getting your body in NFL shape? I suspect none. You seem to have zero appreciation for the real life body mechanics on the field. Those beasts are legitimately deadly weapons, especially when padded up and encased in hard plastic.

You have no data to back up your contention that the reason it’s losing popularity is because it’s trying to legislate out violence. In fact, most fans have not abandoned the game for a lack of violence. They’ve left because of the politics/kneeling, of the grotesque player behavior off the field, the overly corporate feel of the games, the poor sportsmanship, the antiseptic nature of indoor stadiums, the frustratingly slow pace of games with absurd numbers of commercials/time outs, the big money feel etc.

The truth is, there are ways to hit people hard, safely. That’s what they are trying to encourage, and most reasonable people understand why that makes sense.

Tommy Nobis, a great player and human being, recently died here in Atlanta. His life was cut woefully short, and his later years were awful, from what I hear, due to all the punishment he took playing the sport. That’s not glory, that’s tragic.
 
This almost sounds sadistic. Does a tackle or block have to be “violent” to be worthy of admiration?

It’s pretty easy to talk tough from the couch. Voyerism can be enticing, like pornography. Sort of like how war is cool from afar. Not so much up close (I imagine).

Singletary and Taylor might be overmatched in todays game. The size, speed and strength of these phycical freaks is beyond comprehension. When Refrigerator Perry broke into the NFL at plus 300 lbs he was a sensation. Now 300 lbs is nothing special. There is no equipment that can be invented that can fully protect these speeding behemoths from injuring one another, short of force fields that eliminate real contact.

How much time do you spend in the gym getting your body in NFL shape? I suspect none. You seem to have zero appreciation for the real life body mechanics on the field. Those beasts are legitimately deadly weapons, especially when padded up and encased in hard plastic.

You have no data to back up your contention that the reason it’s losing popularity is because it’s trying to legislate out violence. In fact, most fans have not abandoned the game for a lack of violence. They’ve left because of the politics/kneeling, of the grotesque player behavior off the field, the overly corporate feel of the games, the poor sportsmanship, the antiseptic nature of indoor stadiums, the frustratingly slow pace of games with absurd numbers of commercials/time outs, the big money feel etc.

The truth is, there are ways to hit people hard, safely. That’s what they are trying to encourage, and most reasonable people understand why that makes sense.

Tommy Nobis, a great player and human being, recently died here in Atlanta. His life was cut woefully short, and his later years were awful, from what I hear, due to all the punishment he took playing the sport. That’s not glory, that’s tragic.
Sorry to hear about the passing of Tommy Nobis. He was a great linebacker and one of the best reasons to watch the early Falcons. There was absolutely no mention of his death in the local news here in DC that I ever heard or read. RIP, Tommy. -- Al
 
You want to make the game safer, invent better equipment. As far as the PR is concerned, if making the game safer by changing the rules to protect only QB’s and WR is such a PR coupe, why are ratings and game attendance in the toilet?

Last time I checked, unlike your strained analogy, NFL players aren’t slaves forced to slaughter each other at spear point. They choose to pursue the NFL and only the very best make it. As a result they are paid a fortune. In every other profession, you assume the risks of the job, and are precluded from suing your employer in exchange for workers compensation. Why are football players different then the millions of other workers on far more dangerous jobs, many of whom actually face death on a day to day basis? The last time I checked people are entitled to assume risks in performing their jobs. Ask a real hero like a serviceman, fireman or police officer. I reiterate that right now, at 50 years old with a bad back, if one of the NFL Owners was dumb enough to offer me $1,000,000 to play one year, knowing full well I would be crippled and brain damaged, I would sign the contract without a moment of hesitation. Having the opportunity to ensure my children’s future at the cost of my own would make it an easy choice. And what about the linemen, running backs and defensive players not protected by the “defenseless receiver” or “Brady Rule”? It seems that the NFL is only interested in protecting the big name players that generate revenue. By the way, Brad, have you ever worked a hazardous job, or played a violent team sport on an organized level? You might have a different opinion if you saw the rules of a sport you loved to play altered beyond recognition. I hate the NFL the way it is presently played. I used to have season tickets. I haven’t gone to a game in years. The BS rule changes and poor officiating resulting from Roger Goodell’s stewardship are the reason for that. I always find it amusing when someone refers to someone else’s opinion as assinine when they are in disagreement. Throwing insults is a surefire way to identify the person who lacks the knowledge to back up their opinion with a cogent argument.


So you'd take a million bucks to end up crippled with brain damage?

Sorry, I can't understand that line of thinking at all. These guys are dying horrible deaths; ALS is brutal, your body goes but your mind is still sharp. Watch the movie concussion and see how some of the former Steelers who were the first team to use steroids ended up checking out. Everytime you turn around, you hear of another player who's having issues now and it is depressing as anything.

It might sound simple to take the money and run, but its a horrible, tragic way to die.

No thanks.
 
This almost sounds sadistic. Does a tackle or block have to be “violent” to be worthy of admiration?

It’s pretty easy to talk tough from the couch. Voyerism can be enticing, like pornography. Sort of like how war is cool from afar. Not so much up close (I imagine).

Singletary and Taylor might be overmatched in todays game. The size, speed and strength of these phycical freaks is beyond comprehension. When Refrigerator Perry broke into the NFL at plus 300 lbs he was a sensation. Now 300 lbs is nothing special. There is no equipment that can be invented that can fully protect these speeding behemoths from injuring one another, short of force fields that eliminate real contact.

How much time do you spend in the gym getting your body in NFL shape? I suspect none. You seem to have zero appreciation for the real life body mechanics on the field. Those beasts are legitimately deadly weapons, especially when padded up and encased in hard plastic.

You have no data to back up your contention that the reason it’s losing popularity is because it’s trying to legislate out violence. In fact, most fans have not abandoned the game for a lack of violence. They’ve left because of the politics/kneeling, of the grotesque player behavior off the field, the overly corporate feel of the games, the poor sportsmanship, the antiseptic nature of indoor stadiums, the frustratingly slow pace of games with absurd numbers of commercials/time outs, the big money feel etc.

The truth is, there are ways to hit people hard, safely. That’s what they are trying to encourage, and most reasonable people understand why that makes sense.

Tommy Nobis, a great player and human being, recently died here in Atlanta. His life was cut woefully short, and his later years were awful, from what I hear, due to all the punishment he took playing the sport. That’s not glory, that’s tragic.

At 50 years old and post-back surgery with permanent nerve damage, obviously I have no ability to get myself into game shape. Nor was I ever big enough, fast enough or good enough to play at the NFL level. However, I played both Ice Hockey and Football in high school, and Rugby in college, so I am not without some knowledge of the work it takes to get in shape, and what its like to give and take hits. My point was, that even in the shape I am now, knowing I would get crippled, I would sign a contract to play for the average NFL salary in a heartbeat. Football, like boxing, or any number of less glorious occupations, carries a very real risk of occupational injury/disease with it. If a soldier, marine, police officer, fireman, iron worker or deep sea fisherman is obligated to assume the risk of their occupations, why should we treat Quarterbacks and Wide Receivers differently? And why are offensive linemen, running backs and defensive players not worthy of being afforded the same protection as QB's and receivers? And finally, what evidence is there that any of the changes have actually prevented concussions and other injuries? I still see players getting concussions every game. Wouldn't eliminating Thursday games, and reducing the number of games in a season back to 14 do more to prevent concussions than these B.S. rule changes? But that would cost the NFL revenue.

Additionally, from the players standpoint, football, like boxing, or Rugby, or Ice Hockey, is by its nature a very violent sport. I cannot recall watching a single NFL or College game where there was not at least one injury. When you choose to play the sport you go in knowing that you can get injured on every play. And the rule changes only protect two classes of players, QB's and receivers. A running back who goes helmet to helmet on a safety gets the same concussion, without the 15 yard penalty. And any offensive player can go helmet to helmet on any defensive player, without any protection within the rules. If you are going to ruin the game, at least be consistent.

My point in the rule changes don't really protect anyone. They create more offense (which I would argue is the real reason for the rule changes) which has radically changed the balance of the game, making it, for many people who grew up NFL fans in the 70's and 80's, unwatchable. The only vote I have in what the NFL does with its rules, is with my wallet. I have chosen not to spend money on the product the NFL is producing today. I used to go to 8 games a season, plus playoffs and at least one preseason game. I gave up my season tickets when they came up with the concept of "ticket licenses," as I refused to pay for the right to pay for my season tickets. I am not the only one, as their used to be a long waiting list for season tickets, and now the local teams advertise desperately seeking season ticket buyers.

I used to watch every game available on television as well. This season I only watched the Giants. Again, I am not the only one dissatisfied with the NFL's product. For me it is the game being watered down. As you mentioned, some others might be aggravated by the protests of the national anthem. Whatever then reason, ratings (and thus TV revenues) were down significantly.

Finally, as to your point about Lawrence Taylor, he was the same size and speed as the linebackers playing today, and was double and triple teamed on every play, and still dominated the league. I think he would still be a dominant force, even though the offensive linemen (who averaged about 290 lbs in 1990) now average north of 300. Your point about Perry is a bit misleading. Perry was a defensive tackle. At the time defensive tackles averaged about 265, and he was 320, that was the big deal. But then, as now, offensive linemen were much larger than defensive linemen. That being said, you really can't compare players era to era. The greatest defensive linemen of all time, Deacon Jones, would be way to small to play defensive line today. The great Steelers linebackers of the 70's would be smaller than safeties are today. But they still hit like trucks.
 
So you'd take a million bucks to end up crippled with brain damage?

Sorry, I can't understand that line of thinking at all. These guys are dying horrible deaths; ALS is brutal, your body goes but your mind is still sharp. Watch the movie concussion and see how some of the former Steelers who were the first team to use steroids ended up checking out. Everytime you turn around, you hear of another player who's having issues now and it is depressing as anything.

It might sound simple to take the money and run, but its a horrible, tragic way to die.

No thanks.

George,

I totally respect where you are coming from. For me, its about making sure my kids have everything, and don't have to struggle like I did when I was young to afford a decent education. My kids won't have to, as I already have their college tuition safely in accounts for them. But if I didn't, and I were a young kid coming out of college drafted by an NFL team, especially as most of these kids come from tougher backgrounds than you and I, I would sign on the dotted line, and put every dollar of my signing bonus into a trust for my family.
 
At the point of sounding like a broken record, in the 2016 season, concussions had decreased, so some of these rules changes are having an effect. They have not decreased enough but it's a start. At the sake of agreeing with Mr. Badolato, reducing the amount of games (such as eliminating Thursday night games) would further reduce the possibility of concussions and other injuries. However, since the NFL is in the business of making money, they're trying to find the right mix between rules promoting safety and play that will hold the fans' attention.

As far as young kids coming out of college and choosing to play or not to play in the NFL, although this is anecdotal evidence, there was a young LB with the 49ers, Chris Borland, hose career was very promising, who chose to retire rather than risk concussions. See https://www.buzzfeed.com/lindseyadl...due-to-concern?utm_term=.yfrZ6GdX2#.mcBanJYvA. 10 years ago that would have been unheard of. Is this a trend? Too early to say.
 
why should we treat Quarterbacks and Wide Receivers differently? And why are offensive linemen, running backs and defensive players not worthy of being afforded the same protection as QB's and receivers? And finally, what evidence is there that any of the changes have actually prevented concussions and other injuries? I still see players getting concussions every game. Wouldn't eliminating Thursday games, and reducing the number of games in a season back to 14 do more to prevent concussions than these B.S. rule changes? But that would cost the NFL revenue.


Finally, as to your point about Lawrence Taylor, he was the same size and speed as the linebackers playing today, and was double and triple teamed on every play, and still dominated the league. I think he would still be a dominant force, even though the offensive linemen (who averaged about 290 lbs in 1990) now average north of 300. Your point about Perry is a bit misleading. Perry was a defensive tackle. At the time defensive tackles averaged about 265, and he was 320, that was the big deal. But then, as now, offensive linemen were much larger than defensive linemen. That being said, you really can't compare players era to era. The greatest defensive linemen of all time, Deacon Jones, would be way to small to play defensive line today. The great Steelers linebackers of the 70's would be smaller than safeties are today. But they still hit like trucks.

In fact, there are very good reasons to treat certain players "differently", and they do so consistently. Consider the long snapper:
"...the NCAA also has Rule 9-1-2-o that prohibits a defensive player from making contact with the snapper until one second has elapsed after the snap....during a punt, field-goal attempt, or a Kick Try, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage at the snap, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads."

Certain players are in positions where they can be blindsided with no opportunity to defend themselves. NFL Quarterbacks would have a career of about 12 minutes if vicious blind side late hits were permitted, wouldn't you agree? Why prohibit blindside late hits if you are such a fan of violence in football? Let the dogs loose! Same with receivers, running backs and punters. If there weren't protections from certain type of undue hits, there would be more players paralyzed, brain injured and otherwise physically damaged. Moreover, fumbles would be much more frequent because a player would be forced to defend themselves more and not the ball.

In fact, lineman do have protections against cut blocks, whacks to the head, face masks and other actions that can injure or damage a player. But typically, they are facing their opponent and dont need the extra protection afforded ball carriers and the like.

Im not comparing era to era. Im saying that the players of today are, on average, of a size and speed and strength that are unprecedented. One cannot responsibly turn them loose on each other without constraint. As it is, the long term consequences of playing at the NFL can be brutal. See Mike Webster.
 

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