Resale market collapse (1 Viewer)

[Njja]

I agree that the hunt is part of the fun.I have only bought a couple of things off ebay and they weren't toy soldier related but I can sense some of the frustration of others seeing what they have been looking for and not being able to afford it.You seem to know all the ends and outs of hunting for items but many don't.Mark

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Mark:

I have been doing this since 1972 And I agree it can be frustating at times! But it is always fun!

Right now I am actively involved in 13 different fields.....and I routinely get my butt kicked by many other collectors!

I have one fellow (in another field) that never bids on an auction.....so you never know what he is interested in, but he wins every auction at the last

second no matter what the bid is!

In another field we have a high roller that wins all the best items then relists them at an even higher price the next day! The collectors in that field

love this guy.....no one will bid on his items, but he could care less.

So its all fun, and $$$$ isn't always the answer, its usually being in the right place at the right time.

 

[panzeraces]

I tell you something most of us do understand,forum etiquette and manners.If you want to ra ra FL/Tamiya or another company perhaps you should take it to their thread.

Rob

Rob, as someone new to the site are you not going against the very manners etc which, you criticise from this blogger. He has a right to state any opinion he wishes and, its not for any one person to explain the rules of the site which, in my opinion just seem to be something which you do not agree with. Its a bit like kettle frying pan... black.

 

[forlornhoper]

Similar to Rob ,i want my collection containing vehicles,planes and figures to have a certain look,therefore i will not entertain early K&C pieces that in my opinion dont conform to the desired look.I always think long and hard before i add to my collection,the present range of K&C products more than deliver for me personally therefore i rarely venture too far into the retired products . ken

 

[Njja]

For me the "hunt" means nothing....most of us can "afford" to purchase "retired" overpriced K/C items but we choose not to....Why?? GUESS......They are over-priced and simply not worth it......I would much rather purchase Figarti or First Legion.....Better products at fairer prices....VERY SIMPLE for most of us to understand.

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I think the problem here is the term "most of us" when you are speaking about your opinions.

I can't imagine a situation where the hunt for an item of interest to someone
would mean nothing?

 

[jazzeum]

Dudes,

As a former moderator, you all need to take it down a peg. Frank has a right to express his opinion and although he has said it many times so have others who don't agree with him.

Let's just cool the rhetoric a teeney weeney little bit

 

[panzeraces]

No I'm afraid its not the case.The poster is one of a aggressive group of fans of one company who have targeted people who support K&C.Ask Wayne how he was treated when he posted his thoughts on the FL thread.With the greatest respect to you Panzeraces I put it to you that you perhaps have not been on here long enough to see their antics.This is a K&C thread,it is ignorant and bad forum form to bait fans of the company on its own thread.The vast majority of K&C fans do not venture over there to slag them,its common decency.

This is the second time in two days you have picked a fight with me,if you've got a problem with me PM me.

Rob, do not think I picked a fight with you either occasion and, yes may be new to the site but, as I said earlier, its not unheard of to be able to support a product without being able to critique it properly for fear of being addressed as against the rules etc. If there are posters who try to get a rise fromK&C collectors then surely they must be mature enough to ignore the blogs and, by that way they will become bored and stop. I certainly have no qualms with yourself it just must be that you are more sensitive to comments which are not meant personally but, once expressed are their for all to express an opinion about.
Apologies if my comments have offended or done whatever they have to you for such a strong response but, I will continue to politely comment on things that I see. After all that is democracy and free speech.

 

[Vezzolf]

Rob, I collect First legion, Figarti, and K/C.....I do have my favorites..YES.....the issue here is pricing of "retired" K/C products on secondary markets.....My point is that today we all have choices....we do not need to succumb to price manipulation practices concerning retired items.....Newer K/C products are much better in quality then their older stuff.....Figarti and First Legion are also producing superb products....K/C and K/C retired are NOT the only game in town anymore....I still colect some K/C products but I and many others refuse to be price gouged in the secondary markets for items which in my view are not up to todays standards....Best regards Vezzolf

 

[panzeraces]

Back on the subject of K&C I do prefer the older king and country sets. for me, they have a vitality that the newer sets do not have, I look at the new Arnhem sets which I have and then look at the older ones and, always keep coming back to the older ones. I think this applies to a lot of the older stuff even when it is woefully out of scale I love the stuff.

I was fortunate enough to recieve my step fathers stuff and, he had a lot of early stuff from the first sets to about 91 and, it just does not get any better.

Is this just me or do other collectors feel this about the old v new debate?.

 

[Rob]

Rob, I collect First legion, Figarti, and K/C.....I do have my favorites..YES.....the issue here is pricing of "retired" K/C products on secondary markets.....My point is that today we all have choices....we do not need to succumb to price manipulation practices concerning retired items.....Newer K/C products are much better in quality then their older stuff.....Figarti and First Legion are also producing superb products....K/C and K/C retired are NOT the only game in town anymore....I still colect some K/C products but I and many others refuse to be price gouged in the secondary markets for items which in my view are not up to todays standards....Best regards Vezzolf

Absolutely agree Vezzolf,First Legion and Figarti (TG too)are producing superb products that I am also buying.Sorry if I was a bit touchy,no offence meant to you.All the best

Rob

 

[Vezzolf]

Peace to you Brother

 

[Rob]

Peace to you Brother

And the same to you

You are also right about the quality of the newer items Vezzolf.Light years ahead of the older stuff in my view,just look at the difference in facial details in the recent and older D Day series.The older sets look like Toy soldiers (as they would of course)but the newer sets have that K&C trademark look about them,as with FL,Figarti etc this is important in establishing the brand.

Rob

 

[Warrior]

Also keep in mind that other manufacturers like Figarti and First Legion are producing better products....

I'm a bit confused about this statement; are you saying First Legion and Figarti products are better than some of the older retired K & C pieces or are you a fan of theirs because their items do not lend themselves to hoading/speculating?

If it's the latter, First Legion has not been around long enough to retire anything and five years from now, will you feel the same way when their initial Stug III is long retired, almost impossible to find and going for 600.00 on Ebay?

And as far as Figarti; they only produce 100 of each item, this lends itself to the very thing you seem to be annoyed over, speculating and hording. How many of the initial winter 88 and prime mover were bought if for no other reason than to horde and flip on Ebay at a huge profit?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Perhaps we should set up a futures market for models so people could speculate on value increases several years down the road without actually having to ever buy the model.

Terry

 

[damian]

I see from another thread that some of the WB ACW sets from the mid noughties are now becomming hard to get. At one stage you could not give them away. As WB has improved and their ACW line evolved so collectors are finding these older sets collectible. I am not tryin to hijack the K and C thread, just pointing out that many different factors contribute to the value of secondary sets.

 

[tdubel]

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This has been going on for years!:

Many use the...."I just obtained a collection"ploy

Some are legitimate here on Treefrog they always listed items on the Forum

at very fair prices first, before anything was put on ebay. They have always

been very fair.

Others in my opinion not so much. Early on I asked other dealers if they had

certain recently retired items and was always told no.....only to see then

listed on ebay a week later.

In all fairness, it is every man for himself.....but you should expect a certain

level of service from someone you spend a fair amout of money with.

Hi,
I am not disagreeing this goes on , but I do know that 2 good friends who are large dealers have recently bought out stock and a very large collection. It was all legit, one dealer sold most on ebay, fair is fair. He made a business deal and decided to liquidate it via ebay, you can't begrudge that one.

NOW, I do know of at least 1 dealer who blatantly pulls back any retired pieces and trickles them over ebay over time. That is kind of crappy, hence why I never bought there.

Tom

 

[Njja]

Hi,
I am not disagreeing this goes on , but I do know that 2 good friends who are large dealers have recently bought out stock and a very large collection. It was all legit, one dealer sold most on ebay, fair is fair. He made a business deal and decided to liquidate it via ebay, you can't begrudge that one.

NOW, I do know of at least 1 dealer who blatantly pulls back any retired pieces and trickles them over ebay over time. That is kind of crappy, hence why I never bought there.

Tom

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Tom I think you are quite correct! And your solution certainly makes good

sense.

 

[glossman]

Kaiser staff car goes for 75.00 on ebay.

Resale market in full collapse

retired stuff now worth less than original price

yikes!

Where are we going with this thread ?

It looks like the same old points of contention have surfaced again.

It all started with the Kaiser's staff car.

For this I say, "A swallow does not make a summer".

Markets (all types) will go up and down in cyclical fashion influenced by a host of variables.

So what is new ?

Happy Easter, Raymond.

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[The Military Workshop]

Hi Guys,
Interesting thread.
I would consider myself a small dealer compared to most in USA. The subject of retired items is an interesting one.
I make a point of emphasising to my customers that if K&C has announced the retirement of something then they should order it asap if it is something they want otherwise they may miss out or have to seek it from elsewhere. I will usually use my experience to judge how many to get in and this is aimed to meet possible customer demand. Any retired items on display in the shop will be moved to another shelf as this helps me keep track of what I have. It should also be noted that whilst an item might be announced as retired it can still be available for several more months (ie Russians and Iwo Jima would be two examples).
I personally do put some items aside for Ebay. In June-Aug last year I sold probably 20-30 items at auction (including a Matiilda and some Aussie sets). This coincided with the purchase of about 10 items from a collector selling some items due to space problems. The Matilda did well at A$550 and the Aussie sets did probably 2-3 x retail. A K&C Galland ME109 without its box bought from the collector went for almost 10 x what I paid for it (A$75) much to my surprise. The proceeds from those sales were used to pay for new shop signage and the web page which for my business was a not insignificant amount especially as came around same time.
Before anybody gets excited anything K&C I currently have that is retired is probably not that valuable and I would not expect much more than retail when I do put it on Ebay (proceeds this time going towards 4 new shop cabinets).
Although I do put some items aside I will sell them at normal retail in the right situation. For example a good regular mail order customer (without access to internet) had a K&C flyer and ordered a vehicle not knowing it had retired a year earlier. I let him have it at normal price and only much later told him it was a retired item (at that time fetching double). Another new collector of leaders I let have several of the retired ones at normal price as I knew he was aiming to build a good leader collection. However on the other hand there are other collectors who are not regulars who only want to know you when you have a retired item they are after. I would rather put it on Ebay.

to be con'd as gotta go for dinner. Back soon.
Brett

 

[wayne556517]

Whats for Dinner Brett.................

 

[The Military Workshop]

In relation to K&C on Ebay as has been pointed out it is a matter of supply and demand. If somebody is willing to pay a high price then that is their right to do so and good luck to the seller.
I forgot to mention I also sold some Vietnam sets with the other items which did very well. They had been on display in the shop for years with very little interest. One Ebayer bought my last three and I guess he is happy with what he got.
So for me as a dealer I don't stockpile retired items but if they don't sell I may put them aside either for the "right" customer to come along or for Ebay. So if you see me listing any auctions soon you will be helping me buy cabinets !!!!
And you all know what is going into the cabinets .......................................more handpianted military figures with improved diorama displays.
Regards
Brett
PS Please bid high