Shootings In El Paso (2 Viewers)

[tdubel]

There was a series HBO ran a few years ago called "Mass Shooter", several incidents of mass shootings, I DVR'D it and watched the first three, then erased the rest of them, I had enough of "He was a troubled guy, had a history of issues, no one said anything, then he snapped"...……………

Rinse, lather, repeat.

We're gun crazy in this country, the key word being crazy.

My Dad was a former police officer; if I had my way, the only weapon available to the public would be a rock, throw a rock at my Dad and see what he'll do to you, I just wanted him to come through the front door every night unharmed is all.

As far as your "good guy with a gun" example; just change it to "Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a bucket of popcorn"...…….

The best monologue I've ever heard about guns in the US belongs to your very own Jim Jeffries in one of his stand up bits.

If you haven't seen it, do a search on YouTube for it.

You're welcome.

I hear you, but respectfully disagree. As I said before, I am a proud lawful gun owner and have no crazy in me. I am not willing nor ever will sacrifice my rights due to a few crazy idiots. Instead, I advocate background checks, stringent procedures of ownership, common sense ownership and education. I am never going to advocate the penalize the masses due to a few morons. The best thing that can happen is these incidents stop, that said, they wont, so the next best thing IMO is they are shot dead in the act.

Last time I looked at historical statistics, Criminals and nut jobs have always been able to obtain weapons. The only thing gun bans do is keep them out of the hands of legal law abiding citizens.

I grew up in a family who were educated gun owners (My Father was NOT one). The knowledge was still instilled in me regardless of my Dad's view, he believed in education. This is where it starts.


TD

 

[tdubel]

One other item I should disclose here is that my direct family was a victim of a Mass Shooting. The Synagogue Shooting in Pittsburgh, we lost a first cousin in probably the most unthinkable senseless act of violence I could ever have imagined. Just disgusting. I disclose this b/c I just don't have a willy nilly view on gun control, shootings, etc. Unfortunately, I have first hand experience and the issue in our case had nothing to do with the gun used and the nut job would have committed the violence regardless of the weapon and was determined to wreak destruction on the Jewish faith.

TD

 

[nysoldiers]

Let me respectfully give my input. I own a gun, a shot gun, I bought it when I moved to a more secluded area from a gated community. My wife would not let me own a gun while our children lived at home.
Frankly with a very good alarm and closed circuit camera system the gun is probably useless.

There are now more guns then people in our country. We have more guns than any other country and more gun violence than any other country.

Tom is right that we will always have criminals, mentally disturbed, haters, terrorists and crimes of passion. We have to always address these groups and monitor social media as well.
BUT when you have 330 million guns in this country it just makes it easier for the above groups to get guns......simple math.

Arming the good guys will not work. If people in the malls and movie theaters walk around with guns they will end up shooting each other or being shot by the police who don't know whose who in a chaotic crime scene.

Thoughts and prayers are a waste they do nothing. We have to make it illegal for politicians to take lobbyist money from the NRA and gun makers and then let our smart people come up with reasonable strategies to reduce the
amount of guns in circulation. Other countries do it with positive results.
Other than that it might get too political so I will listen to others.
Its time we valued "human rights" over "gun rights".

 

[marco55]

They have many many many guns laws and it has not stopped the senseless killings every day.Hell Chicago goes through this almost every day.I have never owned a gun but I do not support banning guns.
Mark

 

[The Military Workshop]

The best monologue I've ever heard about guns in the US belongs to your very own Jim Jeffries in one of his stand up bits.

If you haven't seen it, do a search on YouTube for it.

You're welcome.

George,
I had never heard of Jeffries until his monologue was mentioned after a US shooting a few years ago. Whilst people don't have to agree with his thoughts he did a great job expressing them over 14 minutes. Hard to get a laugh out of gun control but he did it brilliantly. Interestingly the show he did it in was in Boston.

I particularly liked his bit about carrying muskets now and the time it takes to load them if wanted to shoot somebody. Plus the home owner going to his gun safe as the burglar is breaking in.

 

[Warrior]

George,
I had never heard of Jeffries until his monologue was mentioned after a US shooting a few years ago. Whilst people don't have to agree with his thoughts he did a great job expressing them over 14 minutes. Hard to get a laugh out of gun control but he did it brilliantly. Interestingly the show he did it in was in Boston.

I particularly liked his bit about carrying muskets now and the time it takes to load them if wanted to shoot somebody. Plus the home owner going to his gun safe as the burglar is breaking in.

Yes, it was in Boston.

I was in the audience and his thoughts were brilliant, the bit about the gun safe was the high water mark of his monologue.

Thoughts on guns is a 50/50 proposition, 50% of the people agree with you, 50% don't.

There is no right or wrong, it all comes down to personal choice.

Ok, carry on until this thread gets locked down.

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

Woke up to another mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio. What will we wake up to tomorrow? Or later today? Sadly, another mass shooting is on the horizon.

I agree with everyone's point of view on this thread-sickos with guns, gun rights, mental health, bullies, social media, etc. Its a world wide pandemic of terror: Germany, Paris, Russia, India, Japan, England, Africa, Canada, Sweden and of course the US. It just doesn't end and no community is immune. Heck no location is immune like churches, synagogues, schools, movie theaters, McDonands, malls, venues, colleges, garlic festivals...jeezzusss everywhere.

I was going to add this last night, but pulled back. What I was going to say was that there may be a satisfaction knowing that this kid will get the death penalty in Texas. That is a given. Also, he will NOT sit on death row for decades on end. Oh no, his number will come and his date with the bed will come. But, I find no comfort or satisfaction in that anymore because it's not justice to the families who lost loved ones. These folks lives have been turned upside and I can't imagine the pain like Tom's family has endured and continue to endure. He gets to continue to live, have rights, appeals and 3 squares a day. Yeah, his day will come, but it just does not make it right.

John from Texas

 

[Louis Badolato]

I agree with the well said sentiments on this thread. The only thing I would add, other than my personal condolences to the victims and their families, is that the single best and most important document this country ever produced was the bill of rights. Every one of the first ten amendments was incredible important. In my eyes the right to bear arms is the most important right, because it guarantees the others. These horrible mass shootings are the acts of criminals and/or lunatics, and while reasonable legislation to keep guns out of the hands of the criminally insane makes sense, no amount of mass shootings can be an excuse for politicians to interfere with our right to bear arms, just as no other rationale can provide grounds for revoking any of the other fundamental rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

 

[Go for Broke]

I'm a gun owner and believe in gun rights. Other than stricter gun registration/ownership, I think the problem is high capacity magazines. The Dayton shooter had two barrel magazines capable of holding 100-rounds each. If we limited the mags, to say 10-rounds, then the shooter would have to reload often, giving people more chance to react. Unless the shooter is experienced, he could drop the magazine, fumble in trying to insert the mag and/or jam the rifle. I thought it was hilarious that the shooter was wearing ear protection.

 

[Gideon]

Technological advancements deferential to our emotional needs are destroying us.

It is easy to encase oneself within echo chambers which amplify a persons biases, prejudices, rage, anger and, ultimately, embolden them to commit horrible acts.

No amount of gun regulation will stop this.

 

[wayne556517]

251 shootings this year!!!!!!

 

[nysoldiers]

No one is talking about banning all guns but certainly there are ways of limiting gun violence.
As I have said we now have more guns than people in our country, over 330 million guns.
We have more guns than any other nation and more gun violence than any other nation.

Does the second amendment protect automatic weapons and high volume magazines? Can a civilian own a machine gun, bazooka, RPG or flame thrower?
Where do we draw the line to protect human lives. Why can't we end loopholes at gun shows, mail order and private sales. Why are our politicians allowed to
take money from the NRA and gun makers. Do any of you believe that these lobbyist "pay offs" don't come with conditions to stave off reasonable gun regulations.
Why do my young grandchildren have to go through "lock down" drills?

Very simply put again......the more guns in circulation the more access criminals, mentally disturbed, haters, and terrorists have to them. Where are these illegal guns coming
from? The gangs and criminals don't make their own.
Not to mention all the accidental gun deaths we have, especially among children.
Just tell me why we need this massive amount of guns in our country?

I wonder what our Australian and European members think about American gun violence?

 

[mikemiller1955]

The term “assault weapon” needs to go.
I keep hearing how an ar-15 is an assault weapon. I have an ar-15...yet I live in Massachusetts with tough gun laws, my “assault weapon” holds 7 bullets and is semi auto. People say it’s designed to kill. Uh, if someone wants to kill masses of people, my assault weapon isn’t the gun to use.
Like Tom said... education, education , education

Zach...
I have a Colt AR-15...
it's scoped out...
I bought it with the standard small clip...
I think mine carried 10 rounds...
I bought several 30 round clips...
which are available anywhere...
some hunters use an AR-15...
it's a very accurate gun...
you can't use a 30 round clip when hunting...
that's illegal...

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Very well put Louis :salute::

I agree with the well said sentiments on this thread. The only thing I would add, other than my personal condolences to the victims and their families, is that the single best and most important document this country ever produced was the bill of rights. Every one of the first ten amendments was incredible important. In my eyes the right to bear arms is the most important right, because it guarantees the others. These horrible mass shootings are the acts of criminals and/or lunatics, and while reasonable legislation to keep guns out of the hands of the criminally insane makes sense, no amount of mass shootings can be an excuse for politicians to interfere with our right to bear arms, just as no other rationale can provide grounds for revoking any of the other fundamental rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

 

[The Military Workshop]

I agree with everyone's point of view on this thread-sickos with guns, gun rights, mental health, bullies, social media, etc. Its a world wide pandemic of terror: Germany, Paris, Russia, India, Japan, England, Africa, Canada, Sweden and of course the US. It just doesn't end and no community is immune. Heck no location is immune like churches, synagogues, schools, movie theaters, McDonands, malls, venues, colleges, garlic festivals...jeezzusss everywhere.

John from Texas

John,
From outside the USA it looks to me that the USA is way ahead of the countries you mentioned in relation to "sickos with guns". England, luckily, does not even come close. In relation to Japan they seem not to have such a problem at all.

I note the recent shooters were 19 and 21. Good luck trying to find the weapons and ammo they used in England or Japan.

Unfortunately this is a unique problem suffered by the USA. It is the price the country has to pay for its strong belief in the right to own guns.

 

[mikemiller1955]

sad to point this out...

but...
even if you banned guns...
and collected them all and melted them...
you can Google how to make a bomb off the Internet...
if a guy is crazy...
he's got options...

 

[The Military Workshop]

sad to point this out...

but...
even if you banned guns...
and collected them all and melted them...
you can Google how to make a bomb off the Internet...
if a guy is crazy...
he's got options...

That is true. However the current preferred option by far is a weapon designed to kill people in an accurate and efficient manner. I think we can all agree these mass shooters are cowards. Takes a bit more guts and importantly time to make and set off a bomb. Easy access to guns makes it easier for the nutter who has snapped to act quickly in response to something setting them off.

If what you say had happened then the Texas guy eating his cinema snack would not have been killed by the guy sitting behind him with a bomb.

 

[waynepoo]

No one is talking about banning all guns but certainly there are ways of limiting gun violence.
As I have said we now have more guns than people in our country, over 330 million guns.
We have more guns than any other nation and more gun violence than any other nation.

Does the second amendment protect automatic weapons and high volume magazines? Can a civilian own a machine gun, bazooka, RPG or flame thrower?
Where do we draw the line to protect human lives. Why can't we end loopholes at gun shows, mail order and private sales. Why are our politicians allowed to
take money from the NRA and gun makers. Do any of you believe that these lobbyist "pay offs" don't come with conditions to stave off reasonable gun regulations.
Why do my young grandchildren have to go through "lock down" drills?

Very simply put again......the more guns in circulation the more access criminals, mentally disturbed, haters, and terrorists have to them. Where are these illegal guns coming
from? The gangs and criminals don't make their own.
Not to mention all the accidental gun deaths we have, especially among children.
Just tell me why we need this massive amount of guns in our country?

I wonder what our Australian and European members think about American gun violence?

The question was asked. Since the Port Arthur mass shooting which promoted better gun control here in Australia there has been no mass shooting in 22years, with one exception when a family of seven were gunned down by a another family member, and gun suicide has dropped by 80% from what I have read. Make what you will of that, but if Americans keep insisting on the right to bear arms and keep allowing the NRA to have more sway then it deserves they will continue to see more mass shootings IMO.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I live within 4 miles of the shooting at the El Paso Walmart. Luckily no one that I personally know was injured.This particular store
is known for Mexican nationals crossing the border and shopping there. 5 or 6 of the fatalities were from Mexico. Now Mexico wants
to sue the U.S. for the deaths of their citizens that were casualties, yet countless U.S. citizens have been killed over the years across
the border in Juarez. The day after the incident, Sunday I needed to go shopping at another Walmart store and a sheriff was posted at
the front entrance. A welcome sight but, after the fact. Inside the store it was eerily quiet. People were on edge and understandably so!
Truly a tragedy that hit close to home.

Wayne

 

[tdubel]

I agree with the well said sentiments on this thread. The only thing I would add, other than my personal condolences to the victims and their families, is that the single best and most important document this country ever produced was the bill of rights. Every one of the first ten amendments was incredible important. In my eyes the right to bear arms is the most important right, because it guarantees the others. These horrible mass shootings are the acts of criminals and/or lunatics, and while reasonable legislation to keep guns out of the hands of the criminally insane makes sense, no amount of mass shootings can be an excuse for politicians to interfere with our right to bear arms, just as no other rationale can provide grounds for revoking any of the other fundamental rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

**** right Louis and Thank God there are a majority of Americans who still believe in the Bill of Rights. I have taught my son gun safety, importance since the age of 14 when he first started shooting with me. He is not gun crazy in the least, but is very respectful and enjoys shooting targets. He doesn't have access outside of my supervision to any guns and I would challenge anyone who can find a way into my gun safe other than blowing it up.

As to everyone else on this thread - USA or abroad - you are welcome to your opinions and mine is no better than yours, but having a family who has been a victim of one of these senseless shootings, I can tell you as a family we come from a diverse political and social views and not ONE of them believes that "gun ban or control" is the answer. Do I think we need strict regulations and there needs to be strict qualifications to own them, YES, but reducing the number of guns in circulation is not an answer, that ship long ago sailed.

As I said before, if you are really interested in our Federal and State laws - go read them, they are actually quite diverse and the will of the people in each State differs greatly. Regarding criminals - our federal government has "lost" more automatic weapons to criminals than a private citizen, gun store etc ever could, so start there, not the people.

Finally - Rich brought up a view on automatic weapons. As I posted earlier, they are legal means to own them. That said, I don't believe in that. The average citizen doesn't need to own a fully automatic weapon, IMO there is no purpose to own one and I don't believe that we should be in possession of them. That said, there is a HUGE difference between an AR 15 and a M 16 or an Uzi or a 30 Cal, etc. An AR 15 is not made the same way, doesn't come close to firing with the same rapidity, velocity, volume, timing etc. It is a hunting or sporting rifle that has a look to it and that is it. If you change the design of the gun, it would not even be in this conversation.