Size Matters.... (4 Viewers)

[Mitch]

Warrior...

I will PM you regarding your response
Mitch

 

[jbonzo1]

Nothing wrong with a new collector asking a question that requires a simple response. The old "Use the search function" reply is boorish and rather rude. It tends to turn new collectors off and makes others look like grouchy know it all types. We should encourage new people, not brush them aside.

 

[jazzeum]

Scale is a question that has been oft discussed and there appears to be no easy answer. If there were, then one would be given. There's also nothing wrong with doing a little basic research and see what's been said about a topic previously, now is there?

Usually, when I want an answer to something, no matter what I may be interested in, I try to do a little groundwork. If, then, I can't find the answer, then, yes, I ask away. So how is that boorish and rude, particularly when I went back and actually gave links to some of the various times this has been discussed?

 

[Mitch]

jbonzo1...

I think thats right. I was just about to thank Jazzeum about posting them but, apart from allowing one to see what others once said its no substitue for new members to have the opportunity to discuss the ins and outs so, to speak. Otherwise IMO This great site could just be a reference site with no interaction. I may not be saying what some want to hear but, is this not what the site is for discussion about every aspect of Toy soldiers?????
Mitch

Nothing wrong with a new collector asking a question that requires a simple response. The old "Use the search function" reply is boorish and rather rude. It tends to turn new collectors off and makes others look like grouchy know it all types. We should encourage new people, not brush them aside.

 

[jbonzo1]

Scale is a question that has been oft discussed and there appears to be no easy answer. If there were, then one would be given. There's also nothing wrong with doing a little basic research and see what's been said about a topic previously, now is there?

Usually, when I want an answer to something, no matter what I may be interested in, I try to do a little groundwork. If, then, I can't find the answer, then, yes, I ask away. So how is that boorish and rude, particularly when I went back and actually gave links to some of the various times this has been discussed?

I was speaking in general terms. Some people do research while others do not.

"This Forum (and I don't necessarily mean you) has a habit of constantly raising the same issues ad infinitum, which can get tedious after awhile, but to each his own."

This statement seems a wee bit condescending to me. If a question has been asked many times before and that bothers you, move on to the next thread.

 

[jazzeum]

No, the question that the same issues get raised over and over again is a statement of fact, as demonstrated by the links that I posted. That they are tedious is my opinion which I don't ask you to agree with.

Also, I have been here since the beginning so I thought a little perspective wouldn't hurt. Apparently I was wrong

It was hardly condescending, or rude, unlike your two prior posts on the matter.

There was an attempt to insert some humor into a discussion, which apparently was well received by some but not by others.

Pardon the interruption

 

[Mitch]

Some may research thats fine but, again, we seem to be going round in circles. This is a live active site with full participation and one where many want to discuss the ins and outs of all aspects of the hobby. Researching the facts about AFV's is helpful to know facts but, we want to talk about these things and bounce ideas etc of each other in any way we seem fit to do so. It does come across as if you research you will know this and, not ask. I have not and will not spend many hours looking back at threads in which, I can have no input and ask questions as I will not learn everything I want to know and, importantly, the hobby has moved on greatly in scale quality and new manufacturers and, I want to speak and converse with others about these moves forward.

I really do think that some tolerance of new members to meander along at whatever pace they want would be greatly appreciated or we are going to have more and more subjects ruined like this for no other reason than they have been discussed before.

It really is like being told by the owners this is a site to discuss all things toy soldier related but, only if it suits some. I did not sign up for the latter and hope this will end so we can get back to discussing the issues about the hobby
Mitch

 

[jbonzo1]

Mitch, my thoughts exactly.

 

[Spitfrnd]

jbonzo1...

I think thats right. I was just about to thank Jazzeum about posting them but, apart from allowing one to see what others once said its no substitute for new members to have the opportunity to discuss the ins and outs so, to speak. Otherwise IMO This great site could just be a reference site with no interaction. I may not be saying what some want to hear but, is this not what the site is for discussion about every aspect of Toy soldiers?????
Mitch

I think you are right here mate. Lord knows there is more that enough that can't be discussed in front of too sensitive ears here as it is. The mere fact that something has been said many times before should be no cause for concern to anyone. After all, no one is making us read any of these threads and it is easier to ignore the ones with subjects you do not care for than to search for the old ones or even complain for that matter.

Providing links to previous related threads is indeed a helpful and friendly gesture to be appreciated. I did not as much appreciate the editorial references to the deletions and admonitions. I don't think that added anything and is somewhat provocative. Why not let the threads (or what is left of some of them) speak for themselves.

I truly find so tiresome the view that there are some subjects too sensitive to be discussed. We are supposed to be adults and adults should be able to discuss anything rationally without rancour. Where that fails, it is simply the fault of one or more the the contributors, NOT the subject. To bring that back to this thread, it seemed to me a quite polite and friendly discussion interested in answers, so why disrupt it? As to scale having no answers, that is simply not precisely correct. It is all a function of asking the right questions and fairly digesting the answers that emerge.

 

[jazzeum]

Where did I say that you couldn't discuss what you wanted to discuss. Never did. By all means discuss what you would all like to discuss whether or not it has been discussed before. And, yes, discuss them without rancour but in reality we know that rancour-less discussions when it comes to scale or any other contentious issues don't happen, do they

What I did see was treating scale issues like we treat the issue of world peace. If trying to introduce a little levity is a crime, then I stand accused and gladly plead guilty.

As far as editorial references to the links (which I posted for Mitch's benefits but have yet to receive any thanks for from him), one was quoting from one of the threads and was meant to be helpful. Forgive me o Lord if I did that

I have little or no interest in this tedious, yes, tedious from my perspective, subject so rest assured I will not participate any further as I have wasted too much time on it already.

One last point. As a senior member of this Forum, I have always gone out of my way to be helpful to members, particularly new ones. This seems to be no longer appreciated

 

[Mitch]

Jazzeum...

Your post speaks volumes to the majority of new members Thank you for posting. Oh, thanks for posting the links but, we were rather amicably discussing scale without rancour until something happened??

Respect is earned, not given because one has been on here for five years or has more posts and has little input to what has happened here. The whole thing was not about world peace as you know well it was the attempt to change what you saw as a tedious subject being discussed by a few members and introducing baseball which, had nothing to do with the post.
Mitch

 

[spartan71]

As far as Jazzeums links to other discussions of the same subject, I for one appreciates it. And quite possibly other forum members old and new, that now has those links, as reference. Again Thanks Brad.
Now as far putting, a little humor into a thread. It does not hurt the thread in any way, or even any baseball or any other sports references ( if you do not like what he says, and his opinion. you rather not read, then don't). skip past it. Like what probably what most people do when another forum member says (First 2 letters IX) Now if he said something personally derogatory to you, take offense. But always remember his first response is humor.
Now as far as respect is earned, not given That is true. As probably any senior forum member will tell you. and as far as Brad, he has more than earned it as a fellow member and as a moderator. As Shannon And Pete can attest.

 

[Spitfrnd]

As far as Jazzeums links to other discussions of the same subject, I for one appreciates it. And quite possibly other forum members old and new, that now has those links, as reference. Again Thanks Brad.
Now as far putting, a little humor into a thread. It does not hurt the thread in any way, or even any baseball or any other sports references ( if you do not like what he says, and his opinion. you rather not read, then don't). skip past it. Like what probably what most people do when another forum member says (First 2 letters IX) Now if he said something personally derogatory to you, take offense. But always remember his first response is humor.
Now as far as respect is earned, not given That is true. As probably any senior forum member will tell you. and as far as Brad, he has more than earned it as a fellow member and as a moderator. As Shannon And Pete can attest.

With respect, I think this is going in the wrong direction. Brad is perfectly capable of and has defended himself and if anything the two of them seem to be missing each other. Why not let them work it out?

As for not hurting the thread, well some diversions are natural and harmless, even if long and sometimes distracting. Here, the attempt at humor or exclamation of long suffering was more than a little disruptive and did derail the conversation. I humbly think that is different. I am sure no harm was intended and apologies were given so it should be "enough said". Anyway they have both said what they have said so why not let this return to the original subject. If more needs to be said about protocol, these is always the option of opening another thread in the general chat section or using PM.

 

[Mitch]

I think that no more needs to be said on the side issues here. Its not really important and may now be more an opportunity to amass a larger group to have a input which causes more unecessary daftness. Everyone has said what they wanted and quite reasonably IMO.

I think if I can remember we were talking about the smaller showcase tiger and whether the panther was larger than the panzer IV which, I believed CS had got right due to the size of the panther tank
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

I appreciate the support and thank you. Mitch and I have had an off line discussion so I believe any lingering issues have been resolved. My intention was not to throw the thread off the track or appear condescending to other members so my apologies if I did or appeared to do so.

Please resume the discussion.

 

[spartan71]

....Anyway. I too have lost sleep, when I buy something. And worry if the Item I bought is a "true 1/30th scale" . With the Panzer IV, being my outright favorite, I can not even Look at My "Wittmans last Tank", anymore.And just sticking to one manufacturer, Is a challenge. Because, just an outright one or two new releases a month (, I am not buying the steyr, and thank God for the Wespe), is barely enough.
For now, I am buying the Infantry to go with the Tank. And staying away, from the ATV's .

 

[maddadicus]

I could care less about proper scale. It is any mfg. telling me to buy their stuff, because they will match up best against each other. It is about relative size between 1 model and the next..GET IT! The idea that I can not trust within any mfg,'s offerings that the models offered are as advertised for being accurate to each other. Scale stopped mattering long ago, when each mfg. decided to make 1/30 scale whatever the next model they said it was. The idea that we must be mind numbed robots, plunk down our $150 to $300 for a tank ,and like however ridiculous they look next to each other, might be OK to you, but I suspect there are a bunch of us who have issues. I have a Panzer 4 larger than my CS Tiger. The CS Panther at least looks noticeably larger than that same Tiger, but how does it look next to the CS Panzer. For folks that do not collect CS, you have no dog in this fight, so go back to the K/C forum and we can start in on their highly inconsistent wrong scale, wrong size offerings for the last 100 years. I will see you there when I am done here...Michael

 

[spartan71]

So should a collector, just stay within the boundaries of what ever manufacturer they like, and not mix and match pieces??, I have bought the Panzer IV, the Panther, The halftrack (I loved this one until, someone pointed out the hatches), and they all seem to be in Sync in Scale.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I could care less about proper scale. It is any mfg. telling me to buy their stuff, because they will match up best against each other. It is about relative size between 1 model and the next..GET IT! The idea that I can not trust within any mfg,'s offerings that the models offered are as advertised for being accurate to each other. Scale stopped mattering long ago, when each mfg. decided to make 1/30 scale whatever the next model they said it was. The idea that we must be mind numbed robots, plunk down our $150 to $300 for a tank ,and like however ridiculous they look next to each other, might be OK to you, but I suspect there are a bunch of us who have issues. I have a Panzer 4 larger than my CS Tiger. The CS Panther at least looks noticeably larger than that same Tiger, but how does it look next to the CS Panzer. For folks that do not collect CS, you have no dog in this fight, so go back to the K/C forum and we can start in on their highly inconsistent wrong scale, wrong size offerings for the last 100 years. I will see you there when I am done here...Michael

Well I agree with much of what you said but I suggest how some model looks next to some other model is inevitably and issue of scale unless they are all full size. Now whether is it 1/30 or something else is less important so long as what you are trying to match is the same something I think. I must confessed as someone who has none of these, the photos and descriptions posted here seem a bit in conflict.

 

[uksubs]

So should a collector, just stay within the boundaries of what ever manufacturer they like,
Look that way to me