Stalingrad 1942-43 (3 Viewers)

[mestell]

The 24.Panzer-Division was formed in November 1941 in Stablack/Ostpreußen (East Prussia) from the 1.Kavallerie-Division. in April 1942 the division moved to France to complete its training and in June it deployed to the vicinity of Kursk to take part in "Fall Blau". These pictures represent elements of Schützen-Regiment 21 training in a French village just prior to leaving for the east. The division maintained a number of aspects of its cavalry heritage including its "Leaping Horseman" unit emblem, retention of the golden yellow waffenfabre and use of the term "Schwadron" to describe its Panzer companies.

What makes a great photo? First Legion figures and vehicles, Hudson & Allen buildings and scenics, and of course your fabulous photographic ability Frank . . . . Another winner sir . . .
Mike

 

[fmethorst]

OK we are in on this Crusade of the East....Keep the research up.....we will try to catch up as best as possible......We would like some scenario ideas if those who are interested could
help us out....Pictures or a description of the scenario would be great. Keeping in mind the products available.

I wonder if we could eventually reorganize under the Diodramas section....Because we will have the Figarti stuff to work with shortly, which looks outstanding, and of course some K&C
stuff, which is not up to speed in the type detail we are trying to achieve here though. Or do you want to go all FL...


What are your thoughts ? .................. Alex

I like the idea of a Diodrama but I think that is a ways off still as there are so many figures and vehicles missing which would make for a much richer experience. That section is also more appropriate for mixed manufacturer displays which I'm all for provided everything can be brought to blend seamlessly together. I don't have a lot of time right now but I will review the FL releases to date and their appropriate historical context in regards to the attack on Stalingrad to share here.

A book I can highly recommend is "Angriff The German Attack on Stalingrad In Photos" by Jason Mark which includes hundreds of photos chronologically arranged and extensively researched to the point of identifying the locations and units involved. This is full of ideas for scenarios.

http://www.amazon.com/Angriff-German-Attack-Stalingrad-Photos/dp/0975107674

 

[Firebat]

I like the idea of a Diodrama but I think that is a ways off still as there are so many figures and vehicles missing which would make for a much richer experience. That section is also more appropriate for mixed manufacturer displays which I'm all for provided everything can be brought to blend seamlessly together. I don't have a lot of time right now but I will review the FL releases to date and their appropriate historical context in regards to the attack on Stalingrad to share here.

A book I can highly recommend is "Angriff The German Attack on Stalingrad In Photos" by Jason Mark which includes hundreds of photos chronologically arranged and extensively researched to the point of identifying the locations and units involved. This is full of ideas for scenarios.

http://www.amazon.com/Angriff-German-Attack-Stalingrad-Photos/dp/0975107674

Ok.... so we will keep it here and all FL for now.....We will just do little vignettes with the available products. We know what you have done and we will try to do something different. Alex

 

[Blowtorch]

Frank I would love to collaborate with a storyline, but we dont know the battle that well.

In Chuikov's book, there is a battle described which revolved around the Train Station & a corner building on Station Square called the 'Nail Factory'. Judging from the pre-revolution postcard artwork, it was likely a hotel that was used for hardware storage after the Revolution. The city fight began in mid September, and it happened in the south near the Grain Elevator. This is when Chuikov was just assuming command & 62 Army was in dire straits of mismanagement. The south was overrun quickly, and by late September the struggle for the city center began (Train Station, Red Square, etc.). It was at this time that the 13 Guards Rifle Division made their daring crossing & quickly reinforced the city center as the German 71 & 295 ID's were moving on towards the riverbank. Chuikov sent the 1/42 battalion to the Train Station, the poop hit the fan, Chuikov had to relocate to Mamayev Kurgan, 13 Guards were bled out, and only later in 1958, did Chuikov meet a survivor of the 1/42 & found out what happened to the battalion. Chuikov describes the events in his book, but here is some imagery of the Station/Nail Factory area to help visualize the events. I won't label anything yet, as some of you might have fun studying the photos & figuring what is what. This 'nail factory' was rebuilt & can be seen in the modern photo. As a starting point, this building is the big yellow one in the postcard artwork. The train station is on the left, although it is not the bigger WW2 structure.

Although the 1/42 was wiped out, the 13 Guards survived as a unit, but at only 10% of it's original strength. It survived the battle holding the area around Pavlov's House, which managed to tie down the 71 & 295 IDs for the rest of the battle, and whose absence was sorely felt when Paulus took on the Factory Districts to the north in mid October. Credit is usually given to the sacrifice of the 13th Guards for having bought Chuikov several precious days in which to strengthen his defenses elsewhere & hold his bridgehead on the Volga. In essences, the 13th Guards saved the battle for the Soviets.

The current figs FL makes, both German & Soviet fit this theme very well, before things got truly intense in the northern factories in October.

 

[Blowtorch]

One more I couldn't get in

 

[Firebat]

A wealth of information.....Thanks.....I am digesting all of it for future scenes. So far we have been somewhat generic with our buildings etc, this will help us zero in on specific architecture etc. We do have some research material also, although most is the West. So keep it coming...Alex

 

[Gebhard]

Firebat ,
I would recommend the series of books published in Australia by Leaping Horseman Books http://www.leapinghorseman.com/ The long now sold out title Death of the Leaping Horseman was Matts inspiration for producing this line . They specialize in Stalingrad and IMO have produced some fantastic works . Regards Gebhard

 

[Firebat]

I am done with the SCALE thing, as I stated on the other thread Nick and I feel as though we know what we think is best for us, and you will see the result in future BSP projects. This is the FUN thread, and I want to thank all of you for your help with this subject matter.

As I also said before

I love your passion. Alex

 

[Blowtorch]

They specialize in Stalingrad and IMO have produced some fantastic works

Actually it's just a 'he'

 

[Firebat]

Question: I was doing some research and there seems to be some question as to whether there was a Tiger battalion brought into the battle very late, as part of an attempt to break through to the surrounded German Army ?

 

[Blowtorch]

Question: I was doing some research and there seems to be some question as to whether there was a Tiger battalion brought into the battle very late, as part of an attempt to break through to the surrounded German Army ?

The Tigers arrived a few days too late to participate directly in the breakthrough. A few days after the breakthrough was called off, the Tigers arrived & some were attached to the units in retreat from the breakthrough-17 PD iirc. I think the 2.502 was the first to arrive & was deployed very close to the jump off point as the units were coming back. A few days later the 503 arrived & deployed a bit further back as the line was just hemorrhaging all over the place. The breakthrough units were as I remember, the 6, 17, 23 PD. After the breakthrough was called off the Tigers went through a series of attachments to the 17 & 23 PD iirc. They all were, in addition to SS Wiking, acting as fire brigades to keep the Russians out of Rostov so Army Group A could withdraw from the Caucasus.

It's hard to make hard statements as to who was doing what because the strategic situation was changing ever 12 hours or so. It was quite a kinetic battlefield.

I'll show with maps later

I mean the Tigers were a part of the campaign, that is true. They reported to Army Group Don (Manstein) as did the units holding the line & attempting the breakthrough

 

[Gebhard]

Actually it's just a 'he'

Thanks buddy , What was I thinking to include the many vets in that "they" who provided Jason with the firsthand accounts and photo's that have made his works standout , or the other researchers who have helped him along the way and then there is Agnes :wink2: .. Ah your right {bravo}} its a one man show... Gebhard

 

[fmethorst]

Excerpt from
The Combat History of schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503, In Action in the East and West with the Tiger I and II
(schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 Veteran’s Association)

The following comes from Alfred Rubbel

Transportation to the southern sector of the Eastern Front began on 21 December 1942. Detraining from the railroad transports which had been routed for express movement took place at Proletarskaja. The war began for schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 in the early days of January 1943 along the Manytsch River.

Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502 had also been organized at nearly the same time as schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503. It also had only two tank companies. In the fall of 1942 it had been commited to action in the northern sector of the Eastern Front with a Headquarters Company, a Maintenance Company and only one tank Company. The 2./schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502 had been held back at Fallingbostel. In December of 1942 the 2./schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502 loaded onto rail transport to Heeresgruppe Don. On arrival it was attached to 17. Panzerdivision and saw it's first employment in the Kalmuck Steppes southeast of Rostov under it's company commander Hauptmann Lange.

The 2./schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502 possessed a fairly good capability to operate on its own. In order to be logistically self sufficient it had been provided with the requisite additional elements. The 2./schwere Panzer-Abteilung would have liked to keep that status. For reasons of practicality and necessity the 2./schwere Panzer-Abteilung was consoldiated with schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 as the 3.Kompanie at the beginning of January 1943. Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503, of course, was also employed on the Kalmuck Steppes at the time. The OKH decision was not greeted with a lot of enthusiasm by the company.

With that addition, schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 became the first Tiger battalion to be brought to full strength according to the 1943 standard of organization.


Tigers in Combat I (Wolfgang Schneider) puts the 2./s.H.Pz.Abt.502 at the following locations at the dates indicated:

05./06.01.43 - Detrainment in PROLETARSKAJA

07.01.43 - Attachment to 17th Panzerdivision. Relocation to SSUNGAR in the KUBERLE region (107 km road march without breakdown, with a maintenance stop every 20 km.)

08.01.43 - Counterattack with one company of Panzerregiment 39 on OSSERSKIJ and NISH-SSEREB JAKOWKA. 2 tanks and 8 anti-tank guns destroyed.

09.01.43 - Enemy positions with 5 Pak destroyed near ILOWASKIJ then attack on BRATSKIJ, 2 Pak knocked out. March back to PROLETARSKAJA

10.01.43 - Defense near BUDJENNY, 1 KV-1, 3 T-34s, 7 T-60s and 2 Pak knocked out. The operational tanks (3 Tigers and 6 Pz.IIIs) are attached to 16th Infantriedivision (mot).

14.01.43 - The Tigers cover the disengagement of 16th ID (mot) (3km from NOWO SSADKOWSKIJ to KAMAROW) and rejoin the company at PROLETARSKAJA the following day.

16./17.01.43 - The Pz.IIIs in covering positions at STALINSKI-PUD. Order to move to ROSTOV.

22.01.43 - Arrival at ROSTOV and integration into schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 as the 3rd company.

 

[fmethorst]

A couple maps to help with orientation. These are the situation maps from Dec 31 1942. I have hi-lighted the vicinity of PROLETARSKAJA with a green dot. The blue line extending diagonally from this position follows along the Manytsch River.

 

[Artillery_crazy]

With some labels for those who read Chuikovs book (Train Station, Crocodile Statue, Theatre, Nail Factory, Paulus last HQ,)
View attachment 78748

Fantastic photos, thanks for sharing.....the before and after photos give a real sense of the level of distruction artillery and air bombing did to the town...........

 

[Blowtorch]

Here's a clearer map



So for reference, the troop trains would roll through Rostov & detrain in Proletarskaja. When the 6 PD came in late November, it detrained much farther up in Kotelikowo which in the parlance of our times, was a 'hot LZ'. Although the town was supposedly 'secure' by a Romanian garrision, as soon as the first train arrived in the station (the first of 78 trains carrying the division), it was attacked by a dismounted Soviet cavalry regiment who infiltrated through the Romanians & the 6PD troops went into action immediately. The div. CO had been prepared for this & even the armor vehicles on the train were combat ready. The attack was driven off, but then the calvary's artillery unit just outside of the town began bombarding the train, and it in turn was destroyed by a quick charge by von Pahnwitz (as in K&C figure) who by chance was in the town inspecting the repair of some broken tanks, & quickly turned the mechanics into Panzertruppen & led the prompt counterattack.
The Kuberle river runs from Simowniki straight up to the Ssal. Budjenny is to the 11 o'clock of Simowniki on the Ssal for reference. I forgot where Ssungar is, but I recall it lies further northeast towards Kotelnikowo.

The 503 battalion operated in the area bordered by the Kuberle, SSal, and Manytsch rivers & was trying to keep the Reds out of Orlowskaja & Proletarskaja. So you could think of it as the 2.502 was in the area north of Simowniki, and the 503 to the south of the town

Forgot one thing: For reference, the relief attempt of Stalingrad got stopped at the Germans crossed the Mishkova river. That's not labeled on this map, but if you look at the Tschir and where it runs into the Don, the Mishkova is the river on the other side, of the Don at Niehnjaja Tschirskaja. The Aksai is the river just below that (above Werchne Kurmojarskaja)

To give an idea of how extended Paulus was even in the good times, the furthest German railhead was at the Tschir river, then supplies had to be taken by road through Kalatsch to the Stalingrad units.

 

[fmethorst]

December, 1942

A supply truck from 24.Panzer-Division picks up precious supplies at the Tractornaya train station main terminal building.

 

[sammy719]

December, 1942

A supply truck from 24.Panzer-Division picks up precious supplies at the Tractornaya train station main terminal building.

Absolutely gorgeous pics Frank, winter sets to me are my favorite, again wonderful work...Sammy

 

[Blowtorch]

fantastic

does anyone know what the little triangle on top of the cab is for?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

fantastic

does anyone know what the little triangle on top of the cab is for?

It's a towing indicator. The triangle is put in the up position when the truck is towing something like a trailer or small gun and is flipped down when nothing is being towed. Models always seem to have them in the up position even when nothing is being towed - I suppose because it looks better. Some 1/35 kits give a choice of up or down. Does the one on the FL model move?

Terry