Wittman Tiger (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

Going to have very bare shelves if you go down this road. with several makers who you collect having to get sold as they are not even in the 30th ball park tank or figure wise.

Like Terry said I don't mind the larger figures as it offers the opportunity for more detail and clearer detail (though not for all) and, you have to take into account the bases they are on will always make them look bigger and unatural next to AFV's. It also does not bother me as figures represent human beings and they are all different sizes so, you have the slack to comprimise. You cannot with AFV's as they are set in stone this size or not its that simple. Yes, for many years K&C were underscaled but, thats what they had been doing from the start. but, a lot was not marketed as 1/30th so, its difficult to retrospectively look back and critique them now as the sets have got nearer to 1/30th and are advertised as that now.

I was at a friends and took my HB Tiger 1 as he has a CS tiger 1 and it dwarfed that one and, thats as near as dammit to 1/30th so, and I hate saying this as to me its a cop out for debate but, you really have to buy what you like and, if scale is an issue then mix and match if one does as best you can
Mitch

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Then you may have a problem because there are few 1/30 figures. Most are 1/28.

Terry

Then the figures should be listed and sold as 1/28 scale. At these prices we the customer should get what we pay for.If the box says 1/30 scale then the item inside should be........1/30 scale....or buy it if you like it and call it whatever scale you want ???? The next time I buy size 11 shoes I hope the tag doesn't say 11 but the shoes are a size 13 !

 

[Mitch]

It should but it does not. I said a while back when someone or other was moaning about scale threads being boring yada yada... that its purely down to the fault of the manufacturers and not collectors for the constant discussion about scale. You either do it right and avoid it or, you dally around with scale conversions that don't add up or, invent some new formula to make things fit a range (no one manufacturer aimed at here).

This won't be the last scale discussion but, I find each one interesting as it always throws up something new
Mitch

Then the figures should be listed and sold as 1/28 scale. At these prices we the customer should get what we pay for.If the box says 1/30 scale then the item inside should be........1/30 scale....or buy it if you like it and call it whatever scale you want ???? The next time I buy size 11 shoes I hope the tag doesn't say 11 but the shoes are a size 13 !

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I think that in the meantime if the manufactorers are really trying to close the gap on this issue then things will eventually stabilize as far as scaling goes. Hats off to all of them though at the same time as a collective group the TS companies have really been producing some awesome stuff {sm4}

 

[MC BOWEN]

Still waiting on mine my supplier sold out but can get one for me in 2-3 weeks.looks like a nice piece.mike b.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I think that in the meantime if the manufactorers are really trying to close the gap on this issue then things will eventually stabilize as far as scaling goes. Hats off to all of them though at the same time as a collective group the TS companies have really been producing some awesome stuff {sm4}

I don't think there is any real effort to close the gap. K&C always had 1/28 figures but did increase the AFV size from 1/32 to 1/30 for better compatibility. TGM has matched K&C. Figarti has moved to 1/30 AFVs and are approaching 1/28 figures. But FL has gone their own way with 1/30 figures (and 1/30 AFVs). And CS has also recently gone their own way with 1/28 AFVs (and 1/28 figures)

Terry

 

[damian]

Just to say that I agree with the sentiment that the manufacturers should do it right. If it says 1:30 on the box that is what it should be.
There are enough books around and computer programs to sort this out. It is extremely annoying that we the collectors have to try and second guess all this.

 

[maddadicus]

I think it might be interesting if someone with the formulas ,could convert the actual real dimensions of the various tanks into 1/30 scale inches. Then folks could measure their models and see how close they are. I have found several scale conversion sites for modelers that can do this, but since I have made the most noise on this issue, some members might think me biased against CS. whereas folks like Mitch and others offering the info might be more acceptable. For the record, I own the Panther and the early Tiger as well as the halftrack and the dessert armored car..... ,but will withhold my measurements till others chime in..Michael

 

[Mitch]

Michael...

I don't think you are biased you just want accurate answers about scale as a few do. I think this is beyond a one manufacturer issue as it has to an extent affected every manufacturer in relation to their AFV's or figures. Perhaps putting the information in the toy soldier discussion area would make it less likely (by those who do) to be seen as slanted or biased and, then a proper discussion about scale could be had by those who wish to know or, are interested
Mitch

I think it might be interesting if someone with the formulas ,could convert the actual real dimensions of the various tanks into 1/30 scale inches. Then folks could measure their models and see how close they are. I have found several scale conversion sites for modelers that can do this, but since I have made the most noise on this issue, some members might think me biased against CS. whereas folks like Mitch and others offering the info might be more acceptable. For the record, I own the Panther and the early Tiger as well as the halftrack and the dessert armored car..... ,but will withhold my measurements till others chime in..Michael

 

[kilted vampire]

Then you may have a problem because there are few 1/30 figures. Most are 1/28.

Terry

But, ultimately the scale could be based by what the intended height was for the figure. I will state again that not all people are the same size. So as long as we do not have eight foot giants running around I say, we are good. I have stayed out of this mostly because I feel this is just getting silly. I like you guys so I tend to give you guys your head on this. You guys know more about the numbers than I do. Those pictures show how well the tank looks with the figures. Is this not what we all like? The treads look massive as is right. That gives the tank its massiness.

 

[lancer]

Quite right and that is exactly why my CS Tiger is on the way to me. It will be a stand alone set for me but at least it will be a correct looking set. I have the outstanding add-on crew on hold and can hardly wait to put the two together. -- Al

This CS Tiger should arrive in a few hours, unless slowed by all the bad weather and holiday. I am eagerly awaiting it. I state once more that this Tiger 1 appears to me to be the first correctly sized Tiger that we collectors have been offered for all the figures we have been purchasing. As KV states, it is massive, which is correct. Final opinion on arrival.^&grin -- Al

 

[Mitch]

KV...

With respect I fail to see any silliness on this thread. The tank in question may look right with the figures but, that does not make it 1/30th and thats what has been discussed. Making overscaled AFV's to fit overscaled figures and putting it down as 1/30th does not work well for those who understand scale issues. Most of this conversation IMO has been far away from silly and hopefully to many of the new (and old) collectors been informative and, interesting. Unless your meaning the scale conversaions that manufacturers have devised in this hobby and, I would accept and agree that some are indeed silly!!

Al...
Look forward to hearing what you think of the Tiger 1
Mitch

 

[kilted vampire]

Mitch was not referring to anyone in particular. The silliness to me is the ongoing discussion. It seems to me that the buyers will validate with their wallets and seem to have already. We have seen that the figures when placed together with the vehicle look great together. Hence my opinion, that this is "just silly!" (said with Monty Pythonnish voice).{sm4}

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Mitch was not referring to anyone in particular. The silliness to me is the ongoing discussion. It seems to me that the buyers will validate with their wallets and seem to have already. We have seen that the figures when placed together with the vehicle look great together. Hence my opinion, that this is "just silly!" (said with Monty Pythonnish voice).{sm4}

I think there is a need to know what the real scale of an AFVis before buying to avoid unpleasant surprises.. Many collectors are buying without having seen the model and really should know how the model's size will compare to others in the collection.

That's why I believe these scale discussions are useful beforehand, although most AFVs are now 1/30 scale.

Terry

 

[kilted vampire]

I think there is a need to know what the real scale of an AFVis before buying to avoid unpleasant surprises.. Many collectors are buying without having seen the model and really should know how the model's size will compare to others in the collection.

That's why I believe these scale discussions are useful beforehand, although most AFVs are now 1/30 scale.

Terry

True enough but has not this been done already? Why keep going on about it? Is it because it is not clear? Here are the dimensions of the Tiger 1



Dimensions, Length . . . . 20 feet 8 1/2 inches.
(excluding gun)
Width with wide com-
bat track . . . . 12 feet 3 inches
Width with narrow
transport track . . . . 10 feet 4 inches.
Height . . . . 9 feet 4 3/4 inches.
Gun overhang . . . . 7 feet 1/2 inch.
Ground clearance . . . . 1 foot 5 inches.



So then 1/30 scale means what exactly? 1" = 30" Is this correct?

 

[Mitch]

Point taken. I do think Terry makes a very important point that does come out from these discussions. The CS tiger 1 is much bigger than the HB or K&C versions and, had we not had this discussion and asked for pictures I know that I would have bought it even with the other caveats I had about it and, would have also bought the winter variant. I decided not to because of the scale and, I know a few who have contacted me stating they were glad of the discussions as they thought it would have stood alone in their collection and not blended in.
Mitch

Mitch was not referring to anyone in particular. The silliness to me is the ongoing discussion. It seems to me that the buyers will validate with their wallets and seem to have already. We have seen that the figures when placed together with the vehicle look great together. Hence my opinion, that this is "just silly!" (said with Monty Pythonnish voice).{sm4}

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Our new armored line is now fabulously scaled to the industries figures: 1/30th having been used as a universal scale denominator for those figures since the early 90's.

All vehicles in our armored line are now perfect for existing figures collections and scaled meticulously to each other: whereas previously no manufacturer was making correctly scaled vehicles for the figures and in most cases are still not.

Our vehicles have been sell-outs just for those reasons.

Finally armor that looks correct to the figures: this should be a joy to all!

Cheers,

Brian

 

[Phantom Warrior]

As far as I know, there are few WWII series where the figures fit with the AFVs. The Honour Bound AFVs and figures were 1/30 and so are the First legion figures and AFVs. Figarti had 1/32 AFVs and figures. And now it seems that CS has matched the figures and AFVs to the same scale but at 1/28.

Current production by K&C, TGM and Figarti have 1/30 AFVs and 1/28 figures. The old K&C AFVs were 1/32. The old CS AFVS and figures were also different scales.

So there is lots of variation between manufacturers and within the products of each individual manufacturer.

Because there has been so much scale variation and there continues to be variation in scales, it is important for collectors to understand what they are getting. If only one scale had been used since the beginning for both AFVs and figures, this discussion would never take place. But because of scale variations which change over time, this topic frequently crops up.

Terry

 

[maddadicus]

Our new armored line is now fabulously scaled to the industries figures: 1/30th having been used as a universal scale denominator for those figures since the early 90's.

All vehicles in our armored line are now perfect for existing figures collections and scaled meticulously to each other: whereas previously no manufacturer was making correctly scaled vehicles for the figures and in most cases are still not.

Our vehicles have been sell-outs just for those reasons.

Finally armor that looks correct to the figures: this should be a joy to all!

Cheers,

Brian

OK, I'll bite. What seems wrong with the size of the CS Panther compared to standard industry figures? The figures seem too large for this vehicle which makes this model too small vs the new Tiger....Michael

 

[Mitch]

Brian...

Are you saying that you feel the industry figures are 1/30th and have been since the 90's? I think its being shown that this is not the case and, my thoughts are rather similar on this scale issue as Terry. there is a scale banner that the hobby falls under i.e. 1/30th. but, within that well used sales banner is great variation. The latest releases from your company are now fitting the industry figures but, thats by scale measurement because the AFV's have enlarged not, because they fit 1/30th bang on. Would it not have been easier to have reduced the scale of the figures or, stated that figures are larger than scale in comparison to the AFV's which, are 1/30th.

Collectors have shelves of AFV's which, have leaned from underscaled 1/32nd to hitting 1/30th to now moving towards 1/28th in a short space of time

We all, or, a lot, know the scales involved and this is what I meant when I said that manufacturers are at the cause of the scale debate. What your now saying I think is that the AFV's are not so bang on 1/30th as just fit perfectly with existing industry figures. These are two different things are they not?
Mitch

Our new armored line is now fabulously scaled to the industries figures: 1/30th having been used as a universal scale denominator for those figures since the early 90's.

All vehicles in our armored line are now perfect for existing figures collections and scaled meticulously to each other: whereas previously no manufacturer was making correctly scaled vehicles for the figures and in most cases are still not.

Our vehicles have been sell-outs just for those reasons.

Finally armor that looks correct to the figures: this should be a joy to all!

Cheers,

Brian