2019-2020 Hot Stove League (1 Viewer)

For what it's worth, here is my .02.


Sign stealing is as old as Abner Doubleday, it's been done forever, the only change is now technology is involved.

As someone who, oh I don't know, actually played the game from age 7 until my mid 30's, it was something that was always on the table. We had a high school coach who changed the indicator before every game "when I touch my left ear, that's the indicator"...…..then next game "when I touch my right ear, that's the indicator"...….etc...…...in the park league (Boston amateur league one step below the Cape league) we had a first base coach who got as far as AAA, he was the master of sign stealing.

Pitchers have used gel, pine tar, vasoline, nail files to doctor the baseball, players have used corked bats and pine tar, players used uppers and greenies, the sport was dying until McGuire and Sosa came along, don't tell me the league had no clue about steroids, people don't want to see a 2-1 game, they want moon shot home runs...…………….check out the home run Bonds hit at the old Yankee stadium some time on YouTube, it landed about 3/4ths' of the way up in the upper deck...………….the announcers reaction as well as the crowd reaction gives me goose bumps, Yankee fans gave him a standing ovation as he rounded the bases.

To keep any steroid user out of the HOF is hypocrisy at it's finest by MLB.

To me, this is a giant nothingburger.

Go ahead, suspend and fire managers and GM's (and I'm with Jason; what does a GM have to do with what goes on on the field/in the dugout, such BS, talk about an overreach) all you want, put an * next to the 2017 and 2018 World Series titles, do whatever you want.

Not going to change the fact that the Astros and Red Sox won those World Series; stop with the hand wringing and the integrity of the game BS...………………….

Had someone suggest both of those WS title should be vacated; yeah, that's a solid plan...…………..:rolleyes2:.

"Good for MLB to crack down on cheating"...………

Give me a break.

Ok, that might have been .04 cents...………………...anyway...…………….
 
Warrior said:
For what it's worth, here is my .02.


Sign stealing is as old as Abner Doubleday, it's been done forever, the only change is now technology is involved.

As someone who, oh I don't know, actually played the game from age 7 until my mid 30's, it was something that was always on the table. We had a high school coach who changed the indicator before every game "when I touch my left ear, that's the indicator"...…..then next game "when I touch my right ear, that's the indicator"...….etc...…...in the park league (Boston amateur league one step below the Cape league) we had a first base coach who got as far as AAA, he was the master of sign stealing.

Pitchers have used gel, pine tar, vasoline, nail files to doctor the baseball, players have used corked bats and pine tar, players used uppers and greenies, the sport was dying until McGuire and Sosa came along, don't tell me the league had no clue about steroids, people don't want to see a 2-1 game, they want moon shot home runs...…………….check out the home run Bonds hit at the old Yankee stadium some time on YouTube, it landed about 3/4ths' of the way up in the upper deck...………….the announcers reaction as well as the crowd reaction gives me goose bumps, Yankee fans gave him a standing ovation as he rounded the bases.

To keep any steroid user out of the HOF is hypocrisy at it's finest by MLB.

To me, this is a giant nothingburger.

Go ahead, suspend and fire managers and GM's (and I'm with Jason; what does a GM have to do with what goes on on the field/in the dugout, such BS, talk about an overreach) all you want, put an * next to the 2017 and 2018 World Series titles, do whatever you want.

Not going to change the fact that the Astros and Red Sox won those World Series; stop with the hand wringing and the integrity of the game BS...………………….

Had someone suggest both of those WS title should be vacated; yeah, that's a solid plan...…………..:rolleyes2:.

"Good for MLB to crack down on cheating"...………

Give me a break.

Ok, that might have been .04 cents...………………...anyway...…………….
Click to expand...

It's wokeness writ large in professional baseball, George. The league and its members now all signal their virtue.

Prost!
Brad
 
Warrior said:
For what it's worth, here is my .02.


Sign stealing is as old as Abner Doubleday, it's been done forever, the only change is now technology is involved.

As someone who, oh I don't know, actually played the game from age 7 until my mid 30's, it was something that was always on the table. We had a high school coach who changed the indicator before every game "when I touch my left ear, that's the indicator"...…..then next game "when I touch my right ear, that's the indicator"...….etc...…...in the park league (Boston amateur league one step below the Cape league) we had a first base coach who got as far as AAA, he was the master of sign stealing.

Pitchers have used gel, pine tar, vasoline, nail files to doctor the baseball, players have used corked bats and pine tar, players used uppers and greenies, the sport was dying until McGuire and Sosa came along, don't tell me the league had no clue about steroids, people don't want to see a 2-1 game, they want moon shot home runs...…………….check out the home run Bonds hit at the old Yankee stadium some time on YouTube, it landed about 3/4ths' of the way up in the upper deck...………….the announcers reaction as well as the crowd reaction gives me goose bumps, Yankee fans gave him a standing ovation as he rounded the bases.

To keep any steroid user out of the HOF is hypocrisy at it's finest by MLB.

To me, this is a giant nothingburger.

Go ahead, suspend and fire managers and GM's (and I'm with Jason; what does a GM have to do with what goes on on the field/in the dugout, such BS, talk about an overreach) all you want, put an * next to the 2017 and 2018 World Series titles, do whatever you want.

Not going to change the fact that the Astros and Red Sox won those World Series; stop with the hand wringing and the integrity of the game BS...………………….

Had someone suggest both of those WS title should be vacated; yeah, that's a solid plan...…………..:rolleyes2:.

"Good for MLB to crack down on cheating"...………

Give me a break.

Ok, that might have been .04 cents...………………...anyway...…………….
Click to expand...


YAWN, seriously, what George said!!!! This asterisk crap is old. Barry Bonds is one of the greatest bat speed hitters to ever play. He is an elite athlete who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. He was never caught, convicted, etc. I don't give a crap what sportswriters think. STeroids didn't improve his god given ability and talent, it may have enhanced it but so do "legal" supplements, so do "no-dos", so does caffeine, so does taurine.........................who cares. Guy deserves the Hall.

So does Roger Clemens. So does Pete Rose (GOOD GOD , if Ty Cobb who was a murderer can be in there, time to forgive Charlie Hussle).

Nuff said.
 
theBaron said:
It's wokeness writ large in professional baseball, George. The league and its members now all signal their virtue.

Prost!
Brad
Click to expand...

Yeah those who run the league and those who participate it are all as pure as the driven snow.

Problem is they drifted...…………...
 
tdubel said:
YAWN, seriously, what George said!!!! This asterisk crap is old. Barry Bonds is one of the greatest bat speed hitters to ever play. He is an elite athlete who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. He was never caught, convicted, etc. I don't give a crap what sportswriters think. STeroids didn't improve his god given ability and talent, it may have enhanced it but so do "legal" supplements, so do "no-dos", so does caffeine, so does taurine.........................who cares. Guy deserves the Hall.

So does Roger Clemens. So does Pete Rose (GOOD GOD , if Ty Cobb who was a murderer can be in there, time to forgive Charlie Hussle).

Nuff said.
Click to expand...

And here's the other thing about sign stealing; you can tip the batter off, but he still has to hit the ball.

If the pitcher held up the baseball and said to me "Here comes a 4 seam fastball"...……...great; but I still have to square up the apple and get a hit.

What a farce.

They're talking here about a 2-5 year ban for Cora.

Unbelievable.
 
Warrior said:
And here's the other thing about sign stealing; you can tip the batter off, but he still has to hit the ball.

If the pitcher held up the baseball and said to me "Here comes a 4 seam fastball"...……...great; but I still have to square up the apple and get a hit.

What a farce.

They're talking here about a 2-5 year ban for Cora.

Unbelievable.
Click to expand...

Knowing what pitch is coming gives the hitter a significant advantage. While the hot dog vendor might not be able to hit the ball anyway, a major league baseball players sure can. Hard to fathom how anyone could argue it is not cheating and that it does not provide a team with a major advantage.
 
Combat said:
Knowing what pitch is coming gives the hitter a significant advantage. While the hot dog vendor might not be able to hit the ball anyway, a major league baseball players sure can. Hard to fathom how anyone could argue it is not cheating and that it does not provide a team with a major advantage.
Click to expand...

You really need your own YouTube channel, think "Pittsburg Dad" only it would be "Carlisle Dad"...………….like his, yours would be a YouTube sensation.

If it was such a huge advantage, why didn't both teams have multiple players bat in the mid to high .300's then, if you know what's coming on every pitch, you should as a MLB hitter be able to tee off according to you.

If it the result of this investigation by MLB reveals only two teams were stealing signs, I'll be stunned.

And I find it interesting that MLB investigated the Astros for a few months and dropped the hammer, while it took the NFL almost a year and five million dollars to tell the world that "There is no smoking gun on Tom Brady, but we think he was 'generally aware' something was going on"...…………………..and the owner got whacked 1 million bucks and the team lost yet another #1 draft pick.

Shows you what a broken toilet the NFL really is.
 
This today from a MLB forum I belong to;

"Any chance Beltran had a hand in helping the Yankees come up with something for sign stealing in 2019?
He was hired in Dec 2018 as a "special advisor" to Cashman and the following season the yankees get huge contributions from guys you wouldn't expect. I mean think about all the guys they hit on, it's amazing.
Something to think about."

IE, all the tomato cans they continually find in other teams organizations who then come to the Bronx and are the second coming of DiMaggio...……...stiffs like Geno Orshella, Luke Voit, that other stiff they got from the Rockies who's name escapes me...…………………………...


​
 
that WS title too. WS titles should be earned on the field and not by default.

I’ve been a Dodger fan since forever and my family still owns and attends Dodgers games as season ticket holders. I go to 2 -3 games annually and I live in San Antonio, TX.

About “the purity of the game”; baseball is run by humans and there for its flawed at times. However, does that mean there shouldn’t be a standard of conduct?

If so, then the only wrong, is getting caught. Therefore, win at all cost and be rewarded with congratulations, awards and of course, money and lots of it! Yeah, that doesn’t fly with me.

Oh yeah George, the comment about “that’s the only way the Dodgers can win”. That’s MLB saying this, not the Dodgers! How much commentary are you reading or hearing about how the Dodgers are or their fans crying about this?

Besides, that’s pretty rich considering it the Red Sox decades to win championships, despite having some of the greatest teams (T. Williams, Foxx, Yaz, Fisk/ Rice, etc.) in history…

You are way out of line on this one! You’re re entitled to your opinions and yes, so am I.

Carlos
 
Combat said:
Knowing what pitch is coming gives the hitter a significant advantage. While the hot dog vendor might not be able to hit the ball anyway, a major league baseball players sure can. Hard to fathom how anyone could argue it is not cheating and that it does not provide a team with a major advantage.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's not cheating, and I don't disagree that being able to read your opponent's signs and get a tip about what he's going to do doesn't confer an advantage.

But I think it is not nearly as serious as so many in the media do, and in the front offices around the league do. as they now wail, and beat their collective breast and rend their garments. And I don't agree that it confers a major advantage. As was noted before, you can steal a sign, but you still have to hit the ball, or beat the throw.

I think the hysteria is just that-hysteria, and it's a symptom of the broader culture.
 
I fully agree with Carlos and Doug and to the Baron: yes, it’s serious. It’s using technology to gain an advantage. It gives you an advantage others don’t have.

And this isn’t a media creation. Manfred brought the hammer down. Read the report. Manfred warmed every club in September 2017 not to use these tools to gain an advantage. He couldn’t have been any clearer. The Astros, through acts of omission and commission, chose to ignore this edict. When you do that, you act at your peril.

If I were a Yankee or Dodger fan, I’d be furious. As a baseball fan, I’m ticked. Manfred should have vacated the 2017 title at the very least. As a Mets fan, I want Beltran gone, but I don’t think he will be fired. However, a lot of pressure is being brought on them so we’ll have to see what happens.
 
desk11desk12 said:
that WS title too. WS titles should be earned on the field and not by default.

I’ve been a Dodger fan since forever and my family still owns and attends Dodgers games as season ticket holders. I go to 2 -3 games annually and I live in San Antonio, TX.

About “the purity of the game”; baseball is run by humans and there for its flawed at times. However, does that mean there shouldn’t be a standard of conduct?

If so, then the only wrong, is getting caught. Therefore, win at all cost and be rewarded with congratulations, awards and of course, money and lots of it! Yeah, that doesn’t fly with me.

Oh yeah George, the comment about “that’s the only way the Dodgers can win”. That’s MLB saying this, not the Dodgers! How much commentary are you reading or hearing about how the Dodgers are or their fans crying about this?

Besides, that’s pretty rich considering it the Red Sox decades to win championships, despite having some of the greatest teams (T. Williams, Foxx, Yaz, Fisk/ Rice, etc.) in history…

You are way out of line on this one! You’re re entitled to your opinions and yes, so am I.

Carlos
Click to expand...

You need to type slower.

Or in crayon.
 
jazzeum said:
If I were a Yankee or Dodger fan, I’d be furious. As a baseball fan, I’m ticked. Manfred should have vacated the 2017 title at the very least. As a Mets fan, I want Beltran gone, but I don’t think he will be fired. However, a lot of pressure is being brought on them so we’ll have to see what happens.
Click to expand...

You seriously think their WS title should be vacated?

And given to whom, the Yankees, who they beat in the ALCS, or the Dodgers, who they beat in the World Series?

OR, maybe have the Yankees play the Dodgers and whoever wins get the trophy?

I'm going to bow out of this thread, it's officially jumped the shark IMO.

IE, it has entered bizarro world.

Have at it fellas; I'm done.
 
And now Beltran has stepped down as Mets manager according to the MLB network. Next... -- Al
 
Warrior said:
You really need your own YouTube channel, think "Pittsburg Dad" only it would be "Carlisle Dad"...………….like his, yours would be a YouTube sensation.

If it was such a huge advantage, why didn't both teams have multiple players bat in the mid to high .300's then, if you know what's coming on every pitch, you should as a MLB hitter be able to tee off according to you.

If it the result of this investigation by MLB reveals only two teams were stealing signs, I'll be stunned.

And I find it interesting that MLB investigated the Astros for a few months and dropped the hammer, while it took the NFL almost a year and five million dollars to tell the world that "There is no smoking gun on Tom Brady, but we think he was 'generally aware' something was going on"...…………………..and the owner got whacked 1 million bucks and the team lost yet another #1 draft pick.

Shows you what a broken toilet the NFL really is.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't a huge advantage, then why did they go to such extremes to do it? Houston and Boston did pretty well with both winning a WS and the Astros coming within one game of another WS. The moral equivalency argument is weak sauce. A lot of people rob banks, so no one should be held accountable when they are caught for robbing a bank? Try that one in front of a judge. Maybe other teams do this. Maybe they don't. We know Houston and Boston did and they got caught. Now it is hammer time. I agree with you on the NFL. They take too long and have let the Pats get away with murder. Goodell will look weak if he lets the Pats get away with it again after MLB has been decisive and dropped the hammer on cheating.
 
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