COVID the 3rd (1 Viewer)

[tdubel]

Ahh, federal intervention. Well, there’s the rub.

This is a very challenging situation with a lot of emotions and concerns. Frankly instead of worrying about opening bars, restaurants
and sporting event we should have prioritized opening schools. What is needed is a national/federal response. Schools and local
communities just don't have the resources and expertise to go it alone.

To make matters even more complex we now know that children ages ten and above are just as contagious as adults when asymptomatic.
In addition teenagers as a group are the most likely to ignore health instructions like wearing masks, social distancing and personal
hygiene. Most of us went through that period of "its never going to happen to me" syndrome when we were teenagers.
Many teachers are in that vulnerable group of 50+ with underlying medical issues. They have to worry about their students, their own
health and infecting their families.

As far as online classes my third grade grandson went through Zoom learning for four months and his parents thought it was a waste. And students
from economically challenged communities often don't have access to computers and their parents are both working or absent so there is
litte supervision for home schooling. What does a working parent do with their kids staying at home?
My grandson's school is proposing two days a week in-school learning and the rest vial Zoom. This way they can cut attendance by half
and have more effective social distancing. Not perfect but maybe a compromise.

The best solution would be to have mandatory daily testing with immediate results. There are tests out there that can do this but
they are not 100% accurate, expensive and in small quantities. The federal government could put large resources into this and recruit
private industry to build up units quickly. Its not a quick fix however and time is running out.
This would solve our general virus spread problem as well.


Another solution would be to build cubicles in each classroom. In my company sales office we had a large "bullpen" of over 100 employees
sitting in these cubicles.....waist high fabric walls with glass or plexiglass extension that make the cubicle at least six feet high. You can
hear and see through them but no body particles from speech, coughing or sneezing could get through, The kids could eat lunch in their
cubicle and only get up for the restrooms which would need to be cleaned often and have hand sanitizers readily available.
Again this would be very expensive and require a federal intervention to both finance and implement.

I am sure there are other ideas out there, all with some risk. I just don't think local communities and schools can do this on their own.

I appreciate what both of you are saying, unfortunately regardless of political lines, we have States and the Feds who can't agree on anything, it really to me is not even political as it crosses party lines.

That said, take the politics out of if b/c my post was not meant in any way political, it is a gargantuan mess.

Rich, some communities/counties do not have the resources, I agree, BUT Baltimore County does. Unfortunately, in my case, I know of no other way to describe it other than incompetence. I guarantee you if this school board was employed at your former Company, they would have lasted 2 days. 1 day to do the paperwork and on the 2nd day, you would have declared them idiots and quickly fired them. IT is that bad. We have Catholic School systems in Maryland that are making our public schools look like the embarrassment that they are. As you pointed out there are a myriad of ideas and the Catholic schools are doing it, some of our public schools are too (NOT mine). I hate to say it , but it actually is making me sick to my stomach to even type it I am so irritated.

Our State Education Czar was basically fired 12 months ago, but as they were finding a replacement, COVID hit and they have kept this person on , JOKE. If someone was being fired for incompetence, how do you expect them to act in a crisis? As I have often said, you just can't make it up.



TD

 

[paxtoysoldier]

I appreciate what both of you are saying, unfortunately regardless of political lines, we have States and the Feds who can't agree on anything, it really to me is not even political as it crosses party lines.

That said, take the politics out of if b/c my post was not meant in any way political, it is a gargantuan mess.

Rich, some communities/counties do not have the resources, I agree, BUT Baltimore County does. Unfortunately, in my case, I know of no other way to describe it other than incompetence. I guarantee you if this school board was employed at your former Company, they would have lasted 2 days. 1 day to do the paperwork and on the 2nd day, you would have declared them idiots and quickly fired them. IT is that bad. We have Catholic School systems in Maryland that are making our public schools look like the embarrassment that they are. As you pointed out there are a myriad of ideas and the Catholic schools are doing it, some of our public schools are too (NOT mine). I hate to say it , but it actually is making me sick to my stomach to even type it I am so irritated.

Our State Education Czar was basically fired 12 months ago, but as they were finding a replacement, COVID hit and they have kept this person on , JOKE. If someone was being fired for incompetence, how do you expect them to act in a crisis? As I have often said, you just can't make it up.

On a follow-up note, ALL Indian references have been removed from the one high school, Thank God for that, we are all now saved from being offended.............................but our kids will not learn one ****nnn thing for the next 6 months.

TD

Illinois agrees.
Paddy of Near Chicago

 

[Panzer ace]

This is a very challenging situation with a lot of emotions and concerns. Frankly instead of worrying about opening bars, restaurants and sporting event we should have prioritized opening schools. What is needed is a national/federal response.

As of 2019 there were 155 million people employed in the US with 20 million of those working in bars and restaurants.

There are 330 million people in the US of which there are 50 million students are in elementary, middle and high school.

I would think that a country as great as the United States would be able to solve multiple problems at once, obviously we cannot.

 

[Desertkiwi]

As of 2019 there were 155 million people employed in the US with 20 million of those working in bars and restaurants.

There are 330 million people in the US of which there are 50 million students are in elementary, middle and high school.

I would think that a country as great as the United States would be able to solve multiple problems at once, obviously we cannot.

Interesting Post PA, my bro who lives in Florida has said similar things. Despite being a Kiwi he's lived most of his adult life in the US and loves the country and is married to a lovely American lady.

Sadly though he's said the Covid crisis has exposed the countries faults to the world in graphic fashion and highlighted a complete lack of leadership that one would expect from such a great nation.

Meanwhile the likes of China take full advantage......

Stay safe my friend as the worlds gone nuts and the US deserves better from its leaders.

 

[OzDigger]

To be fair it won't matter who's in charge if people won't obey the rules.

 

[marco55]

The problem is that the leaders and even the doctors give conflicting info.Don' wear masks,wear masks,stay inside stay outside,this week no groups larger than 25,next week 100,the following week 500,the next week back down to 50. Some places open,some not back in forth it goes each state has different rules.Then if you go from one state to another you have to be quarantined for 14 days.Who can miss 2 weeks of work.As far as people not obeying the rules is that they don't believe anyone anymore.It didn't help that some of these governors and mayors got way too heavy handed with power.The American people are a defiant people and don't take to that kindly.It was suppose to be 2 weeks to a month to flatten the curve,not to cure it.No one said that everyone in the US had to be tested every time they sneezed.Everyone and I mean everyone will be exposed to it eventually one way or another.
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

The conflicting information is global, it's a new highly infective virus that we still don't know much about. You will note lower death rates in countries where the population has cooperated and been less defiant. If people want to complain about the worsening situation maybe they should look in the mirror before blaming their leaders, doctors or other people in general. Everyone needs to take this virus seriously, it's going to be with us for some time.

 

[mikemiller1955]

The conflicting information is global, it's a new highly infective virus that we still don't know much about. You will note lower death rates in countries where the population has cooperated and been less defiant. If people want to complain about the worsening situation maybe they should look in the mirror before blaming their leaders, doctors or other people in general. Everyone needs to take this virus seriously, it's going to be with us for some time.

good post Matt!

 

[marco55]

The conflicting information is global, it's a new highly infective virus that we still don't know much about. You will note lower death rates in countries where the population has cooperated and been less defiant. If people want to complain about the worsening situation maybe they should look in the mirror before blaming their leaders, doctors or other people in general. Everyone needs to take this virus seriously, it's going to be with us for some time.

It's true that it's global and everyone started out trying to do the right thing but as you say it's going to be with us for a while.Humans aren't meant to sit in a house for months upon months.You can't just shut the world down.
Mark

 

[Panzer ace]

Interesting Post PA, my bro who lives in Florida has said similar things. Despite being a Kiwi he's lived most of his adult life in the US and loves the country and is married to a lovely American lady.

Sadly though he's said the Covid crisis has exposed the countries faults to the world in graphic fashion and highlighted a complete lack of leadership that one would expect from such a great nation.

Meanwhile the likes of China take full advantage......

Stay safe my friend as the worlds gone nuts and the US deserves better from its leaders.

Toddy:

I hope all is well with you and your family.

I have an interesting perspective on the pandemic. I am a type 1 diabetic so I have been following the advice of health experts and our leaders as best I can.

I have also been getting regular updates from my brother who lives in Melbourne on how the Australian government has handled the crisis. Some of it echoes what is being done in the US while other aspects are drastically different.

Stay safe!

-Jason

 

[OzDigger]

It's true that it's global and everyone started out trying to do the right thing but as you say it's going to be with us for a while.Humans aren't meant to sit in a house for months upon months.You can't just shut the world down.
Mark

Well No, not everyone started out trying to do the right thing, haven't you noticed the high number of deaths in your country. In fact it was a minority that did the right thing. Mainly those more likely to die such as the elderly, or those who shared a house with elderly, or those with compromised immunity. As I said in earlier posts this Virus is very contagious and causes few symptoms initially. That allows it spread much more effectively than most other viruses, and if it gains a foothold it escalates and can cause death from pneumonia etc.

Of course it's easy for younger people to say just let it run its course until we get some sort of herd immunity. That is what Sweden did from the outset, currently they have 5,646 people dead against 126 in Australia, and Sweden has less than half Australia's population. Now Sweden is having an investigation into how they got this so wrong. That said, there's no easy fix for this virus, you need to balance economic values against human values, no win win situation what ever you do.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Toddy:

I hope all is well with you and your family.

I have an interesting perspective on the pandemic. I am a type 1 diabetic so I have been following the advice of health experts and our leaders as best I can.

I have also been getting regular updates from my brother who lives in Melbourne on how the Australian government has handled the crisis. Some of it echoes what is being done in the US while other aspects are drastically different.

Stay safe!

-Jason

Great to hear from ya Jason, the families fine mate, but I’m heading back to help guard one of our “isolation” hotels again shortly which doesn’t thrill me one bit.

I’ve got family members with diabetes and Covid is a real threat to anyone with the condition and having to manage it under the present crisis is a real challenge. Take care my friend.

Have had some interesting chats with some of my Aussie cousins regarding the resurgence of Covid in the state of Victoria and it sounds like they were quite liberal in the beginning with their approach to the crisis and are paying a price now.

The reality of course is that viruses don’t abide by any rules or regulations and I firmly believe most of us will eventually be exposed to it in some shape or form sometime in the not so distant future.

Cheers for now. Toddy :salute::

 

[marco55]

Well No, not everyone started out trying to do the right thing, haven't you noticed the high number of deaths in your country. In fact it was a minority that did the right thing. Mainly those more likely to die such as the elderly, or those who shared a house with elderly, or those with compromised immunity. As I said in earlier posts this Virus is very contagious and causes few symptoms initially. That allows it spread much more effectively than most other viruses, and if it gains a foothold it escalates and can cause death from pneumonia etc.

Of course it's easy for younger people to say just let it run its course until we get some sort of herd immunity. That is what Sweden did from the outset, currently they have 5,646 people dead against 126 in Australia, and Sweden has less than half Australia's population. Now Sweden is having an investigation into how they got this so wrong. That said, there's no easy fix for this virus, you need to balance economic values against human values, no win win situation what ever you do.

Well actually most did try to do the right thing.Around half of our deaths are mistakes done at our nursing homes.We also have 330 million people and some very large cities with dense population .Even though they put the travel bans millions came from overseas before they took effect and spread throughout the country.I've had a lot of people disagree with me on things at first but even those are fed up with all the lockdowns and all the flipflops. I will even go so far as to say that the virus is being spread on purpose.Now maybe a lot of people will laugh at that but my opinion has been closer to the mark than most.
Mark

 

[tdubel]

Well No, not everyone started out trying to do the right thing, haven't you noticed the high number of deaths in your country. In fact it was a minority that did the right thing. Mainly those more likely to die such as the elderly, or those who shared a house with elderly, or those with compromised immunity. As I said in earlier posts this Virus is very contagious and causes few symptoms initially. That allows it spread much more effectively than most other viruses, and if it gains a foothold it escalates and can cause death from pneumonia etc.

Of course it's easy for younger people to say just let it run its course until we get some sort of herd immunity. That is what Sweden did from the outset, currently they have 5,646 people dead against 126 in Australia, and Sweden has less than half Australia's population. Now Sweden is having an investigation into how they got this so wrong. That said, there's no easy fix for this virus, you need to balance economic values against human values, no win win situation what ever you do.

Matt,
Not sure your first statement is fair. Our death rate is subject to a lot of interpretation. We have a terrible amount of nursing home deaths as well as pre exist conditions. There is a lot of factual data that will not be sorted out for years.

And I do believe the majority of people have tried to do the "right" thing, the problem is the definition of that. In my zip code, "we did and have a very low rate across the board".

This is a much more complex question and there are a lot of unknowns here still. It varies by time and location, etc. We do not have an expert yet who has been correct.

Tom

 

[marco55]

There are so many things going on you don't know what to believe.I heard a woman tested positive but wasn't sick was tested 15 times and was put down as 15 cases.Also heard that people were listed as covid related illness or death that wasn't but that way the medical bills would be paid by the feds.Now I don't know if these things are true or not but this is the kind of stuff that's getting people confused and angry.By and large I've heard most doctors and other leaders say the data is way off.
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

Matt,
Not sure your first statement is fair. Our death rate is subject to a lot of interpretation. We have a terrible amount of nursing home deaths as well as pre exist conditions. There is a lot of factual data that will not be sorted out for years.

And I do believe the majority of people have tried to do the "right" thing, the problem is the definition of that. In my zip code, "we did and have a very low rate across the board".

This is a much more complex question and there are a lot of unknowns here still. It varies by time and location, etc. We do not have an expert yet who has been correct.

Tom

Tom
I believe my First statement is entirely correct, it should be clear by now that not Everybody as asserted by Mark, was cooperative. I then suggested only a Minority of US citizens cooperated. I don't have any evidence to back that up, just an impression I got based on what has occurred, together with remarks made by some forum members. Sorry if I caused any offence, it just seems crazy to me why some forum members are suggesting this virus is 'normal' and not something to continue combating where possible.

 

[OzDigger]

There are so many things going on you don't know what to believe.I heard a woman tested positive but wasn't sick was tested 15 times and was put down as 15 cases.Also heard that people were listed as covid related illness or death that wasn't but that way the medical bills would be paid by the feds.Now I don't know if these things are true or not but this is the kind of stuff that's getting people confused and angry.By and large I've heard most doctors and other leaders say the data is way off.
Mark

The precise number of deaths is irrelevant, it should be clear that to many people have died in your country. You said everyone cooperated, yet I still see comments on this form that masks are a waste of time. I would agree masks have less value where few people in the immediate population may be infected however it would be wise to use them in larger outbreaks.

In Australia the police will fine you if you breach distance laws and non wearing of masks in certain areas. Would that happen in America, or would there be an outcry of civil rights per your constitution?

 

[OzDigger]

I guess it would be wiser of me not to discuss what happens in other countries, a bit like the rest of the world suggesting the Brits haven't thought this Brexit thing thru.

 

[tdubel]

Tom
I believe my First statement is entirely correct, it should be clear by now that not Everybody as asserted by Mark, was cooperative. I then suggested only a Minority of US citizens cooperated. I don't have any evidence to back that up, just an impression I got based on what has occurred, together with remarks made by some forum members. Sorry if I caused any offence, it just seems crazy to me why some forum members are suggesting this virus is 'normal' and not something to continue combating where possible.

Matt,
I think it all depends literally on where you live and what zip code you are in. To suggest a minority of US Citizens followed guidance is just not true. They did and do daily, that is what I see everyday.

Also, again, the numbers from this mess will not be finalized for years but 1 death is too many from anything, but they happen. I am just a realist in this part of it, that is just my opinion and outlook.

Again, we have a very high mortality rate amongst a specific age group and population - elderly and nursing homes. It is terrible, and I am sure there is going to be years worth of analysis and finger pointing in that regard for many years to come.

The US is a big place with a crap ton of people in it. Some of us on the forum live in more populated areas than others and you will see a large difference of opinions. I happen to live in suburbia, my parents are in Rural Maryland, other family in Rural Pennsylvania. The major death numbers as well as infected numbers are heavier concentrated in more urban areas. It is easy math - more people, more odds of it being there. SO, if in an urban area, you have an exponentially higher chance of coming into contact with the virus. For example, no offense to my NYC friends, but you could not pay me to travel there right now.

Finally - are there a contingent who are bad apples, yes. But I don't think they are the majority as for example, if I go to the post office, grocery store, hardware, etc, I have seen 100% compliance with mask wearing. I have not been all over the Country obviously, but I can't imagine for the majority it is that much different. When I was in Rural PA, I saw the same thing even in a tiny hunting/fishing shop I went in.

Virus is serious and I believe the majority of the US believe it. I think that is why nearly all large gatherings of any kind are not happening, Schools are virtual, Colleges are virtual, workplaces are CLOSED, I work for a very large Company worldwide and our offices are closed til further notice. Do they need to be? I don't know as the setup is over and above any CDC guidance, but the majority of workers are unsure to go in, so for now we are 100% virtual. Will this eventually hurt business, my answer is Yes it will . The 12 month outlook no so good.

Just some thoughts, points, etc.
Tom

 

[tdubel]

I guess it would be wiser of me not to discuss what happens in other countries, a bit like the rest of the world suggesting the Brits haven't thought this Brexit thing thru.

No worries at all, I just wanted to provide my opinion back. As I have said before, what you see on the news and what is really happening on the ground is usually 2 different things. Unfortunately, media typically only highlights the "sensational", "clickbait" type of headline. Heaven forbid we actually would have normal or good news, their ratings would tank!

TD