COVID the 3rd (1 Viewer)

[ExRanger]

All,

The mask debate (why is it a debate anyway?) was the simplest and easiest solution to stop or slow the spread. But, the order has to come from the top and forthrightly invoked with the spirt of leading by example. If you give the public a choice or a moment to reflect on the "idea" or "suggestions", its human nature to debate and question why such an idea or suggestion is being made and challenge it. However, if it is an order...a clear order...that has a reason behind for the end game solution or win, then we are all for it and will find it our duty to do our part.

There has been no order from the top and certainly no leading by example.

Rut,

Your post nailed it.

Panzer,

Thats a lot of traveling, be careful.

George,

God has been sorting it out and sadly a lot of those souls could have been saved early on, IF they would have listened. Likewise, there are those who have been taken from us who did everything right and still passed. Its a conundrum.

Joe,

It can be a "macho man" syndrome or just plain vanity. I don't know what it is and after all these months I find it just plain dumb. As much as I want to rag on California, Texas has its fair share of anti-maskers who ridicule, taunt and thumb their noses at masks. But, if you want that BBQ sandwich from Bill Millers or that PVC pipe from Home Depot you better mask up or you ain't eating nor finishing your job to get paid. So, there.

ExRanger,

NY always steps up. Its amazing to see the unity from the citizens of NY and how serious they are about banding together to solving a problem or coming up with a solution. Pride man...pride! I love NY and plan to visit again once this is all over.

Combat,

I respect you and I also respect Gov. Cuomo. I watched his briefings daily and learned something new everyday. He was not flighty or arrogant. He begged and pleaded with his state, the Feds and anyone else who would listen to pay attention. He, in my opinion had and still has the proper attitude towards this pandemic as a elected leader. This type of situation is new ( the last one was a 100 years ago) and I believe in my heart of hearts he did and is doing the best he can. I admire him for that and I wish EVERY Governor would take a page from his play book and do the same thing. Some have and sadly some have not. Regardless, 10 years from now it will be Gov. Cuomo who is judged in history as a LEADER. He set the bar high...made his mark and yes thousands of New Yorkers died and will continue to die, but so will others in all 50 states and round the world.

He lead by example and still does.

It was a 102 yesterday and starting tomorrow we get a break from the heat wave for a week as our temps will go down to 99 to 95. I love it!

John from Texas

John, well put. Thank You.

 

[joesgis]

I have been to the following cities (in the last 60 days) during the pandemic:

Austin TX
Carmel CA
Denver CO
Houston TX
Los Gatos CA
Menlo Park CA
Monterey CA
Palo Alto CA
San Antonio TX
San Francisco CA
San Jose CA
Shavano Park TX

In those cities I have been to airports, grocery stores, malls, pharmacies and restaurants (plus Sierra Toy Soldier).

i have yet to see anyone not wearing a mask in those places.

Jason,
That's awesome and good to hear! The funny thing is when I was typing my response on this topic last night I thought about writing how I could literally walk out my front door and within minutes I would see a person outside not wearing a mask. I decided not to write that. Well, fast forward to this morning as I'm walking out the front door on my way to work. The first person I encounter is within 20 seconds, and he is not wearing a mask. It's sounding like it might just be a socal thing?

Joe

 

[tdubel]

I would suggest this thread stays away from the critique of leader's reactions, etc. IT is territory that continues to be an issue with this thread. Bottom line is none of them are perfect or we would have had zero deaths and common sense will go a long way in dealing with this ordeal that is here to stay for 12 month future.

Let's stick to the virus itself and not the opinions of how each different leader is doing or I can guarantee you this thread is history in a "New York Minute".

Common sense - wear a mask, avoid large indoor gatherings, avoid amusement parks, when visiting a beach, find a spot that is not on top of the next person, avoid bars that are indoors and close quarters, wash your hands, use sanitizer, etc etc. So much of this is common sense at this point, if you act brazenly, be prepared to deal with the consequences.

TD

 

[Panzer ace]

Jason,
That's awesome and good to hear! The funny thing is when I was typing my response on this topic last night I thought about writing how I could literally walk out my front door and within minutes I would see a person outside not wearing a mask. I decided not to write that. Well, fast forward to this morning as I'm walking out the front door on my way to work. The first person I encounter is within 20 seconds, and he is not wearing a mask. It's sounding like it might just be a socal thing?

Joe

Joe:

I truly don’t know the reasons why people don’t wear the mask. I just know that in my travels I haven’t encountered anyone not wearing them when asked to.

I will readily admit that I like wearing a mask. Now, if they just required people to wear sunglasses, I wouldn’t standout so much!

-Jason

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

For heavens sake...my son went to pick up some ordered t-shirts for our shop and went into their home. The t-shirt lady makes all the schools t-shirts and her daughter is a cheerleader who my son adores. Anyway, yesterday he went to pick up an order and went inside their home to pick up the box. The mom just notified us today that one of their other daughters just tested positive for COVID.

When the wife found out she drilled him if they or he was wearing a mask. The answer was no and he was only supposed to pick up or drop off t-shirts on the front porch and never go inside. But, he did and the wife is pissed because she has surgery next week to take out the cancer in her breast. Now heres the conundrum: he can't go tested because the city has mandated that if you have no symptoms, you get no test. Also, since we don't know if he has it he cannot make contact with his mom and frankly she doesn't want to see him because she is soooo pissed at him because of his recklessness and not following instructions. Yet, he has to come home because he lives here. Likewise, he works at our shop and if he has it, he effectively could potentially infect our staff. But we don't know these scenarios because he can't get tested. So, we are pulling the plug on my son and he will be quarantined for 14 days.

The t-shirt lady (her real name is Christina, everyone calls her that nick name though) is in a panic right now and she disclosed that they went to one social gathering and thats how her daughter got it. No telling who else in her family has it as well. But, Christina has asthma and diabetes, so we are scared for her.

On a personal note, I made a promise to my self right after Spring Break when they shut down the schools. I was outside in the wee hours of the morning processing what was about to happen...no school, everyones home, fear, etc. Anyway, I know how I am (is your room clean?) and simply said to myself to "be cool" during this entire episode and thats been my mantra since. So, I know my son f-uped and he is going to get a *** chewing from his mother from here to eternity. But, I have (yes HAVE) to be cool and be the good cop because you just can't have two parents barreling down on you. Now remember this comes off the heels of the speeding episode, so I am trying my best not to bring the heat as he already got maligned for that one.

This one is serious though and is making my blood pressure rise because the scenarios of exposure are too much to process. Oh and by the way, this happened yesterday...the day he finished his last class to graduate early from high school.

John from Texas

 

[Desertkiwi]

All,

For heavens sake...my son went to pick up some ordered t-shirts for our shop and went into their home. The t-shirt lady makes all the schools t-shirts and her daughter is a cheerleader who my son adores. Anyway, yesterday he went to pick up an order and went inside their home to pick up the box. The mom just notified us today that one of their other daughters just tested positive for COVID.

When the wife found out she drilled him if they or he was wearing a mask. The answer was no and he was only supposed to pick up or drop off t-shirts on the front porch and never go inside. But, he did and the wife is pissed because she has surgery next week to take out the cancer in her breast. Now heres the conundrum: he can't go tested because the city has mandated that if you have no symptoms, you get no test. Also, since we don't know if he has it he cannot make contact with his mom and frankly she doesn't want to see him because she is soooo pissed at him because of his recklessness and not following instructions. Yet, he has to come home because he lives here. Likewise, he works at our shop and if he has it, he effectively could potentially infect our staff. But we don't know these scenarios because he can't get tested. So, we are pulling the plug on my son and he will be quarantined for 14 days.

The t-shirt lady (her real name is Christina, everyone calls her that nick name though) is in a panic right now and she disclosed that they went to one social gathering and thats how her daughter got it. No telling who else in her family has it as well. But, Christina has asthma and diabetes, so we are scared for her.

On a personal note, I made a promise to my self right after Spring Break when they shut down the schools. I was outside in the wee hours of the morning processing what was about to happen...no school, everyones home, fear, etc. Anyway, I know how I am (is your room clean?) and simply said to myself to "be cool" during this entire episode and thats been my mantra since. So, I know my son f-uped and he is going to get a *** chewing from his mother from here to eternity. But, I have (yes HAVE) to be cool and be the good cop because you just can't have two parents barreling down on you. Now remember this comes off the heels of the speeding episode, so I am trying my best not to bring the heat as he already got maligned for that one.

This one is serious though and is making my blood pressure rise because the scenarios of exposure are too much to process. Oh and by the way, this happened yesterday...the day he finished his last class to graduate early from high school.

John from Texas

John, as you know kids do dumb stuff all the time, even the smart ones, but I understand your frustration. I work with Youth and yeah their brains are still developing and they screw up plenty. But I guess that's how they learn not to be a dumb-***.

I'm sure he'll be sweating buckets right now as the ramifications for his actions slowly sink in.

Good idea to quarantine him, but don't get why he can't get Covid tested? That's ridiculous!

That's not good news about your good lady, that operation is the priority now.

Stay safe mate!

 

[Louis Badolato]

John,

I think Toddy said it best. I am very sorry to hear about your son's potential exposure, and I hope he gets a clean bill of health after your self-imposed quarantine. More importantly, your wife will be in my family's thoughts and prayers. Please keep us posted.

Regards,

Louis

P.S. Once you are done punishing him for the speeding and this latest genius move, please extend my congratulations to him for graduating early!:salute::

 

[hotel3alpha]

John,

I think Toddy said it best. I am very sorry to hear about your son's potential exposure, and I hope he gets a clean bill of health after your self-imposed quarantine. More importantly, your wife will be in my family's thoughts and prayers. Please keep us posted.

Regards,

Louis

P.S. Once you are done punishing him for the speeding and this latest genius move, please extend my congratulations to him for graduating early!:salute::

Yeah, Louis I may be airing out too much family drama here, but hell the stress of COVID just isn't enough y'know for these kids. I don't remember going through the "frontal lobe" development phase, but I could be wrong...in fact I probably am. Thank God, Uncle Sam sorted that out for me and kept me busy. I did find out later in the aftermath of the incident that he did in fact wear a mask and the t-shirt lady said he is probably the most disciplined masked wearer she knows. So, he got a reprieve from his mother...a little one...and sent him upstairs to his room with dinner in hand. He came down later and washed his own dishes with a mask and gloves on. The *** chewing he got was for the books.

My daughter has so much anxiety about attending college this fall that she wants me to go with her to help her find her way around campus. I told her not to worry because the likely hood that she will have classes on line ( or partly online) is pretty high and yes if you want me to go to school with you on the first day I will. While she is in class I can visit some of my old profs. Pending the schools COVID instructions of course.

But yeah Louis I will send him your congrats and come to find out he tested and passed all his AP classes which awarded him 15 hours of college credit before he attends college. He is so far ahead of the game I swear he's not my son. So, he gets all kinds of reprieves from me just for that.

Toddy,

I too agree with you about testing. Right now under the city mandates you can't get tested unless you have symptoms. Its madness and because of that he IS sweating bullets. This one hit home for him and us too and though things are calm right now, the waiting game is the worse thing ever to see if he exhibits any symptoms. The t-shirt lady and her family attended a wedding, have a few drinks and let their guard down. According to her a teenage niece/ cousin to her daughters made the rounds hugging her extended family and SHE was the one who had it thus infecting everyone she came in contact with. The t-shirt ladies family is devastated that their daughter, who has asthma by the way, got COVID. Its a mess.

John from Texas

 

[OzDigger]

The Testing requirements make little sense to me as the authorities must know by now that a lot of Infected people are Asymptomatic.

I had personal experience with these rules a few weeks ago. I was meeting up with a Local Council Crew that were heading out to replace some storm water drains and noticed a Mobile Covid19 testing station in the large car park out front of the Council depot. I had no reason to suspect I'd come in contact with the virus but as I had a slightly sore throat I thought I'd get tested just to be on the safe side. This would have been my second test, so the actual test wasn't an issue for me. I drove over to get in the line (two cars only) and the Nurse said I needed a Doctors Certificate to get tested. Well that was the end of my social conscious, try and do the right thing and the Government put up barriers.....again. I drove off to do the days work, possibly infecting others.....if I did actually have the virus which I very much doubt as I said.

That said, she did ask if I may have been exposed to an infected person, and if so she could have done the test. I guess they would have similar rules in Texas. If anyone has been exposed to someone with a positive test they would most likely test them even if they had no symptoms. You would hope so anyway.

 

[Desertkiwi]

The Testing requirements make little sense to me as the authorities must know by now that a lot of Infected people are Asymptomatic.

I had personal experience with these rules a few weeks ago. I was meeting up with a Local Council Crew that were heading out to replace some storm water drains and noticed a Mobile Covid19 testing station in the large car park out front of the Council depot. I had no reason to suspect I'd come in contact with the virus but as I had a slightly sore throat I thought I'd get tested just to be on the safe side. This would have been my second test, so the actual test wasn't an issue for me. I drove over to get in the line (two cars only) and the Nurse said I needed a Doctors Certificate to get tested. Well that was the end of my social conscious, try and do the right thing and the Government put up barriers.....again. I drove off to do the days work, possibly infecting others.....if I did actually have the virus which I very much doubt as I said.

That said, she did ask if I may have been exposed to an infected person, and if so she could have done the test. I guess they would have similar rules in Texas. If anyone has been exposed to someone with a positive test they would most likely test them even if they had no symptoms. You would hope so anyway.

Its ironic isn't it when many of those who have tested positive for Covid have no obvious symptoms at all.

Ex-pat Kiwis who have returned to NZ since late March are required by law to sit out their 14x isolation in a dedicated hotel guarded by police and the military. All have to take a covid test in the first 3x days on arrival and while most test negative, those that test positive are moved to a Covid hotel to sit out their enforced 14x days isolation.

Before anyone can be released from their isolation in the hotels everyone must undergo a further Covid test at 12 days and only gets released when this test comes back negative.

Interestingly enough there have been a few who tested negative on their 3 day test, but positive after their 12x day test.

Anyone refusing to get tested has a mandatary stay in isolation for 28x days.

At the moment all accommodation is funded by the Government aka the tax payer.

 

[OzDigger]

Its ironic isn't it when many of those who have tested positive for Covid have no obvious symptoms at all.

Ex-pat Kiwis who have returned to NZ since late March are required by law to sit out their 14x isolation in a dedicated hotel guarded by police and the military. All have to take a covid test in the first 3x days on arrival and while most test negative, those that test positive are moved to a Covid hotel to sit out their enforced 14x days isolation.

Before anyone can be released from their isolation in the hotels everyone must undergo a further Covid test at 12 days and only gets released when this test comes back negative.

Interestingly enough there have been a few who tested negative on their 3 day test, but positive after their 12x day test.

Anyone refusing to get tested has a mandatary stay in isolation for 28x days.

At the moment all accommodation is funded by the Government aka the tax payer.

Todd
They have introduced similar measures here as a number of people wouldn't do what they were supposed to.

 

[bradleyl30]

I just read about the Houston family that lost Father, Mother and youngest brother in 2 weeks. First test for father was negative and sent him home. 2 weeks later three were dead. They were older but still rough to have all that loss at once.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I just read about the Houston family that lost Father, Mother and youngest brother in 2 weeks. First test for father was negative and sent him home. 2 weeks later three were dead. They were older but still rough to have all that loss at once.

That's tragic.

 

[hotel3alpha]

I just read about the Houston family that lost Father, Mother and youngest brother in 2 weeks. First test for father was negative and sent him home. 2 weeks later three were dead. They were older but still rough to have all that loss at once.

Jimmeny Christmas I am going to have to read that story. Good god, in two weeks? This virus is cold blooded...a darkness man that kills at a will and theres a push to send our kids to school? Honestly, I don't think the kiddos will be going back to school until after Christmas break. I just can't see it. My grandkids ( 10 and 11) are frightened to go to back to school and so far here in our district there is a three week delay for them actually entering the school as the first three weeks will be online. And yes, I will be their substitute teacher while my eldest runs our store.

In addition to their elementary school work they will study the Art of War by Sun Tzu and read Musashi along with memorizing all the Presidents. That will be their extra credit.

John from Texas

 

[bradleyl30]

Jimmeny Christmas I am going to have to read that story. Good god, in two weeks? This virus is cold blooded...a darkness man that kills at a will and theres a push to send our kids to school? Honestly, I don't think the kiddos will be going back to school until after Christmas break. I just can't see it. My grandkids ( 10 and 11) are frightened to go to back to school and so far here in our district there is a three week delay for them actually entering the school as the first three weeks will be online. And yes, I will be their substitute teacher while my eldest runs our store.

In addition to their elementary school work they will study the Art of War by Sun Tzu and read Musashi along with memorizing all the Presidents. That will be their extra credit.

John from Texas

A very detailed and rigorous study out of South Korea states that kids 10 and up are just as infectious as adults. Younger than 10 seem less so, but still spread it. The problem is that under 10 have so few symptoms it’s really hard to know how much they have actually been part of outbreaks. They might actually be a huge part of it because you never know they have it.

 

[tdubel]

Personal opinion on schools/colleges, etc is they are all incompetent it seems in some ways. They have had enough time to plan and work out safe schedules, they have not due to opposition from teachers unions, opposition from within and IMO general incompetence. I am speaking in direct correlation currently to Maryland and I can speak to specifics. One, as I have said before I come from a family of educators who are still very much alive and involved and they are disgusted in the manner this has been handled thus far. Two, I currently have a rising Junior in High School who is going through this. Long story short, it is maddening and frustrating. I want him to be safe first and foremost, but they can accomplish that and have chosen not to. Unfortunately and this OF COURSE does not go for all teachers, BUT there is a contingent that is perfectly happy to sit at home and have canned worthless lessons delivered via a worthless online platform. They are teaching to the lowest common denominator and it is downright sad. I have a kid who will be in 6 AP classes, athletics, student government and sports broadcasting who is now basically 'sidelined" by lack of intelligence, lack of ingenuity and lack of effort. The leadership is disgraceful and they are more concerned about the name of a High School - "Indians" then they are of kid's educations.

Again, I don't presume to speak for education systems as a whole, but I am speaking directly about the one I am in right now. The community is pissed off and right now we are powerless to do anything about it. There were plenty of alternative plans that are supported by the entire Community (they previously did a poll) and basically threw it out the window and are ignoring the parents, kids and virtually anyone else. ONLINE learning came in dead last, yet it appears they are going to default to it. To make it worse, for the end of the year (last year) , they made it Pass/Fail. ***? Is life a Pass/Fail situation?

I have said this before and I will say it again as I am becoming more and more convinced - we are creating generations of idiots through our education systems. When you allow the lowest common denominator to become the norm, you are stunting creativity, intelligence and entrepreneurial advances, you are creating unproductive drones.

If I sound irritated, I am.

TD

 

[marco55]

That's what certain groups want Tom so the can be able to control them.
Mark

 

[Go for Broke]

John from Texas, If you like Musashi, listen to Jocko Podcast episode #80 (Book of Five Rings) and #100 Musashi novel, co hosted with Tim Ferris. I listen to Jocko on Spotify, but he's also on UTube. Very entertaining. If you do listen, let me know what you think. After a big battle, Musashi lay wounded on the battlefield and felt like a dead leave blowing in the wind.

 

[nysoldiers]

Personal opinion on schools/colleges, etc is they are all incompetent it seems in some ways. They have had enough time to plan and work out safe schedules, they have not due to opposition from teachers unions, opposition from within and IMO general incompetence. I am speaking in direct correlation currently to Maryland and I can speak to specifics. One, as I have said before I come from a family of educators who are still very much alive and involved and they are disgusted in the manner this has been handled thus far. Two, I currently have a rising Junior in High School who is going through this. Long story short, it is maddening and frustrating. I want him to be safe first and foremost, but they can accomplish that and have chosen not to. Unfortunately and this OF COURSE does not go for all teachers, BUT there is a contingent that is perfectly happy to sit at home and have canned worthless lessons delivered via a worthless online platform. They are teaching to the lowest common denominator and it is downright sad. I have a kid who will be in 6 AP classes, athletics, student government and sports broadcasting who is now basically 'sidelined" by lack of intelligence, lack of ingenuity and lack of effort. The leadership is disgraceful and they are more concerned about the name of a High School - "Indians" then they are of kid's educations.

Again, I don't presume to speak for education systems as a whole, but I am speaking directly about the one I am in right now. The community is pissed off and right now we are powerless to do anything about it. There were plenty of alternative plans that are supported by the entire Community (they previously did a poll) and basically threw it out the window and are ignoring the parents, kids and virtually anyone else. ONLINE learning came in dead last, yet it appears they are going to default to it. To make it worse, for the end of the year (last year) , they made it Pass/Fail. ***? Is life a Pass/Fail situation?

I have said this before and I will say it again as I am becoming more and more convinced - we are creating generations of idiots through our education systems. When you allow the lowest common denominator to become the norm, you are stunting creativity, intelligence and entrepreneurial advances, you are creating unproductive drones.

If I sound irritated, I am.




TD

This is a very challenging situation with a lot of emotions and concerns. Frankly instead of worrying about opening bars, restaurants
and sporting event we should have prioritized opening schools. What is needed is a national/federal response. Schools and local
communities just don't have the resources and expertise to go it alone.

To make matters even more complex we now know that children ages ten and above are just as contagious as adults when asymptomatic.
In addition teenagers as a group are the most likely to ignore health instructions like wearing masks, social distancing and personal
hygiene. Most of us went through that period of "its never going to happen to me" syndrome when we were teenagers.
Many teachers are in that vulnerable group of 50+ with underlying medical issues. They have to worry about their students, their own
health and infecting their families.

As far as online classes my third grade grandson went through Zoom learning for four months and his parents thought it was a waste. And students
from economically challenged communities often don't have access to computers and their parents are both working or absent so there is
litte supervision for home schooling. What does a working parent do with their kids staying at home?
My grandson's school is proposing two days a week in-school learning and the rest vial Zoom. This way they can cut attendance by half
and have more effective social distancing. Not perfect but maybe a compromise.

The best solution would be to have mandatory daily testing with immediate results. There are tests out there that can do this but
they are not 100% accurate, expensive and in small quantities. The federal government could put large resources into this and recruit
private industry to build up units quickly. Its not a quick fix however and time is running out.
This would solve our general virus spread problem as well.


Another solution would be to build cubicles in each classroom. In my company sales office we had a large "bullpen" of over 100 employees
sitting in these cubicles.....waist high fabric walls with glass or plexiglass extension that make the cubicle at least six feet high. You can
hear and see through them but no body particles from speech, coughing or sneezing could get through, The kids could eat lunch in their
cubicle and only get up for the restrooms which would need to be cleaned often and have hand sanitizers readily available.
Again this would be very expensive and require a federal intervention to both finance and implement.

I am sure there are other ideas out there, all with some risk. I just don't think local communities and schools can do this on their own.

 

[jazzeum]

This is a very challenging situation with a lot of emotions and concerns. Frankly instead of worrying about opening bars, restaurants
and sporting event we should have prioritized opening schools. What is needed is a national/federal response. Schools and local
communities just don't have the resources and expertise to go it alone.

To make matters even more complex we now know that children ages ten and above are just as contagious as adults when asymptomatic.
In addition teenagers as a group are the most likely to ignore health instructions like wearing masks, social distancing and personal
hygiene. Most of us went through that period of "its never going to happen to me" syndrome when we were teenagers.
Many teachers are in that vulnerable group of 50+ with underlying medical issues. They have to worry about their students, their own
health and infecting their families.

As far as online classes my third grade grandson went through Zoom learning for four months and his parents thought it was a waste. And students
from economically challenged communities often don't have access to computers and their parents are both working or absent so there is
litte supervision for home schooling. What does a working parent do with their kids staying at home?
My grandson's school is proposing two days a week in-school learning and the rest vial Zoom. This way they can cut attendance by half
and have more effective social distancing. Not perfect but maybe a compromise.

The best solution would be to have mandatory daily testing with immediate results. There are tests out there that can do this but
they are not 100% accurate, expensive and in small quantities. The federal government could put large resources into this and recruit
private industry to build up units quickly. Its not a quick fix however and time is running out.
This would solve our general virus spread problem as well.


Another solution would be to build cubicles in each classroom. In my company sales office we had a large "bullpen" of over 100 employees
sitting in these cubicles.....waist high fabric walls with glass or plexiglass extension that make the cubicle at least six feet high. You can
hear and see through them but no body particles from speech, coughing or sneezing could get through, The kids could eat lunch in their
cubicle and only get up for the restrooms which would need to be cleaned often and have hand sanitizers readily available.
Again this would be very expensive and require a federal intervention to both finance and implement.

I am sure there are other ideas out there, all with some risk. I just don't think local communities and schools can do this on their own.

Ahh, federal intervention. Well, there’s the rub.