COVID the 3rd (2 Viewers)

[nysoldiers]

Glad we still have a sense of humor....
By the way George I bought several cases of Listerine and selling them on Ebay......buy one and get a toy soldier. but a dozen and get a photo of George!!!!!

 

[Warrior]

Glad we still have a sense of humor....
By the way George I bought several cases of Listerine and selling them on Ebay......buy one and get a toy soldier. but a dozen and get a photo of George!!!!!

And with the photo comes a set of darts along with a board to pin it to.................:wink2:

 

[tdubel]

Unless it’s a house of ill repute :wink2:

Post of the year nomination!

TD

 

[Combat]

Interesting times. Prisoners are apparently considered unemployed and eligible for stimulus money to the tune of hundreds of millions:

In a clear victory for prisoners and their families, a federal judge has ordered the U.S. Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to make stimulus payments previously denied to people in prison and jail.

The court's order noted that payments made on or around April 10th of 2020 showed that "84,861 payments totaling approximately $100 million (were made) to incarcerated persons. The court noted that the IRS on its own initiative, and without proper authority, said on its website on May 6 that “individuals who received a direct deposit payment in error should repay the advance refund by submitting a personal check or money order to the IRS.” That is no longer necessary.

 

[joesgis]

Interesting times. Prisoners are apparently considered unemployed and eligible for stimulus money to the tune of hundreds of millions:

In a clear victory for prisoners and their families, a federal judge has ordered the U.S. Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to make stimulus payments previously denied to people in prison and jail.

The court's order noted that payments made on or around April 10th of 2020 showed that "84,861 payments totaling approximately $100 million (were made) to incarcerated persons. The court noted that the IRS on its own initiative, and without proper authority, said on its website on May 6 that “individuals who received a direct deposit payment in error should repay the advance refund by submitting a personal check or money order to the IRS.” That is no longer necessary.

We're living in "the upside down".

Only in America.

Joe

 

[mikemiller1955]

say it ain't so...

that's ridiculous...
they break the law...
we pay for their trial..
house them...
feed them...
provide their health care...

and now reward them with unemployment benefits while incarcerated for the crimes against society they committed...

fricking unreal!

 

[marco55]

This country is *** backwards anymore.We have a bunch of fools running things.
Mark

 

[ivanmoe]

We have a bunch of fools running things.

And spiteful fools at that.

-Moe

 

[nysoldiers]

Its like giving huge tax breaks and loopholes to giant corporations who are making tons of money.
And we in the middle get screwed!

 

[tdubel]

Its like giving huge tax breaks and loopholes to giant corporations who are making tons of money.
And we in the middle get screwed!

Rich and everyone, that is not entirely a true statement. ( I am not singling you out), but I still see taxes for a living and it is a lot more complicated than that. Just as an example and I am talking about Corporations, not the executives who run them, but the higher the Corporate tax rate is, the more pressure you put on employee wages, benefits, End cost of goods (we as a consumer pay more), etc. Remember, Corporations and especially Public traded ones live and die by their stock price which is pressured by shareholders and consumers and expenses greatly effect it. The best example I always give is if you look historically when the Corp tax rate is low - you see larger employee wage increases, when it is high, you see low employee raises. Corporations are like Casinos (the House), they are going to always make the choice to stay in business, if you have high taxes and margins are the same - 2 choices - cut expenses or raise prices. Either way, the employee or consumer loses which is usually one in the same.

Point is there is a trickle down effect and it basically means more money out of consumer pockets and the largest consumers are the Middle Class. The Corporations are always going to continue to make money, but when taxes are less, everyone gets more and keeps more.

I am a Tax CPA, so I am tackling this question in an unbiased response. There is a terrific web site for the Tax Foundation, https://taxfoundation.org/ They are considered an unbiased gold standard in my profession as they are fact based discussions on all tax plans, etc. Additionally, each year they put out the annual State Tax Report which compares the cost of tax living in all 50 States (it is a great retirement destination tool!).

I highly recommend everyone do research on your taxes and the Tax Foundation is a great place to start.

That said, there is Zero reason why incarcerated individuals should collect $200 and pass Go, Zero reason.

Anyhow, one last point, every time Congress screws around with the Tax Code whether they call it a tax cut or hike, I can guarantee you the Middle Class are paying for it. It is a sad circle.

TD

 

[Combat]

I keep imagining the Unabomber getting his stimulus check. He finally gets to eat his cake and have it too. I wonder if he will object to electronic deposit though.

 

[ivanmoe]

Back to Covid 19 and today's data for the pandemic:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I won't quote any specific number, because the figures could well change before any of our readers review them.

Should you bravely choose to delve into the data, keep in mind that averages are more meaningful than figures for a particular day.

Data collection for some countries on some days appears to be lacking.

For instance, data collection for some European countries seems to suffer on weekends.

On the other hand, accurate counts for the USA tend to be short on Mondays, only to "catch up" later in the week.

Again, however, in the broader scheme of things, the averages are more useful for the purpose of accurate analysis.

The tables allow visitors to view data for "today," "yesterday" and "two days ago."

If you're a numbers kind of person, a trip to the site can be quite revealing.

-Moe

 

[mikemiller1955]

[h=1]Federal Judge Rules Prisoners Eligible for $1,200 Stimulus Checks; Must Apply by October 30[/h]Loaded on OCT. 6, 2020 by Derek GilnaFiled under: Seizure of Prisoner Funds, Tax Law. Locations: California, North Carolina.

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by Derek Gilna
In a clear victory for prisoners and their families, a federal judge has ordered the U.S. Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to make stimulus payments previously denied to people in prison and jail. Affected individuals must apply no later than October 30, 2020 for non-tax filers.
The September 24, 2020 order by Phyllis J. Hamilton, United States District Judge from the 9th Circuit, certified a nationwide class action of incarcerated individuals denied federal stimulus checks and issued a preliminary injunction requiring the IRS and Treasury to stop blocking such payments and expedite previously denied payments.
Although many federal and state statutes block current prisoners from enjoying certain government benefits, the language of the CARES Act, passed by congress after the COVID-19 pandemic erupted, does not.
The court's order noted that payments made on or around April 10th of 2020 showed that "84,861 payments totaling approximately $100 million (were made) to incarcerated persons." The court noted that the IRS on its own initiative, and without proper authority, said on its website on May 6 that “individuals who received a direct deposit payment in error should repay the advance refund by submitting a personal check or money order to the IRS.” That is no longer necessary. Furthermore, prisoners who did not previously file a claim are now eligible to do so. Eligible individuals can receive up to $1,200 per person, or $2,400 for married couples filing jointly. Only individuals earning less than $75,000 or $112,500 for heads of households or $150,000 for married couples filing jointly, are eligible.
The court further noted that Congress did not specifically exclude prisoners from receiving a stimulus payment, although it had the opportunity to do so. It said that the IRS administrative action blocking the payments did not comply with the language or requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act, by giving the public or affected individuals proper "notice and comment," rendering the agency action unenforceable.
The court noted that the members of the class were likely to prevail at trial.
The ruling said: “Within 30 days, defendants shall reconsider advance refund payments to those who are entitled to such payment based on information available in the IRS’s records (i.e., 2018 or 2019 tax returns), but from whom benefits have thus far been withheld, intercepted, or returned on the sole basis of their incarcerated status. Within 30 days, defendants shall reconsider any claim filed through the “non-filer” online portal or otherwise that was previously denied solely on the basis of the claimant’s incarcerated status...Within 45 days, defendants shall file a declaration confirming these steps have been implemented, including data regarding the number and amount of benefits that have been disbursed."
The national prisoner class is represented by the law firm of Lieff Cabraser. For specific information on how prisoners can get their stimulus check, visit this website: https://www.lieffcabraser.com/cares-act-relief/
See: Scholl v. Mnuchin, Case No. 20-cv-05309-PJH (N.D. Cal. Sep. 24, 2020).
Read the ruling here: Scholl v. Mnuchin, Case No. 20-cv-05309-PJH (N.D. Cal. Sep. 24, 2020)
As a digital subscriber to Prison Legal News, you can access full text and downloads for this and other premium content.

 

[Panzer ace]

I am not going to try and hijack this thread, but giving COVID stimulus checks to convicted felons etc. is just another example of “a society should be judged not by how it treats its citizens but how it treats its criminals” gone too far.

Close to 10% of Americans do not have health insurance or even the ability to get simple medications, chief among them Type 1 diabetics. Yet a US prison inmate gets more health care visits and attention than millions of hard working Americans.

For example, we decry the moment an incarcerated person dies due to lack of insulin while we ignore the deaths of hundreds of law abiding citizens who die of the same thing every day.

That is pathetic.

 

[nysoldiers]

Rich and everyone, that is not entirely a true statement. ( I am not singling you out), but I still see taxes for a living and it is a lot more complicated than that. Just as an example and I am talking about Corporations, not the executives who run them, but the higher the Corporate tax rate is, the more pressure you put on employee wages, benefits, End cost of goods (we as a consumer pay more), etc. Remember, Corporations and especially Public traded ones live and die by their stock price which is pressured by shareholders and consumers and expenses greatly effect it. The best example I always give is if you look historically when the Corp tax rate is low - you see larger employee wage increases, when it is high, you see low employee raises. Corporations are like Casinos (the House), they are going to always make the choice to stay in business, if you have high taxes and margins are the same - 2 choices - cut expenses or raise prices. Either way, the employee or consumer loses which is usually one in the same.

Point is there is a trickle down effect and it basically means more money out of consumer pockets and the largest consumers are the Middle Class. The Corporations are always going to continue to make money, but when taxes are less, everyone gets more and keeps more.

I am a Tax CPA, so I am tackling this question in an unbiased response. There is a terrific web site for the Tax Foundation, https://taxfoundation.org/ They are considered an unbiased gold standard in my profession as they are fact based discussions on all tax plans, etc. Additionally, each year they put out the annual State Tax Report which compares the cost of tax living in all 50 States (it is a great retirement destination tool!).

I highly recommend everyone do research on your taxes and the Tax Foundation is a great place to start.

That said, there is Zero reason why incarcerated individuals should collect $200 and pass Go, Zero reason.

Anyhow, one last point, every time Congress screws around with the Tax Code whether they call it a tax cut or hike, I can guarantee you the Middle Class are paying for it. It is a sad circle.

TD

Thanks Tom,
Having founded a company that was public (NASDAQ) for almost 30 years I know the pressure to perform for shareholders. I was talking more about subsidies through tax breaks for the energy sector, as an example, of corporate welfare. I understand the original motive was to support our energy industry to gain energy independence but as these companies grew and reaped huge profits the subsidies still continued. I was for tax cuts, especially corporate tax cuts, but thought 14% was excessive and unnecessary as I knew it would just add to our federal deficit, which it did. My company would have been thrilled with 7 or 8% reductions.
Anyway this is a discussion for economics.
I do think giving felons, specifically, this money is misguided but perhaps their families should not suffer along with them if thats the case.

 

[tdubel]

Thanks Tom,
Having founded a company that was public (NASDAQ) for almost 30 years I know the pressure to perform for shareholders. I was talking more about subsidies through tax breaks for the energy sector, as an example, of corporate welfare. I understand the original motive was to support our energy industry to gain energy independence but as these companies grew and reaped huge profits the subsidies still continued. I was for tax cuts, especially corporate tax cuts, but thought 14% was excessive and unnecessary as I knew it would just add to our federal deficit, which it did. My company would have been thrilled with 7 or 8% reductions.
Anyway this is a discussion for economics.
I do think giving felons, specifically, this money is misguided but perhaps their families should not suffer along with them if thats the case.

Rich,
I hear you, an economy is a cycle, somewhere one pays while another saves! That said, the energy subsidies are a whole other ball of wax. I actually over the last 3 years have seen a deluge of solar/wind/clean energy projects, they are rolling. The problem is even though costs have come down and they are better capitalized, they still do not pencil out. Coal fired is still much and in some cases half the cost to the final consumer. Green energy is just not affordable to the average person nor to the debt/equity/venture caps trying to finance it. The property tax alone is a killer (state/local). In some places a field of solar panels corresponds to a $2M annual tax bill, sometimes a $5M annual tax bill - Ginormous!. But not feasible or sustainable. The Federal ITC credit is only 30% and it is only available against federal income tax, SO, if you never get the project out of the ground in order to generate net income taxable income, you never get the credit. Vicious cycle. Every time I read a statement about were are going to be Zero Carbon by DATE, I laugh. Can't happen until it is affordable. Right now, coal, fracking, etc produces cheaper, reliable and efficient energy to the end user. I don't have an opinion on what is better or right or wrong, having represented Companies on all sides, it is what it is.

Bottom line as I said about any "taxes" or "fees", they will always somehow find their way to the end user which in our Country is the predominant Middle Class!

TD

 

[nysoldiers]

Rich,
I hear you, an economy is a cycle, somewhere one pays while another saves! That said, the energy subsidies are a whole other ball of wax. I actually over the last 3 years have seen a deluge of solar/wind/clean energy projects, they are rolling. The problem is even though costs have come down and they are better capitalized, they still do not pencil out. Coal fired is still much and in some cases half the cost to the final consumer. Green energy is just not affordable to the average person nor to the debt/equity/venture caps trying to finance it. The property tax alone is a killer (state/local). In some places a field of solar panels corresponds to a $2M annual tax bill, sometimes a $5M annual tax bill - Ginormous!. But not feasible or sustainable. The Federal ITC credit is only 30% and it is only available against federal income tax, SO, if you never get the project out of the ground in order to generate net income taxable income, you never get the credit. Vicious cycle. Every time I read a statement about were are going to be Zero Carbon by DATE, I laugh. Can't happen until it is affordable. Right now, coal, fracking, etc produces cheaper, reliable and efficient energy to the end user. I don't have an opinion on what is better or right or wrong, having represented Companies on all sides, it is what it is.

Bottom line as I said about any "taxes" or "fees", they will always somehow find their way to the end user which in our Country is the predominant Middle Class!

TD

I use solar heat as my two grown children do in their homes and we save thousands of dollars a year over oil. Global warming as an existential threat is another matter not to discuss here.

I agree that the Middle Class gets screwed and here are some numbers that illustrate the dilemma with our brand of Capitalism.....and I am a "conscientious capitalist!".
According to the Federal Reserve in 2019 the top one percent owned 35 trillion in wealth while the middle class owned 36.9 trillion. This year, mostly due to the Virus, the top one percent will own more wealth than the entire middle class.
A lot of this is due to the stock market and the high unemployment but we have the widest gap in wealth and income of any industrialized country. I am wondering if tax reform could help even this out to some degree? Historically this is the
stuff of revolutions!
I lecture on corporate responsibility and fairness and economists get pretty agitated on this, both sides.
Another solution is to have more independent and responsible boards of directors.
Again not the place for this discussion but this virus magnifies the difference in classes.

 

[Combat]

I use solar heat as my two grown children do in their homes and we save thousands of dollars a year over oil. Global warming as an existential threat is another matter not to discuss here.

I agree that the Middle Class gets screwed and here are some numbers that illustrate the dilemma with our brand of Capitalism.....and I am a "conscientious capitalist!".
According to the Federal Reserve in 2019 the top one percent owned 35 trillion in wealth while the middle class owned 36.9 trillion. This year, mostly due to the Virus, the top one percent will own more wealth than the entire middle class.
A lot of this is due to the stock market and the high unemployment but we have the widest gap in wealth and income of any industrialized country. I am wondering if tax reform could help even this out to some degree? Historically this is the
stuff of revolutions!
I lecture on corporate responsibility and fairness and economists get pretty agitated on this, both sides.
Another solution is to have more independent and responsible boards of directors.
Again not the place for this discussion but this virus magnifies the difference in classes.

It takes so much money for any politician to get elected that little change can come from government. They are bound by their paymasters. That applies to both political parties. The amount of money being thrown at this presidential election is mind boggling. Anyone on the receiving end of those donations has no discretion to exercise any independent judgment. That goes down to the senate, house, and even many local elections. Only a total disaster that has direct and immediate consequences on their constituents can break that stranglehold. And then only briefly. There is no proactive agenda driven solely by the facts or what might be deemed the right thing to do in our political system. Only advocacy to advance the monied interests. That isn't always bad in my opinion but it practically eliminates the ability of politicians to exercise any independent judgment.

 

[tdubel]

I use solar heat as my two grown children do in their homes and we save thousands of dollars a year over oil. Global warming as an existential threat is another matter not to discuss here.

I agree that the Middle Class gets screwed and here are some numbers that illustrate the dilemma with our brand of Capitalism.....and I am a "conscientious capitalist!".
According to the Federal Reserve in 2019 the top one percent owned 35 trillion in wealth while the middle class owned 36.9 trillion. This year, mostly due to the Virus, the top one percent will own more wealth than the entire middle class.
A lot of this is due to the stock market and the high unemployment but we have the widest gap in wealth and income of any industrialized country. I am wondering if tax reform could help even this out to some degree? Historically this is the
stuff of revolutions!
I lecture on corporate responsibility and fairness and economists get pretty agitated on this, both sides.
Another solution is to have more independent and responsible boards of directors.
Again not the place for this discussion but this virus magnifies the difference in classes.

Rich, you are lucky if you have found a solar solution that actually saves you in the long run. Here in Maryland, its a non starter thus far. Additionally, if you choose "green" for your distribution, it is about 1.75 times more than traditional.

IMO - As for wealth, I just don't worry about it, as most people who are wealthy worked their tail off to obtain said wealth. Can't begrudge hard work and there is not a requirement to give it back. However there is a lot of wealthy people who do set up lots of give backs that benefit the masses. But there is going to be a gap, always will be and I can't begrudge someone who goes out and absolutely makes it, they deserve it at that point and I don't think the Government should step into and try and redistribute it. I have never understood an inheritance or estate tax - honestly , we all pay multiple taxes on each penny we earn (income), we pay again annually to live (property) and when we spend (sales tax). I believe that is enough!

TD

 

[tdubel]

It takes so much money for any politician to get elected that little change can come from government. They are bound by their paymasters. That applies to both political parties. The amount of money being thrown at this presidential election is mind boggling. Anyone on the receiving end of those donations has no discretion to exercise any independent judgment. That goes down to the senate, house, and even many local elections. Only a total disaster that has direct and immediate consequences on their constituents can break that stranglehold. And then only briefly. There is no proactive agenda driven solely by the facts or what might be deemed the right thing to do in our political system. Only advocacy to advance the monied interests. That isn't always bad in my opinion but it practically eliminates the ability of politicians to exercise any independent judgment.

You are correct on all fronts and I share the same viewpoint. It has always boggled my mind why someone would go broke to get elected for such a short term gain. However, when you realize that they earn a pension for life, healthcare for life and most of them come out much better off financially than when they were elected, it makes sense. It burns me to no end, but I get it. The reason it burns me is that I am of the belief that being elected, you are being elected to serve, it is a privilege to serve, not a Career!

TD