COVID the 3rd (2 Viewers)

[nysoldiers]

+ 1

Absolutely inexcusable that they did not warn the rest of the world/ring the alarm bell vs downplaying it and making it sound like it was a big nothingburger.


80,000 infected in China; 10,000 deaths....................that's what they reported.

Are you ****ting me with that nonsense?

NINE million Americans infected, over 200,000 deaths.

And counting.

It was once thought if you get it, you're immune from it going forward; now they are saying a 4 month window and you can get reinfected.

The only thing that is going to save us is a vaccine.

Period.

I haven't gotten together with my friends since the Super Bowl, haven't seen my two brothers and two sisters since roughly the same time frame.

Haven't dined out or gone anywhere except the supermarket, gas station, drug store, post office, barber, doctor/dentist for exams for 8 months.

Wonderful.

No Thanksgiving, Christmas or NYE gatherings either; can you imagine how the numbers are going to spike once we get past the holidays and people have had enough and decide to have holiday family gatherings..........................

Just an unmitigated disaster on so many levels I've lost count.

A rational man.....if more people acted even close to what you do we would be well on our way to recovery and then have a vaccination.
I go out once and a while for dinner when there is an outdoor space and distancing. My wife goes food shopping at places that limit customers
at one time, we have had some friends over for outdoor drinks and barbecue.
My children mostly work from home and go into their offices once in a while with limited occupancy and masks.
My grandchildren have some outdoor activities wearing masks.
We don't have to lock down completely, just be smart about your activities.

 

[marco55]

My grandparents survived WWI,Spanish flu,Great depression and WWII from 1917-45.We will survive this.I don't think the EU acted as one as many people think as I was reading about Belgium which is having the most problems and their leaders said part of the problem was that each country in the EU did things differently.Belgium has divisions too in their own country between the Dutch speaking and French speakers and the regions there have different rules.
Mark

 

[Desertkiwi]

With the likes of WHO and medical experts around the globe constantly contradicting themselves, its no wonder the response has been so varied from country to country.

Meanwhile the world keeps spinning, the sun is shining and life goes on.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Covid has been a pain in the (body part of choice). Having to work from home while my kids are going to video-school from home, and I am tasked with making sure they are paying attention, that the on-line video classroom is functioning correctly, and thus acting as tutor/teacher/technological repairman while practicing law sucks.

However, with a few concessions to safety, my home and business life have gone on. I wear masks whenever I go out. I socially distance. I wash my hands and disinfect with purel every time I get into or out of my car, or a store or whatever. I don't go to my office, work from home, and video conference (I am fortunate enough that in my profession, this has become common practice since Covid hit). If I go to a restaurant, I eat at an outside table, make sure there is enough space between my table and the next table, and purel like crazy once I get back in my car. If I do participate in a social event, it is outside, in small numbers (10 or less people) with masks and social distancing. This is not rocket science. Its common sense. If you follow simple common sense social distancing rules, and go on with life, this doesn't have to be the end of the world. Plus, treatments are getting more effective, and hopefully an effective vaccine will be widely available within the next six to 12 months.

However, I agree with George that with the holidays coming, following the common sense precautions is going to become more difficult, and the present spike in cases could get a lot worse. Which is why, instead of complaining about common sense precautions and the inconvenience they are causing, we should all be strictly adhering to them now, in the hopes that when the holidays come, the present surge will be behind us. Frankly, we owe it to ourselves, our families, and the rest of society to do everything we can to retard the spread of Covid, keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed (as they are in some communities like El Paso, Texas), and keep as many people alive as we can. While I understand people die everyday from all sorts of causes, it makes no sense to me to conceed that people are going to die anyway, and not to fight whatever if causing people to die sooner. Covid is killing people. Yeah, everybody is going to die eventually, but if Covid kills someone you love a year, or two years, or ten years before they might otherwise have died, that is reason enough for me to inconvenience myself to try to fight it. Just my two cents. Stay safe and healthy!

 

[Warrior]

Covid has been a pain in the (body part of choice). Having to work from home while my kids are going to video-school from home, and I am tasked with making sure they are paying attention, that the on-line video classroom is functioning correctly, and thus acting as tutor/teacher/technological repairman while practicing law sucks.

However, with a few concessions to safety, my home and business life have gone on. I wear masks whenever I go out. I socially distance. I wash my hands and disinfect with purel every time I get into or out of my car, or a store or whatever. I don't go to my office, work from home, and video conference (I am fortunate enough that in my profession, this has become common practice since Covid hit). If I go to a restaurant, I eat at an outside table, make sure there is enough space between my table and the next table, and purel like crazy once I get back in my car. If I do participate in a social event, it is outside, in small numbers (10 or less people) with masks and social distancing. This is not rocket science. Its common sense. If you follow simple common sense social distancing rules, and go on with life, this doesn't have to be the end of the world. Plus, treatments are getting more effective, and hopefully an effective vaccine will be widely available within the next six to 12 months.

However, I agree with George that with the holidays coming, following the common sense precautions is going to become more difficult, and the present spike in cases could get a lot worse. Which is why, instead of complaining about common sense precautions and the inconvenience they are causing, we should all be strictly adhering to them now, in the hopes that when the holidays come, the present surge will be behind us. Frankly, we owe it to ourselves, our families, and the rest of society to do everything we can to retard the spread of Covid, keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed (as they are in some communities like El Paso, Texas), and keep as many people alive as we can. While I understand people die everyday from all sorts of causes, it makes no sense to me to conceed that people are going to die anyway, and not to fight whatever if causing people to die sooner. Covid is killing people. Yeah, everybody is going to die eventually, but if Covid kills someone you love a year, or two years, or ten years before they might otherwise have died, that is reason enough for me to inconvenience myself to try to fight it. Just my two cents. Stay safe and healthy!

In short, it's called sacrificing for the greater good.

Sure, I'd love to hang out with my friends and enjoy some good food and adult beverages, sure I'd love to go out to dinner at my favorite restaurant, but I choose not to in order to protect myself and those around me.

My girlfriend has asthma, my mother is 88 years old and my oldest sister is the middle of the fight of her life as she kicks cancers ***; I'd love to socialize with my girlfriend, see my Mother and sister on regular basis...........................but in short, I don't want to put any of their lives at risk.

I talked to Matt from Hobby Bunker today (we talk quite a bit, which I am sure comes as a shock to some of you as afterall, we're "competitors" in the toy soldier business; nope, I've known Matt since he was in high school and used to come by his Dad Bill Murphy's store Excalibur Hobbies where I used to work, Matt is a friend FIRST, competitor a distant second)......................he and I both agree; on a personal level, if either one of us got COVID, then what, we're both self employed, what do we do, shut our businesses down for two week while we quarantine? Nope, not an option.

There will be plenty of BBQ's, football Sundays, Holiday gatherings and dinners at restaurants in the future; for now, the past 8 months and if necessary, the next year, sacrifices have to be made.

That's just the way it is.

 

[jazzeum]

Sacrificing for the greater good or realizing that what one person does may affect another person seems in short supply these days. Civic responsibility seems to have gone by the wayside. When I first learned in grade school what might called “civics” today, civic responsibility was the backbone of what our teacher imparted. It’s our motto — E Pluribus Unum. We were many but we united to form one country. The many worked together as one. Yes, I know there are some problems with the concept but overall we worked together as one. That idea seems to have gone by the bye.

 

[tdubel]

Geography is very interesting in how and where the virus affects. For example in Maryland, I live in a semi populous zip code. We shop in a Wegmans (120,000 square feet Grocery), we shop at BJS (Warehouse club), we shop at Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy, etc. once they reopened. No issues, no large spikes, people generally 100% comply with masks and no problems. I feel safe when I go out to eat (At an outside venue only or a country club inside which is large space, high ceilings). No issue, and I generally feel safe. I do have to fly soon so that will be interesting and I am a little on the fence, but again, I figure, I will keep a distance and wear a mask along with my bottle of sanitizer. Should be fine.

So, if you go to a zip code in Montgomery County MD, same general populous, but more density, large number of cases.

Population density definitely changes the game of this virus. I would assume most States will look like that, but it is more incredible in Maryland b/c we have a smaller footprint than most to literally see 1000% difference from one zip code to the next.

Also, it is interesting in that is the virus exploding or is it simply a case where it doesn't have enemies yet of immunity and vaccine? I tend to believe the latter as that is the common sense answer but I have read the science and that part is very mixed opinion.

We (my family) will continue to do what has worked for us in the precautionary answer as it has allowed the most normalcy we can find. I have always been an educated risk taker and my approach to this virus at this stage falls into that category. You make your own luck by wise decisions. For example the reason I will do a toy soldier show this weekend is exactly that - I feel based on the venue and protocols in place, it will be no different than going to the grocery store, just the extended period of time. One piece of faith you have to have every time you go out is that people who knowingly don't feel well are staying home.

TD

 

[nysoldiers]

covid has been a pain in the (body part of choice). Having to work from home while my kids are going to video-school from home, and i am tasked with making sure they are paying attention, that the on-line video classroom is functioning correctly, and thus acting as tutor/teacher/technological repairman while practicing law sucks.

However, with a few concessions to safety, my home and business life have gone on. I wear masks whenever i go out. I socially distance. I wash my hands and disinfect with purel every time i get into or out of my car, or a store or whatever. I don't go to my office, work from home, and video conference (i am fortunate enough that in my profession, this has become common practice since covid hit). If i go to a restaurant, i eat at an outside table, make sure there is enough space between my table and the next table, and purel like crazy once i get back in my car. If i do participate in a social event, it is outside, in small numbers (10 or less people) with masks and social distancing. This is not rocket science. Its common sense. If you follow simple common sense social distancing rules, and go on with life, this doesn't have to be the end of the world. Plus, treatments are getting more effective, and hopefully an effective vaccine will be widely available within the next six to 12 months.

However, i agree with george that with the holidays coming, following the common sense precautions is going to become more difficult, and the present spike in cases could get a lot worse. Which is why, instead of complaining about common sense precautions and the inconvenience they are causing, we should all be strictly adhering to them now, in the hopes that when the holidays come, the present surge will be behind us. Frankly, we owe it to ourselves, our families, and the rest of society to do everything we can to retard the spread of covid, keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed (as they are in some communities like el paso, texas), and keep as many people alive as we can. While i understand people die everyday from all sorts of causes, it makes no sense to me to conceed that people are going to die anyway, and not to fight whatever if causing people to die sooner. Covid is killing people. Yeah, everybody is going to die eventually, but if covid kills someone you love a year, or two years, or ten years before they might otherwise have died, that is reason enough for me to inconvenience myself to try to fight it. Just my two cents. Stay safe and healthy!

amen!

 

[nysoldiers]

Reports coming out now from the two major vaccine developers, the NIH, CDC and AMA seem to be saying that widespread distribution of a vaccine will not happen until the second half of 2021. That is about 8 months from now. At the current rate we could lose another 200,000++ lives and countless others with health issues.
All I am saying is that at this point, without going back and blaming anyone for the virus, we have to follow the scientific consensus. As many on here have said we have to adjust our lives accordingly to not only protect our loved ones but our country in general (thanks Brad).

I dont promote locking down the whole country but I do think a national mandate to wear masks in public and avoid crowds is reasonable.

Last week I was shopping in a food market with my adult daughter. A young buck came into the store without a mask. An employee asked him to put on a mask and if he didn't have one they would provide it. The young man got agitated and refused and started cursing. The manage, who is a young man as well came over and tried to reason with him, offered to take a list and bring his food outside. Again the man refused and started threatening. My daughter tried to calm the man down by politely telling him there were old people in the store who could get sick. I wasn't happy that she interfered but I know she meant well. The young man started cursing at my daughter and coming towards us. At that Point I jumped in front of her and told the man that if he came any closer I would consider it an assault and would use my second degree blackbelt in karate on him. Thank goodness he backed down and within a few minutes the cops showed up and escorted him out. I do have a blackbelt but at my age I think my kick would just about reach his groin or knees and I would only get one shot! The point is that some people are looking at this as some kind of repression or conspiracy.
Just talk with the doctors and nurses in the hospitals and you will know how serious and dangerous this virus is.

 

[ivanmoe]

USA record today for the "New Cases" at just short of 86,000, time on the data tables was 7:07PM CDT, so it may well increase over the next few hours.

Europe's "curve" looks even worse, with 273K+.

France alone had 47K+.

Germany's Angela Merkel announced that her country's "contact tracing" strategy had collapsed.

Wow

-Moe

 

[nysoldiers]

Forgot to say that my daughter-in-law's grandfather who lives in Florida tested positive a few days ago and is now in the hospital with breathing problems.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Rich,

I don't think we can expect a vaccine to save the day until at least 6 months to a year after one is readily available, assuming that a vaccine is effective. That being said, it seems to me, just anecdotally and based on statistics, that treatments for the virus must be becoming more effective. While positive cases are skyrocketing, hospitalizations and deaths are not increasing proportionally. This leads me to believe that medical science is on an effective learning curve with regard to treating the virus. I know its not even apples to oranges (as George likes to say, its apples to hand-grenades), but, in a sense, isn't this a much quicker version of what happened with HIV? In the beginning, getting diagnosed with HIV was a death sentence, and everyone was hoping for a vaccine or cure. Then, over time, medical science developed such effective treatments, that HIV doesn't even make news anymore. If the treatments become effective enough that Covid does not kill, or even cause bad enough symptoms to hospitalize people who contract it, the combination of social distancing and effective treatments could be able to get us past this pandemic even without an effective vaccine. Thoughts?

 

[ivanmoe]

USA record today for the "New Cases" at just short of 86,000, time on the data tables was 7:07PM CDT, so it may well increase over the next few hours.

Europe's "curve" looks even worse, with 273K+.

France alone had 47K+.

Germany's Angela Merkel announced that her country's "contact tracing" strategy had collapsed.

Wow

-Moe

Sure enough, the tallies for new cases continued to increase until 8PM CDT.

The final total for the USA was 91,530.

Europe’s increased as well, finishing the date at 279,499.

Again, both are records.

Very difficult to feel good about numbers like that.

-Moe

 

[Go for Broke]

Last week I was shopping in a food market with my adult daughter. A young buck came into the store without a mask. An employee asked him to put on a mask and if he didn't have one they would provide it. The young man got agitated and refused and started cursing. The manage, who is a young man as well came over and tried to reason with him, offered to take a list and bring his food outside. Again the man refused and started threatening. My daughter tried to calm the man down by politely telling him there were old people in the store who could get sick. I wasn't happy that she interfered but I know she meant well. The young man started cursing at my daughter and coming towards us. At that Point I jumped in front of her and told the man that if he came any closer I would consider it an assault and would use my second degree blackbelt in karate on him. Thank goodness he backed down and within a few minutes the cops showed up and escorted him out. I do have a blackbelt but at my age I think my kick would just about reach his groin or knees and I would only get one shot! The point is that some people are looking at this as some kind of repression or conspiracy.

What's funny is, if there was a sign in front of the store that said, "no shirt, no service" that dude would definitely put on a shirt with out question. Wearing a mask is respecting others. If it makes people feel safe, do it. People don't realize how much freedom the USA has.

 

[nysoldiers]

Last week I was shopping in a food market with my adult daughter. A young buck came into the store without a mask. An employee asked him to put on a mask and if he didn't have one they would provide it. The young man got agitated and refused and started cursing. The manage, who is a young man as well came over and tried to reason with him, offered to take a list and bring his food outside. Again the man refused and started threatening. My daughter tried to calm the man down by politely telling him there were old people in the store who could get sick. I wasn't happy that she interfered but I know she meant well. The young man started cursing at my daughter and coming towards us. At that Point I jumped in front of her and told the man that if he came any closer I would consider it an assault and would use my second degree blackbelt in karate on him. Thank goodness he backed down and within a few minutes the cops showed up and escorted him out. I do have a blackbelt but at my age I think my kick would just about reach his groin or knees and I would only get one shot! The point is that some people are looking at this as some kind of repression or conspiracy.

What's funny is, if there was a sign in front of the store that said, "no shirt, no service" that dude would definitely put on a shirt with out question. Wearing a mask is respecting others. If it makes people feel safe, do it. People don't realize how much freedom the USA has.

Very true.....he was wearing a muscle shirt with bulging arms so thankfully he backed off.

 

[nysoldiers]

Rich,

I don't think we can expect a vaccine to save the day until at least 6 months to a year after one is readily available, assuming that a vaccine is effective. That being said, it seems to me, just anecdotally and based on statistics, that treatments for the virus must be becoming more effective. While positive cases are skyrocketing, hospitalizations and deaths are not increasing proportionally. This leads me to believe that medical science is on an effective learning curve with regard to treating the virus. I know its not even apples to oranges (as George likes to say, its apples to hand-grenades), but, in a sense, isn't this a much quicker version of what happened with HIV? In the beginning, getting diagnosed with HIV was a death sentence, and everyone was hoping for a vaccine or cure. Then, over time, medical science developed such effective treatments, that HIV doesn't even make news anymore. If the treatments become effective enough that Covid does not kill, or even cause bad enough symptoms to hospitalize people who contract it, the combination of social distancing and effective treatments could be able to get us past this pandemic even without an effective vaccine. Thoughts?

It is very encouraging that we now have some effective treatments and yes this can keep the death rates down. Unfortunately too many will still die and have lingering health problems. This virus is also known to morph and develop immunities to some treatments.
Even with these new treatments why take a chance when wearing a mask and social distancing are not that difficult. But yes the more therapeutics the better and hopefully the vaccines will be over 80% effective and enough of the population will agree to take them.

 

[jazzeum]

Too much emphasis is being placed on a vaccine as being a panacea; it won’t be. Flu vaccines are only partially efficacious so probably a Covid vaccine won’t be either. In addition, for a vaccine to work it must be accepted and taken by a significant amount of the population and that’s an issue right now.

The other day I heard some news that disturbed me. I used to be a pharma attorney and whenever we made a new product or had one made by a third party, the manufacturing facility had to be inspected by the FDA; this is standard practice. Apparently, the FDA won’t be inspecting the facilities where the Covid vaccines will be manufactured. If correct, this is simply wrong. A plant inspection can disclose deficiencies in GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) that need to be corrected before a product can be made, pass QA (quality assurance) and shipped to third parties.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Too much emphasis is being placed on a vaccine as being a panacea; it won’t be. Flu vaccines are only partially efficacious so probably a Covid vaccine won’t be either. In addition, for a vaccine to work it must be accepted and taken by a significant amount of the population and that’s an issue right now.

The other day I heard some news that disturbed me. I used to be a pharma attorney and whenever we made a new product or had one made by a third party, the manufacturing facility had to be inspected by the FDA; this is standard practice. Apparently, the FDA won’t be inspecting the facilities where the Covid vaccines will be manufactured. If correct, this is simply wrong. A plant inspection can disclose deficiencies in GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) that need to be corrected before a product can be made, pass QA (quality assurance) and shipped to third parties.

Would agree on your assessment of the vaccine regime and your concern is well founded. Let’s be honest here, the FDA know full well stakes are high and the race is on to come up with a so called Covid vaccine and they’re already aware companies are cutting corners and deaths have already occurred during initial vaccine trials. When folks start using the term of the ‘great good’ the public should be wary. No vaccine is ever going to cure Covid and that’s a fact few seem to appreciate or understand,

 

[jazzeum]

Here’s an article about the inspection process as related to Covid.

Some Manufacturing Sites for Covid 19 Vaccines Can Skip Inspections

https://www.biospace.com/article/ma...-covid-19-vaccines-can-skip-fda-inspections-/

I have less of a concern about companies like J & J or Pfizer as they have sophisticated QA organizations but more of one with companies like Moderna whose facilities have never been inspected by the FDA.

 

[bradleyl30]

Sacrificing for the greater good or realizing that what one person does may affect another person seems in short supply these days. Civic responsibility seems to have gone by the wayside. When I first learned in grade school what might called “civics” today, civic responsibility was the backbone of what our teacher imparted. It’s our motto — E Pluribus Unum. We were many but we united to form one country. The many worked together as one. Yes, I know there are some problems with the concept but overall we worked together as one. That idea seems to have gone by the bye.

Isn’t one of the concepts that people forget is that independent US states and people understood the importance of being one and voluntarily united? We realized unity couldn’t be forced, but was critical to our survival. To me this is what’s been forgotten.

Voluntary unity is important and that requires me to make sacrifices and not just demand others make sacrifices.