COVID the 3rd (2 Viewers)

[jazzeum]

You need to look at cases per 100,000 to get a truer picture. The second number is deaths per 100,000. NJ is particularly bad

California 4,224 54
NY 3,938 99
NJ 4,659 202
Florida 5,334 94
Texas 4,766 84

Locked down did help early on but now we are not locked down now. European countries did institute some sort of a lockdown recently and cases did go down. We don’t have a policy, just 50 different policies.

 

[jazzeum]

Positivity rates:

California 12.8
NY 5.2
NJ 7.9
Texas 20.9
Florida 9.4

Of a larger concern is ICU capacity. California’s ICU capacity is very low. Here in NJ, the hospital I use, Morristown Medical, has 110 Covid patients and 28 ICU beds available. The fill capacity is 66%.

See this story for calculating the ICU capacity in your area, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-near-you.html

 

[zblang]

Like everything else in life, I think the best policy is middle ground between lock down and nothing.
Wear masks, limit capacity etc. don’t lock down, but images of crowded bars are cringe worthy

 

[jazzeum]

Like everything else in life, I think the best policy is middle ground between lock down and nothing.
Wear masks, limit capacity etc. don’t lock down, but images of crowded bars are cringe worthy

It’s all common sense.

 

[tdubel]

It’s all common sense.

Yup, i could not agree more.

I will tell you one ironic item personally during this whole mess. I actually felt safer at the 3 Toy Soldier Shows I participated in then going to Lowes and BJS. In all seriousness, there were more people per space at the deli line than the toy soldier show. Ironic isn't it?

What I have not done is crowded indoor dining and drinking. That has been a hard no and will continue to be for me until such a time that there is a normalcy through vaccine, etc.

Tom

 

[tdubel]

One add on , my original point about the numbers is you can look at them 12 ways to Sunday and make a case in many ways/alternate ways, etc.

TD

 

[jazzeum]

Yup, i could not agree more.

I will tell you one ironic item personally during this whole mess. I actually felt safer at the 3 Toy Soldier Shows I participated in then going to Lowes and BJS. In all seriousness, there were more people per space at the deli line than the toy soldier show. Ironic isn't it?

What I have not done is crowded indoor dining and drinking. That has been a hard no and will continue to be for me until such a time that there is a normalcy through vaccine, etc.

Tom

I tend to avoid places that are crowded. My wife and I used to go to estate sales but sometimes the houses are small and there are a lot of people in there. As much as we enjoy it, we didn’t think it was worth the risk.

 

[Louis Badolato]

It’s all common sense.

Unfortunately, not the most common commodity . . . :rolleyes2:

 

[Warrior]

Unfortunately, not the most common commodity . . . :rolleyes2:

If nothing else, this pandemic has taught me that common sense is very uncommon.

My doctor told me if a NATIONAL mask wearing policy had come down in April and we locked down the entire country for two weeks, we'd be out of this mess. Shut EVERYTHING down excluding grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, you are REQUIRED to wear a mask when you go, period.

But, as Brad said, we have 50 states doing 50 different things.

So here we are.

 

[Combat]

If nothing else, this pandemic has taught me that common sense is very uncommon.

My doctor told me if a NATIONAL mask wearing policy had come down in April and we locked down the entire country for two weeks, we'd be out of this mess. Shut EVERYTHING down excluding grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, you are REQUIRED to wear a mask when you go, period.

But, as Brad said, we have 50 states doing 50 different things.

So here we are.

We have had a mandatory mask mandate in PA for months and we now have the most cases since this started. I'm no scientist but that doesn't sound like the solution. Mask wearing likely has a small benefit but many people feel like they can go about their normal business wearing a mask and that encourages them to do things that put them at risk. So it is a tradeoff with minimal net benefits. The vaccine is the only real solution.

 

[marco55]

People are not that clean with their masks. They are all over the parking lots.
Mark

 

[Warrior]

We have had a mandatory mask mandate in PA for months and we now have the most cases since this started. I'm no scientist but that doesn't sound like the solution. Mask wearing likely has a small benefit but many people feel like they can go about their normal business wearing a mask and that encourages them to do things that put them at risk. So it is a tradeoff with minimal net benefits. The vaccine is the only real solution.

Mask wearing has more than a small benefit considering this is an airborne/respiratory virus.

IF we had a national mask wearing policy back in April and locked down the country for two whole weeks, we'd be in much better shape than we are now.

What is driving the numbers is young people getting together and partying, plus people getting together for Thanksgiving and now all the December holidays............and how many parties do you think there will be on NYE?

Here's a small example; the brain dead imbecile who lives next door to me (you know; the moron who had 10 people over for Easter and then he, his wife and his daughter got COVID) has a grandson that lives with him.

EVERY DAY some kid from the neighborhood comes to their house and plays with the grandson; let's say that kid has COVID, now he gives it to the grandson, the mother and the grandparents, one person turns into four, which turns into ten, which turns into thirty, on and on it goes.

Remember; this all started when COVID "escaped " (cough, cough, nudge, nudge, insert your conspiracy theory here) from a lab, ONE person had it and then proceeded to give it to the rest of the world.

A two week lockdown and mandatory mask wearing back in April would have squashed this thing, a minor, two week hassle instead of TEN months and counting of this nonsense.

 

[marco55]

I tend to disagree on the masks George as Jersey and California were one of the first states to wear masks and look at them now. They actually think that 7 times the number of confirmed cases is out there. Now they know it was here 2 weeks before China announced it and in Italy perhaps in September. They know this by testing blood that was given by donors back then. If this is true then it was going through the world before almost (Chinese) anyone knew it existed. Also I just heard that Thanksgiving didn't cause a spike that they thought it would.
Mark

 

[zblang]

There is no way to tell what mask are doing to the numbers. If you have a mask mandate and people don’t follow the rules and numbers go up.... can you really conclude masks don’t work? Nope!

My biggest issue this whole time is masks don’t hurt, so if there is a question (I don’t think there is) - wear the thing!!!!

 

[marco55]

You surly can't say they work. They help but far from solving the problem It's easy to say the spread is from non-wearers but their is no proof of that. It all depends on what doctor you listen to. It will be years before they really know the truth about them. Everybody seems to forget that they said it would come in the colder weather and that it would be worse. I think distancing is the best way to avoid it. In Medieval times the ones that lived in villages or escaped the cities fared better.
Mark

 

[Desertkiwi]

There is no way to tell what mask are doing to the numbers. If you have a mask mandate and people don’t follow the rules and numbers go up.... can you really conclude masks don’t work? Nope!

My biggest issue this whole time is masks don’t hurt, so if there is a question (I don’t think there is) - wear the thing!!!!

They do hurt, they restrict your airways for starters and force you to reabsorb your own Co2.

I've had to wear them for up to 10hr shifts at times and they caused me and other colleagues headaches and dizziness, not to mention constantly feelings of nauseous.

The only time we were permitted to remove them was while eating.

We absolutely hated wearing them.

While I understand the push to wear face masks, they're not healthy in the slightest.

Social distancing is far more effective.

 

[Warrior]

I tend to disagree on the masks George as Jersey and California were one of the first states to wear masks and look at them now. They actually think that 7 times the number of confirmed cases is out there. Now they know it was here 2 weeks before China announced it and in Italy perhaps in September. They know this by testing blood that was given by donors back then. If this is true then it was going through the world before almost (Chinese) anyone knew it existed. Also I just heard that Thanksgiving didn't cause a spike that they thought it would.
Mark

We can go round and round all day long and twice on Sunday about masks and do they work; I've had two doctors tell me strait up if we started wearing masks back in April and had a two week lockdown the pandemic in this country would have basically been squashed, so that's what I'm going by, the word of two doctors I know, one of whom has been in the front lines during this mess from the beginning.

And she backs your point about this virus being in the country for a year now/last December, she said people were coming into the hospital in January and February with flu like symptoms and they had no clue what they were really suffering from.

January and February are shaping up to be a real ****show, so strap yourself in.

 

[Warrior]

They do hurt, they restrict your airways for starters and force you to reabsorb your own Co2.

I've had to wear them for up to 10hr shifts at times and they caused me and other colleagues headaches and dizziness, not to mention constantly feelings of nauseous.

The only time we were permitted to remove them was while eating.

We absolutely hated wearing them.

While I understand the push to wear face masks, they're not healthy in the slightest.

Social distancing is far more effective.

Well that's all well and good about social distancing, but it's hard to do at work, on the street, at the post office, grocery store or any retail store I've been in.

No disrespect, but you sound like my cousin, he goes on and on about how bad masks are for you, how more people died during the Spanish flu from infections caused by masks vs the actual flu, how he only wears one "at his families insistence" when he goes out in public and how he's not getting the COVID shot as he has never had the flu shot and hasn't had the flu in 15 years.

It's that sort of thinking that will keep COVID around for years to come, but as I always tell him "Well, then you just keep being you then"...........................

 

[zblang]

If they were so awful, surgeons would be shaking and passing out during operations. To each his own I guess

 

[marco55]

I think they change their equipment quite often and they are in a clean environment as they are always sanitizing their tools. Women I know that work at doctor's offices and they change their PPE after every patient and one of them got covid.
Mark